Someone's having a real laugh - sperm of gollum to Utd.

[Barrington Womble]

As much as I hate these cunts, I don't think it's too unreasonable for them to expect the club be able to spend their own money, rather than use it to service debt and pay a big dividend. If that means they can compete better with ADC, well it's their money. I have no fucking sympathy with them as they've let this ride for years and didn't give a shit when they were top of the pile. But H&G would still be the owners of Liverpool if Cecil hadn't pulled the masterstroke of putting hodgson in charge. 

[magicrat]

18 hours ago, manwiththestick said:

According to Crackle the fans protesting is the reason they lost their last two games.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57143621

Saw that too.  He's a very silly boy not keeping his head down and seeing out the season rather than looking for excuses for his decision to play the reserves against Leicester. Schoolboy error not taking each game as it comes and in looking to wing it it in the first game ended up losing both. 

[dockers_strike]

He's a fucking tit. He's the epitome of 'it's never my fault'!

[m0e]

2 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

He's a fucking tit. He's the epitome of 'it's never my fault'!

He's the best manager for them.

 

Get the new contract signed!!

[Stickman]

On 17/05/2021 at 15:56, manwiththestick said:

According to Crackle the fans protesting is the reason they lost their last two games.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57143621

Wonder what excuse Gollum will use for tonight .?

[manwiththestick]

1 minute ago, Stickman said:

Wonder what excuse Gollum will use for tonight .?

They players couldn't hear each other?

[Anubis]

Green and gold scarves in the stand was off putting to his players.

[Jockey]

9 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

As much as I hate these cunts, I don't think it's too unreasonable for them to expect the club be able to spend their own money, rather than use it to service debt and pay a big dividend. If that means they can compete better with ADC, well it's their money. I have no fucking sympathy with them as they've let this ride for years and didn't give a shit when they were top of the pile. But H&G would still be the owners of Liverpool if Cecil hadn't pulled the masterstroke of putting hodgson in charge. 

Fair argument - but one of the reasons why they have so much money of their own is down to the current owners who have tripled the commercial income. They haven't just taken money out of the club, they have also improved it a lot. I find it a bit disingenuous to point to their income as proof they don't need rich owners and ignore why they are so rich. You could equally argue the Glazers are taking money that they earned. 

[Chocoholic]

 

[Pete]

Complete and utter cretinous cunt.  

[Barrington Womble]

12 hours ago, Jockey said:

Fair argument - but one of the reasons why they have so much money of their own is down to the current owners who have tripled the commercial income. They haven't just taken money out of the club, they have also improved it a lot. I find it a bit disingenuous to point to their income as proof they don't need rich owners and ignore why they are so rich. You could equally argue the Glazers are taking money that they earned. 

Much of that growth was achieved by ewarwoowar around 2014/15. But has their growth massively outstripped everyone else over that period (by percentage not £)? They flew miles ahead of us in that period, but that's because we were treading water commercially for a long time once Ayre moved up to CEO/MD and Billy Hogan took over his job. Much of the other income rises all clubs get of course has come from TV. 

 

Personally I don't agree with the idea that football clubs are for profit organisations. Throughout the pandemic people were turning to their clubs to help support communities, because the football club is at the heart of most communities. For me sport, community and profit carry completely different agendas. I realise we're stuck with the model we have. But it doesn't mean I have to like it. 

[Jockey]

1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

Much of that growth was achieved by ewarwoowar around 2014/15. But has their growth massively outstripped everyone else over that period (by percentage not £)? They flew miles ahead of us in that period, but that's because we were treading water commercially for a long time once Ayre moved up to CEO/MD and Billy Hogan took over his job. Much of the other income rises all clubs get of course has come from TV. 

 

Personally I don't agree with the idea that football clubs are for profit organisations. Throughout the pandemic people were turning to their clubs to help support communities, because the football club is at the heart of most communities. For me sport, community and profit carry completely different agendas. I realise we're stuck with the model we have. But it doesn't mean I have to like it. 

Not really, they implemented lots of new strategies including regional marketing that increased commercial activity - Woodward was their guy don't forget. I think the argument that the way their takeover was done should not be allowed is a solid one - we are akin to cultural institutions I think, and should be seen like that. You should not be allowed to put a loan onto the club/business you are buying. Morally I do agree with you, but I don't think it is as clear cut as their fans are making it out to be. They seem to want the money but ignore how they have got that money!

 

I think it depends upon what you mean by 'profit' I agree with you that they are not like other businesses, we are not going to take our business elsewhere if we don't like the 'product' anymore. But, I have no problem with the wages etc. working class lads have always seen sport and music as the way out - and that has to be paid for. And there are other ways to make money - as I think Moshiri is doing! I think he is another Hicks and Gillett and will straddle the club with a £700m debt and will sell up and go - with a good £300m profit on 5 years work. So it isn't all about profit. 

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Jockey said:

Not really, they implemented lots of new strategies including regional marketing that increased commercial activity - Woodward was their guy don't forget. I think the argument that the way their takeover was done should not be allowed is a solid one - we are akin to cultural institutions I think, and should be seen like that. You should not be allowed to put a loan onto the club/business you are buying. Morally I do agree with you, but I don't think it is as clear cut as their fans are making it out to be. They seem to want the money but ignore how they have got that money!

 

I think it depends upon what you mean by 'profit' I agree with you that they are not like other businesses, we are not going to take our business elsewhere if we don't like the 'product' anymore. But, I have no problem with the wages etc. working class lads have always seen sport and music as the way out - and that has to be paid for. And there are other ways to make money - as I think Moshiri is doing! I think he is another Hicks and Gillett and will straddle the club with a £700m debt and will sell up and go - with a good £300m profit on 5 years work. So it isn't all about profit. 

But H&G and Moshiri have done what they've done (and the glazers too) in an environment that has pretty much allowed this to all take place. I don't know how we roll it back, if we can roll it back at all, but I do know I am more aligned with what MUST are saying than I would be to what Joel glazer would to mark his position. I get your point they did some marketing stuff (which is why I referenced in a previous post ewarwoowar - an old joke I realise). I think it's time for the base of the game to fight back. There shouldn't be leveraged buyouts. Clubs shouldn't be run by nation states sports washing. And while it's all fine saying everyone wants to watch Liverpool and Manchester United, the reality is the strength of football has always been that pyramid system. The beauty of our club is it fails sometimes and fights back, like we're litterally seeing unfold in the final games of the season. That should be something that happens. It's what draws us all to the sport and it's part of the global appeal. Would Shanks be able to build our club the way he did in today's football economy? I think not. But that dream should exist. 

 

I think the game needs new governance from top to bottom. Lower clubs shouldn't be having wage bills beyond their means. They also play this "community card". But if the club is there to be the centre of the community, does it need 20 full time professionals or whatever - can their squads not be managed with part time players to ensure they cut their cloth accordingly? Equally at the top, it should not be all about putting as much of the money possible into the hands of the fewest. Most domestic leagues across Europe are dull as shit now, with 1 team running away with it time and again. The champions League has about a dozen club who are making up most of the last 8 year after year. And as we can see from the line ups of the semis of the 2 previous CLs, the very top of the that competition is being flooded by petro-clubs. 

 

I feel we're on a slippery slope. It has already gone too far imo (in so much that there's no way back), but I am all in favour of any fan who wants to say "this isn't the sport I signed up to and I want change"

[DalyanPete]

On 17/05/2021 at 23:05, Red Shift said:

 Yeah read that. “"It's never nice to see a club that is not united.”  said Solskjaer.

Hahaha. You’ll hate the name ‘Liverpool then’. What about Leeds United? West Ham United?

There's only one United, and that's a chocolate biscuit.

One for the older kopites.

[Jockey]

37 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

But H&G and Moshiri have done what they've done (and the glazers too) in an environment that has pretty much allowed this to all take place. I don't know how we roll it back, if we can roll it back at all, but I do know I am more aligned with what MUST are saying than I would be to what Joel glazer would to mark his position. I get your point they did some marketing stuff (which is why I referenced in a previous post ewarwoowar - an old joke I realise). I think it's time for the base of the game to fight back. There shouldn't be leveraged buyouts. Clubs shouldn't be run by nation states sports washing. And while it's all fine saying everyone wants to watch Liverpool and Manchester United, the reality is the strength of football has always been that pyramid system. The beauty of our club is it fails sometimes and fights back, like we're litterally seeing unfold in the final games of the season. That should be something that happens. It's what draws us all to the sport and it's part of the global appeal. Would Shanks be able to build our club the way he did in today's football economy? I think not. But that dream should exist. 

 

I think the game needs new governance from top to bottom. Lower clubs shouldn't be having wage bills beyond their means. They also play this "community card". But if the club is there to be the centre of the community, does it need 20 full time professionals or whatever - can their squads not be managed with part time players to ensure they cut their cloth accordingly? Equally at the top, it should not be all about putting as much of the money possible into the hands of the fewest. Most domestic leagues across Europe are dull as shit now, with 1 team running away with it time and again. The champions League has about a dozen club who are making up most of the last 8 year after year. And as we can see from the line ups of the semis of the 2 previous CLs, the very top of the that competition is being flooded by petro-clubs. 

 

I feel we're on a slippery slope. It has already gone too far imo (in so much that there's no way back), but I am all in favour of any fan who wants to say "this isn't the sport I signed up to and I want change"

I can't disagree with any of that. I just feel United are the wrong club to be seen as the figurehead as I don't trust their motives. I think, the old TTW&R had a comment once - that we want to be the best, they want to be the only one - and I still think that is true. 

 

I am struggling to see how we can stop business practices when we view clubs as businesses - leverage buyouts are sadly ubiquitous in business and legally I guess they can be used in Football. But, as you say - Football clubs are not business - the normal rules don't apply, we don't shop around, we aren't governed by price, or quality, it is an emotional heritage that many of us choose our club. If we are viewed as cultural institutions then that could that limit the ownership options? The problem is the fans - and I think we are just as guilty - look at High Horse FC - the 'Peoples' club have flitted seamlessly into 'Uncle Uzzy Billionaire owner' mentality without any thought or awareness of the hypocrisy (that may be unique to them). 

 

My worry is that we are seen as 'legacy' fans - I know I am the clubs worst type of fan, I buy my ticket - I go the game, I spend fuck all on the rest. No top, no tat, no online membership. I worry that fans in Asia are seen as more valuable to Liverpool Football Club than I am, a lad born in Liverpool who grew up a mile from the ground. I don't know how you tackle that conundrum? I want the club to be sustainable and buying the best players It can - but that comes with earning money and they earn less from me. There are lots of options - but I can't see City or Chelsea giving up their owners, I can't see the fans of other clubs giving up on the chance of a lottery win and being bought by the Saudi's - and once they are accepted as owners then the only way to compete is to make more money. 

 

But the German league is shit. Not competitive and Munich are a bunch of cunts. The whole structure of German football seems to be set up to benefit them - remove buyout clauses and they don't buy Goatze! I think for all the talk of Government action - it is the fans that are the obstacle to genuine change. 

[aws]

The biggest problem is the wages. To compete you've got to be able to afford a wage bill running into hundreds of millions and this drives the whole crazy, rip-off business. A cap on wages of say £50k per week opens up a whole new world  of competitiveness and fair treatment for fans.  I know it can't/won't happen. 

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, Jockey said:

I can't disagree with any of that. I just feel United are the wrong club to be seen as the figurehead as I don't trust their motives. I think, the old TTW&R had a comment once - that we want to be the best, they want to be the only one - and I still think that is true. 

 

I am struggling to see how we can stop business practices when we view clubs as businesses - leverage buyouts are sadly ubiquitous in business and legally I guess they can be used in Football. But, as you say - Football clubs are not business - the normal rules don't apply, we don't shop around, we aren't governed by price, or quality, it is an emotional heritage that many of us choose our club. If we are viewed as cultural institutions then that could that limit the ownership options? The problem is the fans - and I think we are just as guilty - look at High Horse FC - the 'Peoples' club have flitted seamlessly into 'Uncle Uzzy Billionaire owner' mentality without any thought or awareness of the hypocrisy (that may be unique to them). 

 

My worry is that we are seen as 'legacy' fans - I know I am the clubs worst type of fan, I buy my ticket - I go the game, I spend fuck all on the rest. No top, no tat, no online membership. I worry that fans in Asia are seen as more valuable to Liverpool Football Club than I am, a lad born in Liverpool who grew up a mile from the ground. I don't know how you tackle that conundrum? I want the club to be sustainable and buying the best players It can - but that comes with earning money and they earn less from me. There are lots of options - but I can't see City or Chelsea giving up their owners, I can't see the fans of other clubs giving up on the chance of a lottery win and being bought by the Saudi's - and once they are accepted as owners then the only way to compete is to make more money. 

 

But the German league is shit. Not competitive and Munich are a bunch of cunts. The whole structure of German football seems to be set up to benefit them - remove buyout clauses and they don't buy Goatze! I think for all the talk of Government action - it is the fans that are the obstacle to genuine change. 

I don't really disagree with any of that. I don't trust the mancs either.  But their club, despite all of their revenues, has probably been most exploited by their ownership. There's that much money to be drained out of the game, I believe the recent buy out of Burnley was leveraged. It's just insane. Fucking Burnley. 

[Jockey]

2 hours ago, aws said:

The biggest problem is the wages. To compete you've got to be able to afford a wage bill running into hundreds of millions and this drives the whole crazy, rip-off business. A cap on wages of say £50k per week opens up a whole new world  of competitiveness and fair treatment for fans.  I know it can't/won't happen. 

Salary caps could work if they were set to budgets - but strictly monitored (which is the issue). We could pay Salah £350k a week, but his cover would need to be £20k a week. Allowing for youth team players. The irony being that our owners are looking to the American model - yet this fucking model has college football making millions and yet the players earn nothing! I was reading about Elizabeth Ledecky the swimmer and it seems that she wasn't allowed to take sponsorship as a college student despite winning gold medals at the Olympics! 

[No2]

Some of you where beginning to have doubts.

[Anubis]

Remarkable achievement to have taken Utd to the final, even if he ultimately fell short. Deserves a contract extension.

[TheDrowningMan]

7 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Remarkable achievement to have taken Utd to the final, even if he ultimately fell short. Deserves a contract extension.

Reminiscent of Klopp in 2018 - I have no doubt Ole has what it takes to return United to the Europa League final next season.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

Remarkable how he failed to use any subs until long after his team ran out of steam tonight. Strange to see that at this level, and expect him to get absolutely slaughtered for it.

[Bjornebye]

Anyone reckon they will fuck him off? 

[AdamD]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

Anyone reckon they will fuck him off? 

No he has got too many cheer leaders who are pundits on the television…Neville, Ferdinand, Roy Keane, wee Scholesy

[chrisbonnie]

3 minutes ago, AdamD said:

No he has got too many cheer leaders who are pundits on the television…Neville, Ferdinand, Roy Keane, wee Scholesy

I don't know, surely someone at that club would see sense and try and get conte in.