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Summer 2019 Transfer Thread


Anubis
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5 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

 But origi is being out up as a "getting the big decisions right". My point is klopp didn't make that decision. His decision (along with Edwards) was to sell. Klopp was later shown to be the fine manager he is by getting the absolute maximum out of a player he not only wanted to sell, the player himself knew was not wanted. 

Origi would not be touted by anyone as getting the "big decisions" right in any other discussion but you suggesting the overriding philosophy of the club is reactive.

 

Both are equally untrue.

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1 minute ago, Barry Wom said:

Do you really think judging karius on a pre season match at Tranmere , rather than watching his work over the previous 2 seasons goes against this idea of everything is a long term master plan and nothing is short termism? Honestly, I think klopps ability to work long and short term, to be proactive as well as relative is why he's one of the finest managers around. He does it all, that's why we're lucky to have him.

No to your question but that's not what I said.  Besides, there was still time to find an alternative to Fekir but he decided to sign a goalkeeper instead.  I don't see what is reactive about that, it just seems like a good contingency in the circumstances. 

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Just now, Ne Moe Imya said:

I know that you're a WUM and should really just be ignored, but this statement is just typical of the whole troll oeuvre you've cultivated on this forum.

 

*says something ludicrous, or at the very least highly controversial*

"this is clearly a fact, don't even bother arguing"

*proceeds as if he's no established an incontrovertible argument and then proceeds to base even further arguments on this bedrock*

 

You've done it so many times now that it's kind of your signature move.

This statement only winds up those who still believe we exist to win trophies. Those of us who realise we exist to increase the capital value of the club do not get wound up about such things. It would be like if I walked into my living room and said "there's no father Christmas". My kids would be upset and would say I am teasing them, but it would be no shock to the adults in the room. 

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3 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I know that you're a WUM and should really just be ignored, but this statement is just typical of the whole troll oeuvre you've cultivated on this forum.

 

*says something ludicrous, or at the very least highly controversial*

"this is clearly a fact, don't even bother arguing"

*proceeds as if he's no established an incontrovertible argument and then proceeds to base even further arguments on this bedrock*

 

You've done it so many times now that it's kind of your signature move.

Barry is Wom, not wum.  I don't agree with him on everything but he speaks from the heart, no doubts there.  

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1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

Origi would not be touted by anyone as getting the "big decisions" right in any other discussion but you suggesting the overriding philosophy of the club is reactive.

 

Both are equally untrue.

I am absolutely not saying our overall philosophy is reactive. I am just pointing out what seems obvious to me, not all that we do is part of a large long term plan. Any successful business will have a long term strategy , but will need to operate tactically in the short term to respond to market conditions. I feel klopp is a master at being able to do that and I think many of his choices he will have barely considered before the option is in front of him. 

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The club exists to earn money. As much as anyone wishes that wasn't true it unfortunately is. FSG are happy if we happen to win a couple of trophies along the way but ultimately they are only in it for the money. I wouldn't think they'd even hide from that fact.

 

Modern football is shit and we're just wed to it through our collective passion and we can never escape. Winning a few things makes it more palatable. 

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5 minutes ago, TK421 said:

No to your question but that's not what I said.  Besides, there was still time to find an alternative to Fekir but he decided to sign a goalkeeper instead.  I don't see what is reactive about that, it just seems like a good contingency in the circumstances. 

There was still time to sign an alternative to fekir. But klopp reacted to the situation (which by the way I think was just how badly karius was doing in that preseason) and thought "this fekir injury issue gets me out of the shit we're in in goal". There was even talk at the time (although I don't know how true) that the senior players lobbied klopp to bomb karius after that photo shoot he did (I think that was a Paul Joyce story), when they felt after that had happened in Kiev it was time to get his head down and work hard. Again if there's truth to that, it is reactive. I seem to be in a minority that being reactive is not some type of insult. For me it is an absolutely crucial skill and every bit as important as being able to be proactive and work to a long term plan.

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1 minute ago, Barry Wom said:

I am absolutely not saying our overall philosophy is reactive. I am just pointing out what seems obvious to me, not all that we do is part of a large long term plan. Any successful business will have a long term strategy , but will need to operate tactically in the short term to respond to market conditions. I feel klopp is a master at being able to do that and I think many of his choices he will have barely considered before the option is in front of him. 

I think you are underestimating the people involved in addition to Klopp. I think they are pretty good at their jobs as well.

 

TBH I am not sure there is any reason to discuss the " we don't exist to win trophies anyMoores". It is a silly, silly suggestion.

 

Hah -- see what I did there!!

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1 minute ago, Barry Wom said:

There was still time to sign an alternative to fekir. But klopp reacted to the situation (which by the way I think was just how badly karius was doing in that preseason) and thought "this fekir injury issue gets me out of the shit we're in in goal". There was even talk at the time (although I don't know how true) that the senior players lobbied klopp to bomb karius after that photo shoot he did (I think that was a Paul Joyce story), when they felt after that had happened in Kiev it was time to get his head down and work hard. Again if there's truth to that, it is reactive. I seem to be in a minority that being reactive is not some type of insult. For me it is an absolutely crucial skill and every bit as important as being able to be proactive and work to a long term plan.

You may well be right but it's still plausible that the contingency plan all along was to sign a goalkeeper in the event that the Fekir transfer collapsed.  

 

I take your point that being reactive can be a positive trait.

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7 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

This statement only winds up those who still believe we exist to win trophies. Those of us who realise we exist to increase the capital value of the club do not get wound up about such things. It would be like if I walked into my living room and said "there's no father Christmas". My kids would be upset and would say I am teasing them, but it would be no shock to the adults in the room. 

Wow - you come up with some crap on here

 

You appear to have some insight into what's going on in the club, but the constant miserabilist interpretation of everything that's going on is incredibly wearing

 

Why can't you take people at their word? Klopp says he didn't need cover and that we couldn't improve the first team without spending £150m - that sounds reasonable to me and consistent with his overall approach.

 

FSG have said they want to win things and that the money is there to support that. That's consistent with their approach as competitive US sports owners and not inconsistent with improving the value of their asset - aiming to do both just makes sense.

 

Apart from anything else, choosing to take a contrary view just makes you miserable and antagonistic. Why the hell do it? 

 

We've got the best team and manager we've had in decades, we've just won the Champions League and we're well set up to challenge for the PL. Stop finding reasons to sabotage your enjoyment and join the rest of us in enjoying the ride.

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The club exists to operate as a business. 

Profits are a vital part of a successful business. 

Players exist to earn grand sums of money. 

Spectators exist because football offers escapism from their realities. 

The industry exists by facilitating the myth that spectators are vital to clubs. 

Clubs and the industry exist to exploit such spectators. 

The whole cycle of football is to keep things irrational. 

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1 minute ago, TK421 said:

You may well be right but it's still plausible that the contingency plan all along was to sign a goalkeeper in the event that the Fekir transfer collapsed.  

 

I take your point that being reactive can be a positive trait.

It might have been the plan, but I don't feel it was. But anyway , good discussion.

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5 minutes ago, Seasons said:

The club exists to operate as a business. 

Profits are a vital part of a successful business. 

Players exist to earn grand sums of money. 

Spectators exist because football offers escapism from their realities. 

The industry exists by facilitating the myth that spectators are vital to clubs. 

Clubs and the industry exist to exploit such spectators. 

The whole cycle of football is to keep things irrational. 

The club is, and always has been a very profitable business -- probably moreso 30 or 40 years ago.

Successful businesses are supposed to be profitable.

This is the first time I can remember that LFC can be considered to be successful on and off the field.

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2 minutes ago, Scrump said:

Wow - you come up with some crap on here

 

You appear to have some insight into what's going on in the club, but the constant miserabilist interpretation of everything that's going on is incredibly wearing

 

Why can't you take people at their word? Klopp says he didn't need cover and that we couldn't improve the first team without spending £150m - that sounds reasonable to me and consistent with his overall approach.

 

FSG have said they want to win things and that the money is there to support that. That's consistent with their approach as competitive US sports owners and not inconsistent with improving the value of their asset - aiming to do both just makes sense.

 

Apart from anything else, choosing to take a contrary view just makes you miserable and antagonistic. Why the hell do it? 

 

We've got the best team and manager we've had in decades, we've just won the Champions League and we're well set up to challenge for the PL. Stop finding reasons to sabotage your enjoyment and join the rest of us in enjoying the ride.

So firstly I'll address the last 2 paragraphs. I am both antagonistic and miserable. So I don't "do it" it is my personality. You have an ignore feature, if you don't want to read what I post, put me on ignore.

 

As for we're well set up to challenge for the PL, well I would argue with that point of view. We are at least one defender and one attacker short in my opinion. If lovren goes, make that 2 defenders. That is why we come on here, to discuss these things. I'm glad for you you think it couldn't be better. I think our first XI can match almost anyone, but our drop off at the back and in the forward positions is massive. We are well set up to lead the pack behind city, I think it takes a miracle to compete as we did last season.

 

As for why don't I trust our owners when they say the money is there is pretty simple. I've been hearing American owners tell us that since 2007. I'm yet to see any evidence of it. We've spent net a out 75m since klopp joined the club. These owners are not here to invest in our enjoyment. They are an investment group. They are very open and said their aim is to grow the capital value of the club and I've not seen any evidence to question that. I do see evidence to question "the money is there " idea. 1. Because we never show it is unless we sell. 2. Our manager told us the money isn't there, because we spent it last year. But he also told us what we spent last year was covered in point 1. 

 

And you have the cheek to tell me I talk some crap, when you think we have to spend 150m to improve us. Do you think not one player sold this summer would improve our squad? Yet not one of them has gone for 150m.

 

 

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I'm sure Klopp does have a budget and I don't see anything bad in that... the Main Stand and Kirkby have to be paid for and, I trust, a new Anny Rd stand sometime within the next few years

I am surprised we didn't make any significant signings, though, as the squad looks thin to me. 

I don't think the owners take anything out of the Club unlike the Glazers although happy to be proved wrong... if they did/do I'd be worried.

Don't really buy the whole not interested in winning things angle; apart from anything else winning stuff is the best way to increase the value of the asset 

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1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

We lost last season Baz - so we need a miracle AND 150 mil - what kind of fool would listen to that?

So I think that's the business decision we've made. Where are we likely to finish if we don't spend? 2nd. Where are we likely to finish if we spent 150m? 2nd. How does spending 150m improve our chances? maybe it does by 5%. Let's bank the cash then.

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3 minutes ago, Scrump said:

£150m to improve the starting team, not the squad - according to Klopp

Do you not think adding players to the squad who are not such a drop off from our 1st XI increases our chances of winning the league? We have a fine 1st XI, as we showed in that 1sr half last night, a few changes and we look wobbly. 

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5 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

So I think that's the business decision we've made. Where are we likely to finish if we don't spend? 2nd. Where are we likely to finish if we spent 150m? 2nd. How does spending 150m improve our chances? maybe it does by 5%. Let's bank the cash then.

Agreed, and of course that is not a knee jerk decision-- but...

 

#reactiveisthenewactive

#twotrophiesinthreemonths

 

 

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I'd have liked to have seen a fourth first choice attacker brought in for £40-80K that could rotate with the current front three. 

 

Klopp's approach of bringing players that can clearly improve the first team has been shown to work though - the improvement in our team from a few years back is unbelievable and wouldn't behave happened if we'd clogged the squad with more marginal improvements - so I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt (FWIW).

 

And there's a massive gap between saying it would have been good to bring in an extra forward and some of the negative comments in here about it being a dereliction of duty not to which will cost us the league.

 

We all have different views and I can understand why some people think that way, but I don't think it works for you (plural) any more than the rest of us. Takes all sorts I guess....

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