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Venezuela


moof
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9 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

Obviously we should just let Maduro starve and murder his own people, because America. That's the rational option.

Be nice if America went into Gaza as well seeing as they love offering a bit of humanitarian assistance. 

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3 hours ago, Strontium Dog said:

"Coup" is a strange term to use for the democratically elected leader of the national assembly attempting to oust a dictator.

 

"Coup" is absolutely the correct term for a foreign-backed insurrection against the democratically elected President. 

 

You bell.

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If starving Venezuelans is grounds for a coup, perhaps the Yanks should look a little closer to home:

 

Quote

Economic Sanctions as Collective Punishment: The Case of Venezuela

April 2019, Mark Weisbrot and Jeffrey Sachs

This paper looks at some of the most important impacts of the economic sanctions imposed on Venezuela by the US government since August of 2017. It finds that most of the impact of these sanctions has not been on the government but on the civilian population.

The sanctions reduced the public’s caloric intake, increased disease and mortality (for both adults and infants), and displaced millions of Venezuelans who fled the country as a result of the worsening economic depression and hyperinflation. They exacerbated Venezuela’s economic crisis and made it nearly impossible to stabilize the economy, contributing further to excess deaths. All of these impacts disproportionately harmed the poorest and most vulnerable Venezuelans.

Even more severe and destructive than the broad economic sanctions of August 2017 were the sanctions imposed by executive order on January 28, 2019 and subsequent executive orders this year; and the recognition of a parallel government, which as shown below, created a whole new set of financial and trade sanctions that are even more constricting than the executive orders themselves.

We find that the sanctions have inflicted, and increasingly inflict, very serious harm to human life and health, including an estimated more than 40,000 deaths from 2017 to 2018; and that these sanctions would fit the definition of collective punishment of the civilian population as described in both the Geneva and Hague international conventions, to which the US is a signatory. They are also illegal under international law and treaties that the US has signed, and would appear to violate US law as well.

 

http://cepr.net/publications/reports/economic-sanctions-as-collective-punishment-the-case-of-venezuela

 

 

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2 hours ago, Strontium Dog said:

Obviously we should just let Maduro starve and murder his own people, because America. That's the rational option.

 

Obviously we should just side with Trump, Bolton, Rubio, Bolsonaro, etc, and support a coup to secure the oil, privatise a load of stuff and get Venezuela in debt to the IMF. That's the rational option.

 

Nobody will suffer during all of this, clearly.

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1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The old Saddam false dichotomy: if you oppose imperialist aggression, you must support dictatorship.

 

Imperialist aggression? How many troops have the USA sent to Venezuela? And how many troops have Russia sent there?

 

Maduro is murdering his people. Feel free to criticise that at any juncture...

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13 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

Imperialist aggression? How many troops have the USA sent to Venezuela? And how many troops have Russia sent there?

 

Maduro is murdering his people. Feel free to criticise that at any juncture...

I think I posted something a few pages ago criticising Maduro - and also warning against US imperialist aggression.

 

Please don't pretend that you're so stupid that you believe "They haven't sent any troops there yet, so it can't be US aggression".

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24 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

Imperialist aggression? How many troops have the USA sent to Venezuela? And how many troops have Russia sent there?

 

Maduro is murdering his people. Feel free to criticise that at any juncture...

 

Yeah. Maduro is murdering his people so let's impose sanctions on the entire country to fuck them over and kill even more then get a bunch of right wingers to back a coup!

 

That'll teach em.

 

Maybe that's not so bad though, if the coup works out well enough and the country turns to shit in the right way we might even see a rise of neo-Nazis like we did in the Ukraine or something similar.

 

That'll really teach em.

 

Fuck Trump, Rubio, Bolton, Bolsonaro, and that horrid fucking prick Guaido.

 

It's no longer down with Guaido, it's fuck Guaido. Warmongering right wing cunt.

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9 hours ago, SasaS said:

If it's a US imperialist aggression, they don't seem to be doing a very good job of it.

I do think that they sometimes believe their own propaganda and expect millions of people to rise up and joyfully hand power to a US puppet. Then, when that doesn’t happen, they've got no ideas, other than killing more people with sanctions and bombs.

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10 hours ago, SasaS said:

If it's a US imperialist aggression, they don't seem to be doing a very good job of it.

 

My memory may be hazy, but I don't recall US imperialist aggressors being run over by tanks as often in the past.

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1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I do think that they sometimes believe their own propaganda and expect millions of people to rise up and joyfully hand power to a US puppet. Then, when that doesn’t happen, they've got no ideas, other than killing more people with sanctions and bombs.

Or they believe people who want their help to take over.

It may be that the opposition jumped the gun a bit here, because the preparations were compromised and they are also saying that G-man was about to be arrested so he lost his nerve.

They (someone) should make them all agree over the date and terms of new elections because this is not going to stop with the mess they are in.  

16 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

My memory may be hazy, but I don't recall US imperialist aggressors being run over by tanks as often in the past.


I think we can safely assume that the US and Russia both have people there.
 

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3 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

 

It's almost like something can be about different things to different people.

 

I await your evidence that protesters in the street being run over by armoured cars are in it for the oil.

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