Jump to content
  • Sign up for free and receive a month's subscription

    You are viewing this page as a guest. That means you are either a member who has not logged in, or you have not yet registered with us. Signing up for an account only takes a minute and it means you will no longer see this annoying box! It will also allow you to get involved with our friendly(ish!) community and take part in the discussions on our forums. And because we're feeling generous, if you sign up for a free account we will give you a month's free trial access to our subscriber only content with no obligation to commit. Register an account and then send a private message to @dave u and he'll hook you up with a subscription.

Christchurch Mosque shootings


Jose Jones
 Share

Recommended Posts

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/15/islamophobia-christchurch-shooting-anti-muslim-bigotry-new-zealand

 

Do not be under any illusion. The attacks against Muslims in New Zealand cannot be swept under the carpet by claiming that the suspect is an isolated actor or a disturbed individual. From what I have seen, the threat is far more serious than that – and the responsibility for facing up to it falls on all of us. The kind of Islamophobia that appears to have driven these killings goes far beyond some radicalised individual. It’s a thread that runs throughout the west – and we must confront it, now.

The temptation is going to be to declare the suspect, who livestreamed himself on Facebook shooting dozens of Muslims while they gathered for Friday prayer, a madman. It would be comforting to think so. Because then we could put aside any recognition that the discourse he appears to have bought into, evident from the manifesto he posted a link to on his now-deleted Twitter account, goes far beyond simply him.

But that would be a mistake. The themes of that manifesto – that Muslims are invaders, intent on replacing the white majority in Europe and the west – are indelibly linked to others on the far right, such as Anders Breivik, who went on his own murderous rampage in 2011 in Norway. But it has a long pedigree in western societies and is not restricted to the political fringes.

 

After the 7 July bombings happened in London in 2005, I was appointed as deputy convenor of a UK government working group on radicalisation to look at precisely which factors led to people becoming swept up in extremism. We examined the role of ideas and ideology, and concluded that they played a significant part – that we could not simply cast aside the importance of extremist discourse and dogma. There were, and are, other factors: political dissent, exclusion, and so on – but it would be wrong to minimise the extent to which ideas energised people, and provided their rationalisation for violent acts.

 

By the same token, it would be outrageous to fail to recognise that the unbridled, nativistic, anti-Muslim bigotry that has become so widespread in our societies has nothing to do with this attack in New Zealand. New Zealandis a part of the west. And, as far as the manifesto is concerned, the west writ large is subject to a Muslim invasion. That sentiment is not limited to a far-right extremist with a gun in a mosque, killing Muslim worshippers. It is popularised by scores of people in far more mainstream arenas.

 

Every time some far-right populist promotes the idea that Muslims are a threat to our civilisation, this feeds into a climate in which the views espoused by the manifesto are seen as less extreme. And every time we deny the threat of anti-Muslim bigotry, or underestimate the extent of Islamophobia – including in our party of government, the Conservative party– we give succour to those in our society who seek to whip up hate against our Muslim communities.

 

Today is Friday. It is the day of the week when Muslims will gather all around the world in communitarian prayer. Many of them in the west will be fearful after seeing the news, worried that this attack may herald a new, ongoing threat to their safety. We have to make sure they know they are not alone. That wider society will stand by them. That we see them not as Muslim communities transplanted into the west, but as Muslim communities of the west. They are part of us, and we of them. If we do otherwise, and we allow this event to pass us by without recognising the ideas that propelled it, then it is only a matter of time before it is repeated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah - that article makes important points. Jacinda Ardern has been brilliant over the weekend, in the wake of the massacre, reaching out to the local Muslim community, right in the front line, showing just what a hugely compassionate heart she has.

 

The question is, will her unwavering love and empathy for this country, be enough to turn a broken system around, to be all inclusive? 

 

Her Coalition is very finely balanced, and (probably) under Winston Peters’ directive, the immigration minister has moved to reduce immigration by 600 a month, as of earlier this month, There was was no public announcement about it, which has them being roundly critizised. 

 

Kiwis are hurting. Inflation is rampant in food and housing in particular. We have 40,000 homeless, and disappearing jobs.

 

Most people accept the refugee programme (1500 with a view to increasing for Syrians) which is one of the best repatriation schemes in the world, and THATS the problem, that the bubbling undercurrent of disenfranchised low wage folks are upset about. The refugees get re-oriented, housed and in many cases, jobs (those that dont get all state benefits with extras), and absolutely THEY SHOULD. However, there are calls to address the poverty of Kiwis, as aggressively as the refugee policy, and I think that it needs to happen quickly to show more solidarity for our nation. 

 

The government has its work cut out providing for its people, after 9 years of a rampant free market government, and little or no wage growth.

 

Personally, I’m a great believer in the free movement of people and ideas across this world. Unity in diversity must be the catchcry. 

 

Hopefully politicians like Jacinda can step up and show the world how commited compassionate government can reshape broken societies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, TK421 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/15/islamophobia-christchurch-shooting-anti-muslim-bigotry-new-zealand

 

Do not be under any illusion. The attacks against Muslims in New Zealand cannot be swept under the carpet by claiming that the suspect is an isolated actor or a disturbed individual. From what I have seen, the threat is far more serious than that – and the responsibility for facing up to it falls on all of us. The kind of Islamophobia that appears to have driven these killings goes far beyond some radicalised individual. It’s a thread that runs throughout the west – and we must confront it, now.

The temptation is going to be to declare the suspect, who livestreamed himself on Facebook shooting dozens of Muslims while they gathered for Friday prayer, a madman. It would be comforting to think so. Because then we could put aside any recognition that the discourse he appears to have bought into, evident from the manifesto he posted a link to on his now-deleted Twitter account, goes far beyond simply him.

But that would be a mistake. The themes of that manifesto – that Muslims are invaders, intent on replacing the white majority in Europe and the west – are indelibly linked to others on the far right, such as Anders Breivik, who went on his own murderous rampage in 2011 in Norway. But it has a long pedigree in western societies and is not restricted to the political fringes.

 

After the 7 July bombings happened in London in 2005, I was appointed as deputy convenor of a UK government working group on radicalisation to look at precisely which factors led to people becoming swept up in extremism. We examined the role of ideas and ideology, and concluded that they played a significant part – that we could not simply cast aside the importance of extremist discourse and dogma. There were, and are, other factors: political dissent, exclusion, and so on – but it would be wrong to minimise the extent to which ideas energised people, and provided their rationalisation for violent acts.

 

By the same token, it would be outrageous to fail to recognise that the unbridled, nativistic, anti-Muslim bigotry that has become so widespread in our societies has nothing to do with this attack in New Zealand. New Zealandis a part of the west. And, as far as the manifesto is concerned, the west writ large is subject to a Muslim invasion. That sentiment is not limited to a far-right extremist with a gun in a mosque, killing Muslim worshippers. It is popularised by scores of people in far more mainstream arenas.

 

Every time some far-right populist promotes the idea that Muslims are a threat to our civilisation, this feeds into a climate in which the views espoused by the manifesto are seen as less extreme. And every time we deny the threat of anti-Muslim bigotry, or underestimate the extent of Islamophobia – including in our party of government, the Conservative party– we give succour to those in our society who seek to whip up hate against our Muslim communities.

 

Today is Friday. It is the day of the week when Muslims will gather all around the world in communitarian prayer. Many of them in the west will be fearful after seeing the news, worried that this attack may herald a new, ongoing threat to their safety. We have to make sure they know they are not alone. That wider society will stand by them. That we see them not as Muslim communities transplanted into the west, but as Muslim communities of the west. They are part of us, and we of them. If we do otherwise, and we allow this event to pass us by without recognising the ideas that propelled it, then it is only a matter of time before it is repeated.

Katie Hopkins, Julia Hartley-Brewer, Rod Liddle, Melanie Williams....can't possibly think why those names come into my head.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought the sharing of the video to be horrible but the story one lad might get 14 years in prison is absurd. If true it's the state completely over reacting and in my opinion an abuse of power.  Sharing the video was in bad taste, a fine, community service maybe but to lose your freedom would be bullshit. Maybe if you continue to spread such things after you've already been prosecuted previously for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I thought the sharing of the video to be horrible but the story one lad might get 14 years in prison is absurd. If true it's the state completely over reacting and in my opinion an abuse of power.  Sharing the video was in bad taste, a fine, community service maybe but to lose your freedom would be bullshit. Maybe if you continue to spread such things after you've already been prosecuted previously for it.

What is he being charged with? If it's something to do with publishing terrorist propaganda (which, let's face it, is exactly what anyone sharing the video online is doing, irrespective of their intent) then it makes sense to have a hefty maximum sentence.

 

Whatever this lad gets charged with and whatever verdict and sentence comes out at the end, we'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, I'm not losing any sleep for the daft twat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Utrecht now 3 dead and 9 injured. When it was just 1 dead it could easily just be a drug related hit but looking possibly more sinister now. 


As in drug deal gone bad and a rival gang escaping in their pimped up tram?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

The shooting was on the tram then escape by car. Drug dealers shooting each other dead is far more common than any terrorism over here. 

 

I get that, but the first reports said the shooting took place on a tram and that several people were injured which would probably immediately rule out gangs and dealers. 

EDIT Now they are saying he may have been shooting at a specific woman, and possibly not terrorism related. Previously reported he was on some islamist /jihadi list.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...