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Red Star Belgrade 2 Liverpool 0 (Oct 6 2018)


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Dave Usher

 

It had been coming. You can’t keep playing the way we have without it eventually catching up with you. The wins over Red Star and Cardiff at Anfield suggested we were getting back into the groove but we now know that’s not the case. This was shite.

 

We weren’t very good at Arsenal but we were just terrible in this game. There are a lot of reasons why and one of them is complacency. After what we did in Europe last season it’s understandable to a degree, but the whole approach to this game just reeked of “walk in the park”.

 

Firstly, leaving Shaqiri at home. Why? Why would you do that? I get that there are tensions involved and that the Red Star fans hate him. So fucking what? Are we going to leave Lovren and Van Dijk at home when we go to St Mary’s this year then? Of course not.

 

Yes, there’s a difference in the hostility levels in Southampton and Belgrade, but the point still stands. The stadium was hostile anyway, Shaqiri or no Shaqiri. Choreographed chanting with one end shouting “Fuck off” and the other end replying with “Liverpool”. They booed and whistled throughout. So fucking what? They’re miles from the pitch so it shouldn’t matter.

 

And I don’t think it did matter. We didn’t play like shite because of a few boos and whistles and there is nothing that Shaqiri shouldn’t have been able to handle. We were reduced to bringing on fucking Divock Origi to try and salvage something because we left the little fella at home. Fact is, we’re not playing well enough to be able to leave Shaqiri out.

 

 

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Agree regarding Shaqiri why leave him out? I'm not into mind games but if I was that's one nil to them before a ball is kicked

I remember Souness breaking a Bucharest players jaw at home in 84 a fortnight later he was public enemy number one got warned he was going to get dogs abuse and did  He ended up leaving the pitch with his socks in shreds, still didn't stop him producing a MOTM performance and getting us to the final. If that was nowadays he'd have probably been left out so as not to antagonise them

Another reason we should have took him is it would have maybe distracted their fans and players on him rather then the game as judging by what we saw it wouldn't have been a bad thing

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18 minutes ago, Stickman said:

Agree regarding Shaqiri why leave him out? I'm not into mind games but if I was that's one nil to them before a ball is kicked

I remember Souness breaking a Bucharest players jaw at home in 84 a fortnight later he was public enemy number one got warned he was going to get dogs abuse and did  He ended up leaving the pitch with his socks in shreds, still didn't stop him producing a MOTM performance and getting us to the final. If that was nowadays he'd have probably been left out so as not to antagonise them

Another reason we should have took him is it would have maybe distracted their fans and players on him rather then the game as judging by what we saw it wouldn't have been a bad thing

 

I think you need to understand just how deep-seated ethnic tensions in the Balkans have been since the early 1990s. Serbians still see Kosovo as part of Serbia. Albania (and the UN) recognises it as an independent nation. The population of Kosovo is largely ethnic Albanian. Shaqiri (and Granit Xhaka) are of ethnic Albanian heritage and, while playing (and both scoring) for Switzerland against Serbia at the World Cup, they made a hand gesture representing the Kosovar Eagle (or the one on the Albanian flag). Whether they intended to goad or not, it inflamed a lot of people in Serbia. Those players will know much more about what Serbian and pro-Serb armed forces did to the people of Kosovo in the late 1990s. Those wounds still run deep for many. As UK citizens, we simply don't know what it's like to be in that situation.

 

There would have been a bit more than booing and whistling for Shaqiri to face, and the club rightly felt that it was a distraction they didn't need. I don't think the decision gave Red Star a one-nil advantage before a ball was kicked, like you've suggested. I don't think it was a factor in the team playing a poorly as they did.

 

Also, the situation Shaqiri might have been stepping into is absolutely not the same as the one Souness faced. The Dinamo Bucharest fans and players had issues with him because he broke the jaw of one of their players. There was nothing political about it.

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Robertson was crap too, passing back all the second half, never trying to take on their full back. Yet can't argue, the rest were utter crap too. 

Lallana does not belong on an away fixture against a team trying for their lives, his flicks and fancy dan stuff and conceding free kicks all over the pitch, otherwise the picks made sense to me. But the midfield has regressed, Milner and Gini nowhere near what they were at the start of the season. Passing the ball to them for their second a new low point however. Henderson's energy and control were missed first half especially. Sadly, the two new arrivals haven't shown many signs of improving things so far.

But you're right the forwards are the problem. The midfield was the same last year but the forwards disguised their weakness. This year the forwards are all over the place. Salah wants more time than he's getting, Bobby is a better defender than forward at the moment. Mané literally tried to pass the ball through defenders bodies not once but three times. He looks like he doesn't want to be here. There's no cohesion. You summed up Sturridge perfectly.

But the manager takes a lot of this too. The team were complacent and, like so many times this year, unwilling to put their bodies on the line, tackle hard and win 50-50s. Something isn't right in the squad. 

I said on the forum I have lived through so many false dawns with this club the last 25 years and I fall for it every time. But this seems like a real punch in the guts. You said you were starting to trust this group, I have lost any trust.

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As stated above this is staggering - but it also sums up what is wrong with the midfield and how it negatively impacts our performances...

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/shocking-statistic-emerges-liverpool-midfield-15381438

 

For me people saying the forwards are the problem are wrong - the problem is very, very clearly in my view the midfield.

 

Once Coutinho went there was nobody left in there with guile, vision, the eye to thread clever balls into dangerous areas and link with the front 3 dangerously - The players in there  have never been good creatively but their "creativity" was in pressing and winning the ball in good positions, in positions where there was threat and then feeding the front 3 in dangerous areas who then caused havoc...now they just knock hopeful balls towards front men often in non threatening areas......

 

As a team with us sitting back more and not pressing as much the midfield problems are badly exposed....And our potency greatly reduced.

 

Shaq when he plays improves things - he hunted the ball in a really dangerous area for our 1st goal v Red Star at Anfield - fed it into front men in a dangerous area and we scored, he can and does get in there and link with the front 3....most of the time now though our midfielders aren't pressing and winning it high up and when they do have it are knocking in hopeful/straight passes into our front men with a sort of "go on then you make it happen" vibe..........the problem is they are receiving ball in areas where they are crowded out, a long way from goal, ball was too obvious/has nothing for them to really work with and so on.

 

We attacked and hunted as a unit last year, altogether and it overwhelmed teams - that isn't happening now and it mostly the fault of the midfield, who are passive, slow and lacking creativity.

 

Our full backs are also playing much more reservedly which is making us too narrow too in attack and then our front men are trying to get out wide and do things which again is not working - we pretty much attack 3 v 8 or 9 a lot now and it is not cohesive or threatening enough - we are too far apart, look at how close together as a team Arsenal attacked and defended v us at weekend...much more like how we did last season.

 

 

 

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Perfect storm last night. Complacent team selection. Complacent attitude from players. No balls when the going got tough. Missed chances. Some bad luck. Ref who tolerated Mane getting clattered from behind multiple times and fell for all the Red Star 'injuries'. A bit like global warming, these storms are coming along a bit too often.

Rotation is necessary - but Lallana and Sturridge (Slow and Slower) in the same starting eleven, against a team that's going to run around like maniacs, fired up by a rabid crowd and who are going to rough you up a bit? Play one of them, not both, at Anfield, against Fulham, if someone else needs a rest. When you've got a fight on your hands, you leave those two on the bench.

Fabinho might have struggled a bit against Arsenal (other than VVD and Gomez, who didn't?) but he'd have at least thrown a few tackles in last night.

I don't go along with the Alisson criticism. The guy leathers it, don't know if anyone's going to stop that. 2nd goal is obvioulsy on Milner, then Gini and also on Matip who fannied about like a fairy instead of closing down the space and throwing his body at it. Mtip started off well enough at the club, but he's just not strong or aggressive enough. And Lovren - how often is he 'ill'?!

 

Hands up anyone who thinks we've a chance of winning in Paris, or even beat Napoli by 2 clear goals? Desperate to be proved wrong here, boys.......

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I reckon the club were more concerned about Shaqiri's safety than about insulting the hosts. Maybe they felt it was a risk not worth taking? What if he suffered a serious injury as a result of a bad challenge from a player trying to make a name for himself, or, worse, if there was some kind of pitch invasion?

Not too bothered about that as we still should have had enough to beat them.

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My observation is that we are no longer a high energy pressing team. We're compact and relatively passive without the ball and relying on something happening at the other end to nick games. We aren't hunting in packs and forcing mistakes and those running stats highlight it.

 

I actually don't think our attackers suit that style of game at all. Firmino in particular is wasted in a wide position in this system and if this is a permanent tactical switch we might as well sell him as we just won't get value from him.

 

As for the midfield, it just lacks any real quality at all. Shaqiri has to come into it now as there's barely any goals or creativity in it at all.

 

It's been said before but this team has a very 2002 feel about it at the moment. Good teams have the ability to play badly and win but they don't play badly most games and do it over a season.

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In a week where the Spice Girls confirmed that the were reuniting and touring next year it looked as if the Spice Boys of the mid-late 1990s had returned with that performance last night ; complete with their cream Armani suits and sunglasses . A very poor performance . Got what we deserved. Have to do it the hard way if we are to qualify now ........

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6 weeks ago when everyone was saying we haven't gotten out of 3rd gear I said this was our new gear and it's sadly true. BTW I'm not looking to blow my own trumpet by saying it again.

 

There are serious issues with how the midfield and forwards are playing. Fair enough if it was a new layout with Keita and Fabinho in there, being new buys and all, but it isn't. It's pretty much the same midfield 3 of Milner, Gini, Hendo on rotation with someone else jumping in. How can they go so shit so quickly? 

 

The difference between this season and last as far as the front 3 are concerned is pretty simple for me. They were playing as a team last year. This year they are playing for themselves. Time and again they go for glory when the pass is the right option. None more so than Mo who can't pass to save his life. Sadio looks like he's practising for 100m sprints most of the time, tapping the ball by a player then running full tilt with the ball until it goes out for a goal kick. Firmino just looks totally burnt out. 

 

The trio of Fab, Keith and Shaq should be used far more than they have already, simply to let the other bunch know their places can't be taken for granted. All on Klopp. He needs to get his head out of his arse. If these stupid team selections and resulting performances keep up we could actually be behind Bournemouth by Christmas. 

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Trumo explains the Shaqiri thing better than I could.

 

It goes a bit beyond football and I think you would have been looking at a bit more than some stick from the fans as it were.

 

One thing is for sure, he has to be a starter for a run of games now. 

 

     

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If we've purposely changed our style to this then it's dogshit. Laboured. This result was coming.  I thought signing the likes of VVD, fabinho was so we could play the same full throttle football but have better players at the back to improve going forward even further.

 

We've looked predictable as fuck and mane looks like he's trying his hardest but he's wearing heelies. I think it is just a case of players being out of form but how the fuck do you address that when it's so many of them.

 

I thought the mancs had won the champions league this morning when I went to work such was their joy.

 

Hopefully it's just a bad spell but klopp needs to react to the situation not just plod on and hope something clicks or lallana will suddenly improve.

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We lack courage.

 

The above point about Robbo is indicative of that - a player's first touch can be either positive or conservative.  Does he touch to protect and shield or does he touch to move the ball forward quickly.

 

This lack of courage comes from a lack of confidence.  I am not sure how it has drained.  Maybe there was none from the off when we were getting results but we were still drawing on our great form last season thinking it would be ok.

 

It isn't.  It's awful, and the truth is ANY team is capable of beating us.

 

I know it's possibly simplistic to look to the loss of a coach, but the truth is sometimes even a counterpoint from Buvac to Klopp's thinking or instructions can hook in more players.  Sometimes head coaches don't appreciate that they are actually part of a double act.

 

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We have a few things to sort....none more urgently than our vapid midfield but lets not write us off totally yet.

 

We are still just after bommy night unbeaten in league and our european destiny is in our own hands.

 

Get this last poxy international break out way (hopefully with no more broken players) and hopefully we can get a settled midfield working and helping the team improve.

 

A bit of perspective is needed IMO....we aren't miles away even with the hinderence that shower in midfield are to us right now - sort that and we might just be dead on.

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Klopp killed us tactically in the second half.  We were poor in the first half and for me it was because we thought it would be a walk in the park.  I’ve been a fan of Sturridge this season and think he deserved a start but I was fuming with him last night.  It was old greedy bastard Sturridge who was back.  I can’t tell whether Klopp just subs/drops him in these situations and hopes he just gets the message as to why he’s but clearly it doesn’t seem to go in.  He needs to spell it out to him and tell him he won’t be playing again for a while and will be completely fucked off if he pulls it again.

 

Trent has obviously looked promising for a while but he’s in a rut and he’s not an experienced professional going through one he’s a young lad just going through the motions.  It’s painful to see as he’s looking as bad as an amateur at the moment.  I can’t believe it’s had to come to this with such an important game and result.  He shouldn’t be in the squad never mind the starting line up.  Klopp clearly isn’t oblivious to it because he’s taken him out previously.  He was poor against Arsenal and he was just as bad last night.

 

The second half subs were the right ones in my opinion but the tactics were tragically bad.  Everyone was raging with Lallana and wanting him subbed which was understandable but we were 2-0 down and needed a creative player in midfield.  It clearly wasn’t the best situation to throw Keita back in coming back from injury having been really poor himself.

 

Our best chances in the first half came from Mane and Robertson doubling up on the full back and Mo getting down their other side with his pace.  Klopp seems to have a complete blind spot for the wide areas.  His changes seem Salah come inside and Mane go to the right.  We then created fuck all.  Robbo is not a winger.  You can’t expect to give him the ball on the left and go past 2 or 3 players and create something.  In 45 mins I think Firmino went over there once to help him.  It appeared at times we’d switched to a 3 at the back with Mane operating as a wing back.  He struggled just as much as Robertson.

 

When sides absolutely pack out the middle like that you need two players on at least one side of the pitch, preferably both to commit players and get in behind.  I just understand why Klopp can’t see that.  The whole half was painfully predictable.  The chances we had came from balls bouncing around and small mistakes.  Milner saying we aren’t taking our chances is a red herring.  We aren’t creating anywhere near enough of them.

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Im genuinely surprised you think that-it was purely political.

 

The entire nation was spitting feathers at Shaqiris antics and were being worked up into a frenzy by the club itself and if reports are to be believed, the politicians.

 

We should have got the job done regardless but in a situation like that we made the right decision  

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8 hours ago, DaveT said:

Perfect storm last night. Complacent team selection. Complacent attitude from players. No balls when the going got tough. Missed chances. Some bad luck. Ref who tolerated Mane getting clattered from behind multiple times and fell for all the Red Star 'injuries'. A bit like global warming, these storms are coming along a bit too often.

Rotation is necessary - but Lallana and Sturridge (Slow and Slower) in the same starting eleven, against a team that's going to run around like maniacs, fired up by a rabid crowd and who are going to rough you up a bit? Play one of them, not both, at Anfield, against Fulham, if someone else needs a rest. When you've got a fight on your hands, you leave those two on the bench.

Fabinho might have struggled a bit against Arsenal (other than VVD and Gomez, who didn't?) but he'd have at least thrown a few tackles in last night.

I don't go along with the Alisson criticism. The guy leathers it, don't know if anyone's going to stop that. 2nd goal is obvioulsy on Milner, then Gini and also on Matip who fannied about like a fairy instead of closing down the space and throwing his body at it. Mtip started off well enough at the club, but he's just not strong or aggressive enough. And Lovren - how often is he 'ill'?!

 

Hands up anyone who thinks we've a chance of winning in Paris, or even beat Napoli by 2 clear goals? Desperate to be proved wrong here, boys.......

Was going to rep you until I read the Allison comment. My guess is that 9 out of 10 keepers in the CL will stop that shot.

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