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Summer 2019 Transfer Thread

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Just now, TheHowieLama said:

You may not be familiar with "best player available". It is a strategy used in all sports. I think what you would consider reactive is actually well thought out.

I'm not saying we didn't want or rate alisson. Just getting a goalie was not important to us. When no money was there, the echo had spent months preparing for a no karius replacement, which is effectively club propaganda. 

 

Was origi staying a well thought out plan then? 

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3 minutes ago, Seasons said:

Do we though? Or is he just selective? 

 

For instance, if I went into a sweet shop and wanted some chocolate, something jelly-based and a drink, I might go in and think actually, I only have £1.50. So I might buy the chocolate instead as it's £1 and the drink for 50p but think, I'll come back for you Haribo but not tell anyone. Now to the shopkeeper - who I told what I was coming in for weirdly - it looks like I was reactive but really, I'll come back for the Haribo when I steal some money out of my ma's purse. That could be next week or next month. 

 

Does that make me reactive? Or is it a long-term strategy to get all the sweets I'd like? 

Haribo reads too like Hendo on my screen for a start! 

 

But anyway, the last I'll say on it all reactive- "acting in response to a situation rather than creating or controlling it."

 

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6 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

I'm not saying we didn't want or rate alisson. Just getting a goalie was not important to us. When no money was there, the echo had spent months preparing for a no karius replacement, which is effectively club propaganda. 

 

Was origi staying a well thought out plan then? 

My guess is it was very important to us - like probably the second most pressing need in Klopps view, and that has been proven true.

Certainly there has been a shift in what the club "puts out". Not sure any of it should be taken as gospel - especially transfer stuff.

 

I do not think it makes sense to suggest that a player refusing a move has anything to do with Klopp or the clubs strategy. There is no way to creating or control it.

TBH they probably would have liked to have sold Markovic at some point don't you think?

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5 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

I'm not saying we didn't want or rate alisson. Just getting a goalie was not important to us. When no money was there, the echo had spent months preparing for a no karius replacement, which is effectively club propaganda. 

It's perfectly plausible that Klopp thought he would give Karius another chance to prove himself in pre-season, didn't like what he saw and then decided to pull the plug on the Fekir deal in order to sign Alisson, which would put him in full control of the situation rather than being reactive.

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6 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

My guess is it was very important to us - like probably the second most pressing need in Klopps view, and that has been proven true.

Certainly there has been a shift in what the club "puts out". Not sure any of it should be taken as gospel - especially transfer stuff.

 

I do not think it makes sense to suggest that a player refusing a move has anything to do with Klopp or the clubs strategy. There is no way to creating or control it.

TBH they probably would have liked to have sold Markovic at some point don't you think?

Of course they wanted to sell markovic. They were right to do so. I'd actually say they were right to try and sell origi, I realise that's not a popular point of view now he's some type of cult hero. But origi is being out up as a "getting the big decisions right". My point is klopp didn't make that decision. His decision (along with Edwards) was to sell. Klopp was later shown to be the fine manager he is by getting the absolute maximum out of a player he not only wanted to sell, the player himself knew was not wanted. 

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8 minutes ago, TK421 said:

It's perfectly plausible that Klopp thought he would give Karius another chance to prove himself in pre-season, didn't like what he saw and then decided to pull the plug on the Fekir deal in order to sign Alisson, which would put him in full control of the situation rather than being reactive.

Do you really think judging karius on a pre season match at Tranmere , rather than watching his work over the previous 2 seasons goes against this idea of everything is a long term master plan and nothing is short termism? Honestly, I think klopps ability to work long and short term, to be proactive as well as relative is why he's one of the finest managers around. He does it all, that's why we're lucky to have him.

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3 hours ago, Barry Wom said:

This number 6 buys Boston 2 summers of fucking about scaling back the wage bill. Because all we'll get is shite like "but we won number 6, we must be smarter than everyone else and we've never got a thing wrong". We are a money making machine for our owners who on occasion may win something. Our endeavour to exist to win trophies is clearly a massive thing of the past, I don't see why and how that can be argued. 

I know that you're a WUM and should really just be ignored, but this statement is just typical of the whole troll oeuvre you've cultivated on this forum.

 

*says something ludicrous, or at the very least highly controversial*

"this is clearly a fact, don't even bother arguing"

*proceeds as if he's no established an incontrovertible argument and then proceeds to base even further arguments on this bedrock*

 

You've done it so many times now that it's kind of your signature move.

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46 minutes ago, moof said:

Take your own advice dickhead 

 

People had different opinions and were debating them. 

 

You came in and started acting the cunt. 

 

It obvious who needs to take some advice. 

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5 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

 But origi is being out up as a "getting the big decisions right". My point is klopp didn't make that decision. His decision (along with Edwards) was to sell. Klopp was later shown to be the fine manager he is by getting the absolute maximum out of a player he not only wanted to sell, the player himself knew was not wanted. 

Origi would not be touted by anyone as getting the "big decisions" right in any other discussion but you suggesting the overriding philosophy of the club is reactive.

 

Both are equally untrue.

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1 minute ago, Barry Wom said:

Do you really think judging karius on a pre season match at Tranmere , rather than watching his work over the previous 2 seasons goes against this idea of everything is a long term master plan and nothing is short termism? Honestly, I think klopps ability to work long and short term, to be proactive as well as relative is why he's one of the finest managers around. He does it all, that's why we're lucky to have him.

No to your question but that's not what I said.  Besides, there was still time to find an alternative to Fekir but he decided to sign a goalkeeper instead.  I don't see what is reactive about that, it just seems like a good contingency in the circumstances. 

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Just now, Ne Moe Imya said:

I know that you're a WUM and should really just be ignored, but this statement is just typical of the whole troll oeuvre you've cultivated on this forum.

 

*says something ludicrous, or at the very least highly controversial*

"this is clearly a fact, don't even bother arguing"

*proceeds as if he's no established an incontrovertible argument and then proceeds to base even further arguments on this bedrock*

 

You've done it so many times now that it's kind of your signature move.

This statement only winds up those who still believe we exist to win trophies. Those of us who realise we exist to increase the capital value of the club do not get wound up about such things. It would be like if I walked into my living room and said "there's no father Christmas". My kids would be upset and would say I am teasing them, but it would be no shock to the adults in the room. 

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3 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I know that you're a WUM and should really just be ignored, but this statement is just typical of the whole troll oeuvre you've cultivated on this forum.

 

*says something ludicrous, or at the very least highly controversial*

"this is clearly a fact, don't even bother arguing"

*proceeds as if he's no established an incontrovertible argument and then proceeds to base even further arguments on this bedrock*

 

You've done it so many times now that it's kind of your signature move.

Barry is Wom, not wum.  I don't agree with him on everything but he speaks from the heart, no doubts there.  

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1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

Origi would not be touted by anyone as getting the "big decisions" right in any other discussion but you suggesting the overriding philosophy of the club is reactive.

 

Both are equally untrue.

I am absolutely not saying our overall philosophy is reactive. I am just pointing out what seems obvious to me, not all that we do is part of a large long term plan. Any successful business will have a long term strategy , but will need to operate tactically in the short term to respond to market conditions. I feel klopp is a master at being able to do that and I think many of his choices he will have barely considered before the option is in front of him. 

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The club exists to earn money. As much as anyone wishes that wasn't true it unfortunately is. FSG are happy if we happen to win a couple of trophies along the way but ultimately they are only in it for the money. I wouldn't think they'd even hide from that fact.

 

Modern football is shit and we're just wed to it through our collective passion and we can never escape. Winning a few things makes it more palatable. 

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5 minutes ago, TK421 said:

No to your question but that's not what I said.  Besides, there was still time to find an alternative to Fekir but he decided to sign a goalkeeper instead.  I don't see what is reactive about that, it just seems like a good contingency in the circumstances. 

There was still time to sign an alternative to fekir. But klopp reacted to the situation (which by the way I think was just how badly karius was doing in that preseason) and thought "this fekir injury issue gets me out of the shit we're in in goal". There was even talk at the time (although I don't know how true) that the senior players lobbied klopp to bomb karius after that photo shoot he did (I think that was a Paul Joyce story), when they felt after that had happened in Kiev it was time to get his head down and work hard. Again if there's truth to that, it is reactive. I seem to be in a minority that being reactive is not some type of insult. For me it is an absolutely crucial skill and every bit as important as being able to be proactive and work to a long term plan.

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1 minute ago, Barry Wom said:

I am absolutely not saying our overall philosophy is reactive. I am just pointing out what seems obvious to me, not all that we do is part of a large long term plan. Any successful business will have a long term strategy , but will need to operate tactically in the short term to respond to market conditions. I feel klopp is a master at being able to do that and I think many of his choices he will have barely considered before the option is in front of him. 

I think you are underestimating the people involved in addition to Klopp. I think they are pretty good at their jobs as well.

 

TBH I am not sure there is any reason to discuss the " we don't exist to win trophies anyMoores". It is a silly, silly suggestion.

 

Hah -- see what I did there!!

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15 minutes ago, TK421 said:

No to your question but that's not what I said.  Besides, there was still time to find an alternative to Fekir but he decided to sign a goalkeeper instead.  I don't see what is reactive about that, it just seems like a good contingency in the circumstances. 

But we seem to of completely abandoned that alternative/replacement...   Klopp reacts to situations just like all good managers do, don't think that classes him as a "reactive" manager though

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1 minute ago, Barry Wom said:

There was still time to sign an alternative to fekir. But klopp reacted to the situation (which by the way I think was just how badly karius was doing in that preseason) and thought "this fekir injury issue gets me out of the shit we're in in goal". There was even talk at the time (although I don't know how true) that the senior players lobbied klopp to bomb karius after that photo shoot he did (I think that was a Paul Joyce story), when they felt after that had happened in Kiev it was time to get his head down and work hard. Again if there's truth to that, it is reactive. I seem to be in a minority that being reactive is not some type of insult. For me it is an absolutely crucial skill and every bit as important as being able to be proactive and work to a long term plan.

You may well be right but it's still plausible that the contingency plan all along was to sign a goalkeeper in the event that the Fekir transfer collapsed.  

 

I take your point that being reactive can be a positive trait.

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7 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

This statement only winds up those who still believe we exist to win trophies. Those of us who realise we exist to increase the capital value of the club do not get wound up about such things. It would be like if I walked into my living room and said "there's no father Christmas". My kids would be upset and would say I am teasing them, but it would be no shock to the adults in the room. 

Wow - you come up with some crap on here

 

You appear to have some insight into what's going on in the club, but the constant miserabilist interpretation of everything that's going on is incredibly wearing

 

Why can't you take people at their word? Klopp says he didn't need cover and that we couldn't improve the first team without spending £150m - that sounds reasonable to me and consistent with his overall approach.

 

FSG have said they want to win things and that the money is there to support that. That's consistent with their approach as competitive US sports owners and not inconsistent with improving the value of their asset - aiming to do both just makes sense.

 

Apart from anything else, choosing to take a contrary view just makes you miserable and antagonistic. Why the hell do it? 

 

We've got the best team and manager we've had in decades, we've just won the Champions League and we're well set up to challenge for the PL. Stop finding reasons to sabotage your enjoyment and join the rest of us in enjoying the ride.

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The club exists to operate as a business. 

Profits are a vital part of a successful business. 

Players exist to earn grand sums of money. 

Spectators exist because football offers escapism from their realities. 

The industry exists by facilitating the myth that spectators are vital to clubs. 

Clubs and the industry exist to exploit such spectators. 

The whole cycle of football is to keep things irrational. 

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1 minute ago, TK421 said:

You may well be right but it's still plausible that the contingency plan all along was to sign a goalkeeper in the event that the Fekir transfer collapsed.  

 

I take your point that being reactive can be a positive trait.

It might have been the plan, but I don't feel it was. But anyway , good discussion.

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5 minutes ago, Seasons said:

The club exists to operate as a business. 

Profits are a vital part of a successful business. 

Players exist to earn grand sums of money. 

Spectators exist because football offers escapism from their realities. 

The industry exists by facilitating the myth that spectators are vital to clubs. 

Clubs and the industry exist to exploit such spectators. 

The whole cycle of football is to keep things irrational. 

The club is, and always has been a very profitable business -- probably moreso 30 or 40 years ago.

Successful businesses are supposed to be profitable.

This is the first time I can remember that LFC can be considered to be successful on and off the field.

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2 minutes ago, Scrump said:

Wow - you come up with some crap on here

 

You appear to have some insight into what's going on in the club, but the constant miserabilist interpretation of everything that's going on is incredibly wearing

 

Why can't you take people at their word? Klopp says he didn't need cover and that we couldn't improve the first team without spending £150m - that sounds reasonable to me and consistent with his overall approach.

 

FSG have said they want to win things and that the money is there to support that. That's consistent with their approach as competitive US sports owners and not inconsistent with improving the value of their asset - aiming to do both just makes sense.

 

Apart from anything else, choosing to take a contrary view just makes you miserable and antagonistic. Why the hell do it? 

 

We've got the best team and manager we've had in decades, we've just won the Champions League and we're well set up to challenge for the PL. Stop finding reasons to sabotage your enjoyment and join the rest of us in enjoying the ride.

So firstly I'll address the last 2 paragraphs. I am both antagonistic and miserable. So I don't "do it" it is my personality. You have an ignore feature, if you don't want to read what I post, put me on ignore.

 

As for we're well set up to challenge for the PL, well I would argue with that point of view. We are at least one defender and one attacker short in my opinion. If lovren goes, make that 2 defenders. That is why we come on here, to discuss these things. I'm glad for you you think it couldn't be better. I think our first XI can match almost anyone, but our drop off at the back and in the forward positions is massive. We are well set up to lead the pack behind city, I think it takes a miracle to compete as we did last season.

 

As for why don't I trust our owners when they say the money is there is pretty simple. I've been hearing American owners tell us that since 2007. I'm yet to see any evidence of it. We've spent net a out 75m since klopp joined the club. These owners are not here to invest in our enjoyment. They are an investment group. They are very open and said their aim is to grow the capital value of the club and I've not seen any evidence to question that. I do see evidence to question "the money is there " idea. 1. Because we never show it is unless we sell. 2. Our manager told us the money isn't there, because we spent it last year. But he also told us what we spent last year was covered in point 1. 

 

And you have the cheek to tell me I talk some crap, when you think we have to spend 150m to improve us. Do you think not one player sold this summer would improve our squad? Yet not one of them has gone for 150m.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Barry Wom said:

I think it takes a miracle to compete as we did last season.

 

 

 

We lost last season Baz - so we need a miracle AND 150 mil - what kind of fool would listen to that?

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