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Someone's having a real laugh - sperm of gollum to Utd.

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56 minutes ago, SlugTrail said:

No it was my sister in laws boyfriend, he did start about how amazing Carrick was but didnt compare him to Alonso. I think the reaction to the Scholes statement might have stopped that one.

Scholes was a very good player. He could control the tempo of a game better than Gerrard could but that was it. Everything else, Gerrard better than him. 

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6 hours ago, Ronnie Whelan said:

The one thing I will say is that Fernandes is an outatanding player who can drag up the mediocrity around him and if they get 2-3 more players of his calibre, even that fool could make them a force again. 

 

We've seen a lot of mercurial types come to the Premier League and turn it on for 10, 15, 30 games then fade badly. Fernandes is 25, he may well be very good but he's also already bounced out of mid-table Udinese and Sampdoria in his career before arriving to Lisbon. That'd set alarm bells ringing a bit. Let's see if he maintains this form.

 

I've heard the question "How did a club as big as Liverpool manage to go 30 years without a title?" bounce around the airwaves a fair bit since last night in a diminishing way, as if Chelsea and then City didn't just blow the league up financially for a good 15 years. If not for City's oil money & complete disregard of FFP we'd have 2 more titles to add.

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12 hours ago, Alex_K said:

 

We've seen a lot of mercurial types come to the Premier League and turn it on for 10, 15, 30 games then fade badly. Fernandes is 25, he may well be very good but he's also already bounced out of mid-table Udinese and Sampdoria in his career before arriving to Lisbon. That'd set alarm bells ringing a bit. Let's see if he maintains this form.

 

I've heard the question "How did a club as big as Liverpool manage to go 30 years without a title?" bounce around the airwaves a fair bit since last night in a diminishing way, as if Chelsea and then City didn't just blow the league up financially for a good 15 years. If not for City's oil money & complete disregard of FFP we'd have 2 more titles to add.

Plus United, they spent insane fees on cogs to maintain their team, miles before any body else. 28 million on veron in 2001, 30 million on Ferdinand in 2002 we didn't pay more for a player than that until 2011 with panic buy Andy Carrol. Football is so much easier when you get to finger pick at the top tier of players. Chelsea proved that, Man city proved that. Us being able to get Alisson and VVD was the the step up for us.

 

This league has never ever had so many wealthy clubs in it. "Shite" teams are owned by billionaires. The idea the league is weaker is nonsense it's just harder to walk over sides now they all have threats and good players, more cultured managers and professional approaches. The quality of play and players technically across the league is a new level. Even fucking Norwhich bottom of the league are actually a decent football team you have to work to beat who show a real nice style. The table doesn't tell the truth of the games, it shows our consistency it doesn't show how hard we had to earn those 3 points, against the likes of Sheffield or villa , the last minute wins, grinding out results, of all the teams to beat us it was Watford and they battered us as they are capable of beating any of the top sides

 

We earnt this shit as much as any league winner ever has against as tough as any opposition any team has faced. Weak league my arse. European champions, world club champions, league champions.

 

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30 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

This league has never ever had so many wealthy clubs in it. "Shite" teams are owned by billionaires. The idea the league is weaker is nonsense it's just harder to walk over sides now they all have threats and good players, more cultured managers and professional approaches...

We earnt this shit as much as any league winner ever has against as tough as any opposition any team has faced. Weak league my arse. European champions, world club champions, league champions.

 

The league is as strong as its been for a decade. England has put up 3 out of the past 4 Champions League finalists. There'll likely be 2 English sides in the Europa Quarters. 4 English sides in the last 16 of the CL. In knockout competition I don't think there's 2 stronger first 11s than ourselves and City in Europe (Bayern maybe, but we made pretty comfortable work of them last season) -- its a travesty Atletico knocked us out. It suits the opposition narrative to say that as we walked over everyone the league is weak, but its just that we are really really really fucking good.

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1 minute ago, aws said:

The League is far, far stronger than it's ever been. 

05-10 most likely wins that particular award. English teams were imperious through that period. Ourselves and City up there with the best from that period though.

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13 hours ago, Alex_K said:

 

We've seen a lot of mercurial types come to the Premier League and turn it on for 10, 15, 30 games then fade badly. Fernandes is 25, he may well be very good but he's also already bounced out of mid-table Udinese and Sampdoria in his career before arriving to Lisbon. That'd set alarm bells ringing a bit. Let's see if he maintains this form.

 

I've heard the question "How did a club as big as Liverpool manage to go 30 years without a title?" bounce around the airwaves a fair bit since last night in a diminishing way, as if Chelsea and then City didn't just blow the league up financially for a good 15 years. If not for City's oil money & complete disregard of FFP we'd have 2 more titles to add.

And city in particular would probably have yo yo'd between the Championship and Premier League without mansour's money. Although chelsea had won a few cups pre Abramovich they were in dire financial trouble when Bates sold them to him.

 

The bottom line is, if you dont move with the times as they say, you get left behind very quickly in football. The Liverpool ownership thought the model that brought us such success through the 60's, 70's and 80's would do so again throughout the 90's and 00's.

 

I still think we were desparately unlucky in 2009(?) when that macheda's 2 goal's turned the game against Villa, 2014 when Hendo's red against city not Stevie's slip impacted us.

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10 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

The Liverpool ownership thought the model that brought us such success through the 60's, 70's and 80's would do so again throughout the 90's and 00's.

 

I still think we were desparately unlucky in 2009(?) when that macheda's 2 goal's turned the game against Villa, 2014 when Hendo's red against city not Stevie's slip impacted us.

To be honest the 90s was down to just bad management. The "we ran the club like a corner shop" line has been trotted out over the years, but we spent a lot of money on some wretched players. I've posted the comparison before but we spent as much on Dicks, Clough & Ruddock as United did on Cantona, Schmeichel, Irwin & Kanchelskis combined. Collymore was as much as Cole & Solskjaer combined. We just weren't remotely competitive with the money we spent, which was still a lot. Its equivalent to United going out and getting Shaw now while we have Robertson, Maguire while we have Van Dijk, Lukaku while we have Firmino etc. Just haphazard spending.

 

05-10 were the years where we really were financially hamstrung, and as you say unlucky for that side not to pick up a title competing against maybe United's best ever team.

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16 minutes ago, Arnaud said:

We were definitely unlucky, but luck is part of sports, and winners usually are pretty lucky.

 

10 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

To be honest the 90s was down to just bad management. The "we ran the club like a corner shop" line has been trotted out over the years, but we spent a lot of money on some wretched players. I've posted the comparison before but we spent as much on Dicks, Clough & Ruddock as United did on Cantona, Schmeichel, Irwin & Kanchelskis combined. Collymore was as much as Cole & Solskjaer combined. We just weren't remotely competitive with the money we spent, which was still a lot. Its equivalent to United going out and getting Shaw now while we have Robertson, Maguire while we have Van Dijk, Lukaku while we have Firmino etc. Just haphazard spending.

 

05-10 were the years where we really were financially hamstrung, and as you say unlucky for that side not to pick up a title competing against maybe United's best ever team.

Totally agree with you both.

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43 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

05-10 most likely wins that particular award. English teams were imperious through that period. Ourselves and City up there with the best from that period though.

We're talking about the strength of the league which is a bit different from performance in Europe although that is a good benchmark. Rafa had us over performing and maybe the best in Europe but we weren't a great league side.

 

Nowadays the League has probably the best two sides in the world both of whom are way ahead of any English teams in the 2005-10 era. The rest of the "big six" may be  in a bit of transition at the moment but would still be a match for their equivalents in other leagues. Most of  the lesser lights have a few class imports as a result of the TV money and are capable of getting good results on their day. 

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This is the weakest league ever....Zzzzzz

But Utd’s first title in 26 years in 1993 they had to overcome Villa, Norwich, Blackburn and QPR with us coming in sixth place.

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1 hour ago, Stickman said:

This is the weakest league ever....Zzzzzz

But Utd’s first title in 26 years in 1993 they had to overcome Villa, Norwich, Blackburn and QPR with us coming in sixth place.

The following year, villa and Norwich were mid table and even lower the year after. It was weak as piss.

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1 hour ago, Stickman said:

This is the weakest league ever....Zzzzzz

But Utd’s first title in 26 years in 1993 they had to overcome Villa, Norwich, Blackburn and QPR with us coming in sixth place.

True ‘dat.

I do miss the days when a promoted or previously underwhelming side could suddenly gel and have a proper crack at the title. I know we had Leicester a few years back, but even then that felt like a wild anomaly. By comparison, Villa in 92-93 felt like a side who had been put together at *just* the right moment for their various players - Dean Saunders with something to prove after we’d ejected him, Dalian Atkinson having the best season of his life, and players who seemed like they’d seen better days after winning the title elsewhere (Richardson, Mounfield, and maybe both Staunton and Houghton). 

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1 hour ago, Stickman said:

This is the weakest league ever....Zzzzzz

But Utd’s first title in 26 years in 1993 they had to overcome Villa, Norwich, Blackburn and QPR with us coming in sixth place.


The status of English clubs in Europe at that point really tells you all you need to know. A talented journeyman like Cantona was feted as the pinnacle of the division’s talent.

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3 hours ago, aws said:

We're talking about the strength of the league which is a bit different from performance in Europe although that is a good benchmark. Rafa had us over performing and maybe the best in Europe but we weren't a great league side.

 

Nowadays the League has probably the best two sides in the world both of whom are way ahead of any English teams in the 2005-10 era. The rest of the "big six" may be  in a bit of transition at the moment but would still be a match for their equivalents in other leagues. Most of  the lesser lights have a few class imports as a result of the TV money and are capable of getting good results on their day. 

Arsenal, Chelsea, United & us made 8 European Cup finals through those years. Chelsea and Arsenal are pale comparisons with the teams they had then. Teams like Pompey, Fulham and Villa were variously pretty strong too.

 

Are City better even than the Ronaldo-led 08/09 United side? Well, considering that they've never made a European Cup semi final to date and have been knocked out by Monaco/Tottenham under Guardiola its a pretty tough arguement to make. 10 more points in the League or 3 European Cup finals in 4 years while also winning the title in all of those seasons? I know which one stacks up to the mark of a great team. Plant those Chelsea, United and Arsenal sides in the league alongside us and City probably aren't ever making 100 points either.

 

To say we weren't a great league side at peak under Rafa is just wrong: we lost 2 games all season in 08/09. For context City have already lost 8 this season. That Rafa team was much superior to plenty of other league winning sides since. A side made-up of City now and us then would be 50/50. So yes, suggestions this is a weak league are juvenile, but its not the strongest/most competitive either.

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He's proper petty, I'd be embarrassed if Evans or someone had come out with something like that while Ferguson was starting to win stuff. Mindset wise he's similar to Moyes or Hodgson, a heady mix of unjustified arrogance and stupidity, although in fairness both those two had achieved far more in the game. Long may he reign.

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I think you'll find football quality peaked in this country in 1985 when Everton won the league but then IMMEDIATELY went downhill again and has never recovered although there was a slight return to that quality for the FA cup season of 94/95. 

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What's great is they've suddenly turned into the Utd of the mid-eighties when any little improvement was deemed as as a precursor to total domination/delusion. 

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19 minutes ago, Anubis said:

An FA Cup semi is surely enough to keep him in the job? Surely?

Hope springs eternal and just narrowly missing out on a top 4 finish would signal real progress 

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