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Who do we want in the final then?


Sugar Ape
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Who do we want in the final?  

87 members have voted

  1. 1. Who do we want in the final?


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  • Poll closed on 08/05/19 at 21:30

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16 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

You haven’t answered the question though have you. Do you only judge players you like on current form? Seems if you don’t like a player current form is not a way to judge , as it fluctuates, your words. Now this is regarding AOC, if you judged Lovren on fluctuating form you’d be flucked.

I’m not sure what the question is, I said that I found it difficult to judge a player just based on current form. AOC isn’t the best player to use to disprove this as I’ve been quite consistent with him irrespective of form. 

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2 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

I’m not sure what the question is, I find it difficult to judge a player just based on current form. AOC isn’t the best player to use to disprove this as I’ve been quite consistent with him regardless of form. 

You said you didn’t like to judge Matip on current form as you don’t judge on current form as it fluctuates. Correct? Yes it is. You said it. No problem.

 

I asked if you felt judging AOC on his form last year before injury was fair. You judged him as our best midfielder, did this season when he wasn’t even playing. 

Now i know an injured player cannot be judged on form but before he got into the side after Coutinho left his sporadic appearances showed very little of anything.

Yet a few games, current form, had you naming him our best midfielder. 

So you judged him on current form did you not.

Not interested in your thoughts on him at Arsenal or before we signed him.

The question is simple and won’t be asked again, you judged one player on current form as you like him, yet current form cannot be used to judge another player. Because it fluctuates or because you don’t like him.

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16 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

You said you didn’t like to judge Matip on current form as you don’t judge on current form as it fluctuates. Correct? Yes it is. You said it. No problem.

 

I asked if you felt judging AOC on his form last year before injury was fair. You judged him as our best midfielder, did this season when he wasn’t even playing. 

Now i know an injured player cannot be judged on form but before he got into the side after Coutinho left his sporadic appearances showed very little of anything.

Yet a few games, current form, had you naming him our best midfielder. 

So you judged him on current form did you not.

Not interested in your thoughts on him at Arsenal or before we signed him.

The question is simple and won’t be asked again, you judged one player on current form as you like him, yet current form cannot be used to judge another player. Because it fluctuates or because you don’t like him.

I’ve rated Ox highly since before he even moved to us, is my point. I’d suggest you pick another player as an example.

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22 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

You said you didn’t like to judge Matip on current form as you don’t judge on current form as it fluctuates. Correct? Yes it is. You said it. No problem.

 

I asked if you felt judging AOC on his form last year before injury was fair. You judged him as our best midfielder, did this season when he wasn’t even playing. 

Now i know an injured player cannot be judged on form but before he got into the side after Coutinho left his sporadic appearances showed very little of anything.

Yet a few games, current form, had you naming him our best midfielder. 

So you judged him on current form did you not.

Not interested in your thoughts on him at Arsenal or before we signed him.

The question is simple and won’t be asked again, you judged one player on current form as you like him, yet current form cannot be used to judge another player. Because it fluctuates or because you don’t like him.

This is exhilarating bantz. 

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17 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

No you’re ok. You answered the question by not answering it. Have a nice day.

Hahaha!

I don’t understand how you could think that Ox would be a good player for you to use to disprove my point on not judging players based on current form. I’ve always rated Ox!

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59 minutes ago, janmolby said:

Lovren has a catastrophic error in him every single game. Even more likely with him being out for such a spell.

 

The more Matip plays the more he looks like when we first brought him here. Confident and assured. He's playing on merit at the moment and Gomez's return is too late to for me for him to warrant a start. The CB partnership on Sunday Will likely point to the starters for the final. 

 

Assuming everyone is fit I only think there is one maybe two choices to be made for that starting eleven who partners Fabhino in the middle of the park.

I would be amazed if it isn't Ginni and Henderson.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

Transfermarkt is great for stats, and especially for the different positions players play each season. It’s pretty much bang on for that. 

 

Fucking beyond useless for player values though. 

I’d take other sources. 

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3 hours ago, viRdjil said:

Lovren has a higher ceiling IMO. Not that controversial opinion. Matip started the season as 4th choice mate. Regardless, I think he should start the final if fit.

Risible

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Taken the shine off it by having to play Spurs. The risk/reward balance is too great, the teams are too familiar with each other and it'll end up feeling like a league game.

 

I also worry  about the law of averages, we've beaten Spurs twice this year and the likelihood of a third doesn't seem high. Was looking forward to three weeks of build-up against Ajax and now I'm just fucking worried.

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1 minute ago, viRdjil said:

Go on VD pick another player.

You said you don’t judge players on current form as it fluctuates

 

You rate Lovren better than Matip yet on current form you say Matip stays in the team. Correct?

 

You obviously think Lovren is better. Correct? Why does current form come into it.

 

You don’t judge on current form.

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2 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

You said you don’t judge players on current form as it fluctuates

 

You rate Lovren better than Matip yet on current form you say Matip stays in the team. Correct?

 

You obviously think Lovren is better. Correct? Why does current form come into it.

 

You don’t judge on current form.

I try not to let current form cloud my judgement of a player’s true ability, that is correct. I think that’s a fair shout. Matip doesn’t deserve to be dropped though.

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3 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Matip had a good start to his first season then really struggled in the second half after his injury IIRC. When both are fit and firing Lovren is a better defender. I’m far from the only one, I think even Jurgen Klopp seems to agree. Had Lovren been fit at the start of the season, Matip probably wouldn’t have got a look in. We both listen to TAW podcast and they generally agree with me too. It’s not that controversial, they’ve both done well for us at different times in the past couple of years but neither is really in conversation for the best defenders in the world, etc. 

Lovren is fit now. Matip is playing. Gomez is fit now. Matip is playing. Probably not best to attempt an appeal to authority on this one. And no, Lovren isn't even close to being better than Matip. You just need eyes to see that. You seem to rely on the 'TAW say this' or 'Transfermarkt say this' a lot. I think you need to listen to TAW more closely because they were ragging on Lovren for being shit and needing to be sold just a few days ago. Even if they didn't, I don't care. He's shit. 

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1 minute ago, viRdjil said:

I try not to let current form cloud my judgement of a player’s true ability, that is correct. 

But but but you think on current form Matip should play before Lovren

 

You don’t and have never rated Matip, yet now on current form( that you don’t judge) he starts ahead of Lovren.

 

Have you considered entering the political arena.

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4 minutes ago, RedKnight said:

Oh we're arguing about centre backs instead. Cool cool cool cool.

I mistakenly thought it was the thread about our opponents in the final! Thought I’d clicked on the wrong thread...

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2 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

But but but you think on current form Matip should play before Lovren

 

You don’t and have never rated Matip, yet now on current form( that you don’t judge) he starts ahead of Lovren.

 

Have you considered entering the political arena.

If someone is in a run of good form, then he shouldn’t be dropped. It’s pretty simple. That has little to do with ceiling.

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Genuinely can't believe anyone is arguing that Lovren is a better defender than Matip. Or Gomez, for that matter.

 

Any suggestion that Lovren should play in any of our remaining games is borderline insane. It didn't matter because they are terrible and didn't take advantage but even against Huddersfield he committed a horrific error.

 

Imagine him in the CL final against Spurs, doing what he did against them a few years back when we had to sub him before halftime. It could be worse than Karius last year. Who on earth would wish anything like that on this club?

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6 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Lovren is fit now. Matip is playing. Gomez is fit now. Matip is playing. Probably not best to attempt an appeal to authority on this one. And no, Lovren isn't even close to being better than Matip. You just need eyes to see that. You seem to rely on the 'TAW say this' or 'Transfermarkt say this' a lot. I think you need to listen to TAW more closely because they were ragging on Lovren for being shit and needing to be sold just a few days ago. Even if they didn't, I don't care. He's shit. 

Lovren is a better defender than Matip when they’re both fit and firing IMO. However Matip has been playing well in his absence and I don’t think he should be dropped. I don’t see how that’s such a controversial stance.

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