Chelsea (h) 26/09/2018 - Carabao Cup

[johnsusername]

If we'd made only one or two changes we'd have won, quite comfortably I think. That many changes though was always going to be difficult and we were unlucky in the end.

 

I don't like Klopp calling out Shaqiri after the match and the press conference, that doesn't seem like his style. 

 

The game was obviously at the bottom of Klopp's priority list, so it's odd that he seemed so angry.

[Einch]

12 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Nice finish, and he's a brilliant footballer. Still, I can see that move breaking down a little earlier if Milner, Robertson and Van Dijk are the obstacles.

One of them should have fouled him. 

[aRdja]

24 minutes ago, Einch said:

One of them should have fouled him. 

Keita had several opportunities to, and given that bookings don’t carry over to the league, he should’ve risked it.

[Ne Moe Imya]

59 minutes ago, The Guest said:

I don’t think Fabinho did too badly once he settled.  I think Klopp had him moving around to stop Fabregas and to be fair it worked.

Fabinho was a funny one last night.

 

For the first 20 minutes or so he looked like one of the worst players to ever pull on a red shirt. I'm talking Christian Poulsen-level of play. Didn't have a clue where he was supposed to be, and much, much worse, he didn't look arsed. There was a moment where Chelsea got into the box and someone pulled it back to the penalty spot where the move eventually fell apart, but it was very telling that Fabinho was standing outside the box, just watching, not even trying to get there to break up the pass.

 

But then something happened. He had about 10 minutes where he was just OK, sort of started to find his feet. And then after that he was fine. Not quite outstanding, but he was solid and he did well. It continued all second half.

 

I hate the cliche of players from abroad needing to "adapt to the pace of the Premier League" as if every team in Germany or France plays languid football, but it definitely seemed there was some adaptation going on there for Fabinho.

[VladimirIlyich]

1 hour ago, El Rojo said:

Paulie D - the liverpoolway's second best ITK and finest mathematician.

There is a better ITK on TLW than Paulie D? Its matthewbet isnt it?

[Trumo]

Disappointing. We were the architects of our own downfall, and continue to struggle to beat Chelsea at Anfield. The last time we managed it was at the fag end of Kenny's second spell in charge - a 4-1 win in a dead-rubber league game a few days after being beaten by the same opposition in the FA Cup final.

 

Our back 5 screamed 'back up' and yet they were all first choices under Klopp 2 seasons ago. There really wasn't an awful lot they did wrong but it's still a unit well versed in conceding goals. Mignolet didn't do anything wrong but he is still a goalkeeper used to conceding goals on an alarmingly frequent basis. We conceded more than a goal a game on average when Mignolet was the regular first choice between the sticks.

 

Moreno was being targetted and was given a bit of a chasing at times. He's been getting all sorts of shit on social media for his part in Hazard's goal but that viewpoint discounts two things. Firstly, if you're expecting Moreno to snuff out the danger there, you are assuming he is a far more accomplished defender than he is. Strange, considering you've been calling him the shittest of the shit for years now. Secondly, far better players than Moreno have been made a mug out of by Hazard because the Belgian is that good a player. It was a fantastic goal. You can pick faults in the way we handled the situation but to deny that it was outstanding play by Hazard is to not give due credit to the player for making that happen. No-one was shitting on the Spurs defence when Salah danced through them to give us a 2-1 lead in the league game at Anfield last season. It was all about the brilliance of the Egyptian.

 

Keita visibly tiring near the end meant he only put in a half-hearted challenge to win the ball back from Hazard. I noticed that Keita regularly failed to complete 90 minutes at Leipzig last season because he'd put so much into the first hour or so that the tank became empty. The energy wasn't there against a comparatively fresh Hazard (who is strong enough to do that at any time during a game anyway).

 

I hate it when we lose any game but I guess there are positives to come out of this one. It frees up the schedule between now and January, and there is no need to select a back 5 unit that has run its course.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

13 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

Fabinho was a funny one last night.

 

For the first 20 minutes or so he looked like one of the worst players to ever pull on a red shirt. I'm talking Christian Poulsen-level of play. Didn't have a clue where he was supposed to be, and much, much worse, he didn't look arsed. There was a moment where Chelsea got into the box and someone pulled it back to the penalty spot where the move eventually fell apart, but it was very telling that Fabinho was standing outside the box, just watching, not even trying to get there to break up the pass.

 

But then something happened. He had about 10 minutes where he was just OK, sort of started to find his feet. And then after that he was fine. Not quite outstanding, but he was solid and he did well. It continued all second half.

 

I hate the cliche of players from abroad needing to "adapt to the pace of the Premier League" as if every team in Germany or France plays languid football, but it definitely seemed there was some adaptation going on there for Fabinho.

 

I don't think it's the league that our new players need to adapt to as much as it's Klopp's tactics; Robertson being a key example of someone bought from another domestic side. The pace of the league added to what Klopp expects though makes it a tough ask for overseas players who haven't come from sides playing a similar style. The biggest hurdle seems to be the fact that he - like other progressive coaches - focusses on responsibilities over formations, so knowing where you should be on the pitch is secondary to knowing how your role dovetails with those around you.

 

We're evolving into a more stable side, but we're still very fluid both with and without the ball, meaning that someone like Fabinho can't just take up a position and expect he's in the right place, he needs to adapt as things unfold and work on key partnerships with other players, understanding where they are, where they'll be, and moving accordingly. That'll take time.

[VladimirIlyich]

1 minute ago, Trumo said:

Disappointing. We were the architects of our own downfall, and continue to struggle to beat Chelsea at Anfield. The last time we managed it was at the fag end of Kenny's second spell in charge - a 4-1 win in a dead-rubber league game a few days after being beaten by the same opposition in the FA Cup final.

 

Our back 5 screamed 'back up' and yet they were all first choices under Klopp 2 seasons ago. There really wasn't an awful lot they did wrong but it's still a unit well versed in conceding goals. Mignolet didn't do anything wrong but he is still a goalkeeper used to conceding goals on an alarmingly frequent basis. We conceded more than a goal a game on average when Mignolet was the regular first choice between the sticks.

 

Moreno was being targetted and was given a bit of a chasing at times. He's been getting all sorts of shit on social media for his part in Hazard's goal but that viewpoint discounts two things. Firstly, if you're expecting Moreno to snuff out the danger there, you are assuming he is a far more accomplished defender than he is. Strange, considering you've been calling him the shittest of the shit for years now. Secondly, far better players than Moreno have been made a mug out of by Hazard because the Belgian is that good a player. It was a fantastic goal. You can pick faults in the way we handled the situation but to deny that it was outstanding play by Hazard is to not give due credit to the player for making that happen. No-one was shitting on the Spurs defence when Salah danced through them to give us a 2-1 lead in the league game at Anfield last season. It was all about the brilliance of the Egyptian.

 

Keita visibly tiring near the end meant he only put in a half-hearted challenge to win the ball back from Hazard. I noticed that Keita regularly failed to complete 90 minutes at Leipzig last season because he'd put so much into the first hour or so that the tank became empty. The energy wasn't there against a comparatively fresh Hazard (who is strong enough to do that at any time during a game anyway).

 

I hate it when we lose any game but I guess there are positives to come out of this one. It frees up the schedule between now and January, and there is no need to select a back 5 unit that has run its course.

The idea is that you give 'possible' replacements for first teamers a run out in these games,but why the fuck are we playing Moreno? If we left him on the pitch at Anfield for every second of the next five years versus no opposition he would still be shite. As I said earlier,if Robbo gets injured I'd play Milner,TAA,Clyne or even Gomez or Fabinho ahead of that clown.

[The Guest]

8 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

 

I don't think it's the league that our new players need to adapt to as much as it's Klopp's tactics; Robertson being a key example of someone bought from another domestic side. The pace of the league added to what Klopp expects though makes it a tough ask for overseas players who haven't come from sides playing a similar style. The biggest hurdle seems to be the fact that he - like other progressive coaches - focusses on responsibilities over formations, so knowing where you should be on the pitch is secondary to knowing how your role dovetails with those around you.

 

We're evolving into a more stable side, but we're still very fluid both with and without the ball, meaning that someone like Fabinho can't just take up a position and expect he's in the right place, he needs to adapt as things unfold and work on key partnerships with other players, understanding where they are, where they'll be, and moving accordingly. That'll take time.

I generally agree with this other than the Robertson point.  He was ready to go from the off in my opinion.  He showed it in that early Palace game last season.  He was our best player and then not seen again properly for months.  His position is not like the midfield positions which are played like no other midfield positions I’ve ever seen before which is why I think Fabinho is being kept out and Ox was as well.

 

I think Moreno starting last year relatively well and not making any mistakes is what stopped Klopp putting Robertson in.  That and the fact I reckon Klopp had to be convinced by him.  You can see with certain players he just has an instant trust and they are straight in the team and others it takes a while.

[El Rojo]

26 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

There is a better ITK on TLW than Paulie D? Its matthewbet isnt it?

PM'd.

[Ne Moe Imya]

26 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

 

I don't think it's the league that our new players need to adapt to as much as it's Klopp's tactics; Robertson being a key example of someone bought from another domestic side. The pace of the league added to what Klopp expects though makes it a tough ask for overseas players who haven't come from sides playing a similar style. The biggest hurdle seems to be the fact that he - like other progressive coaches - focusses on responsibilities over formations, so knowing where you should be on the pitch is secondary to knowing how your role dovetails with those around you.

 

We're evolving into a more stable side, but we're still very fluid both with and without the ball, meaning that someone like Fabinho can't just take up a position and expect he's in the right place, he needs to adapt as things unfold and work on key partnerships with other players, understanding where they are, where they'll be, and moving accordingly. That'll take time.

That's a very good point, actually.

 

Maybe last night some of his problem wasn't so much that he wasn't arsed, it's that he's overthinking everything. Like, instead of just having the experience in the system to know where he needs to be, leaving him free to just play good football, he's having to spend mental energy just concentrating all the time thinking about where he needs to move. It was almost bizarre at the start of last night - a player who showed so much skill at Monaco just walking around the centre of the pitch like he was playing for the first time in his life and had no idea what he was meant to be doing.

 

Fortunately he did seem to very much grow into the game. By the time the second half rolled around he looked OK. Still not great, but at least reasonably competent.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I'm probably going against the consensus with this, but if I had the choice to win one and lose one against Chelsea this week, I would have chosen to win the cup game. The simple fact is that if you lose a league game, you're no less in the running for that trophy than you were before; there are no second chances in the cups.

[moof]

4 hours ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

In his post-match press conference he seems to address it by claiming he said why didn't he shoot when through on goal, instead he turned and slipped over and the chance went.

Fair criticism. We wasted fuckloads of chances, again

[moof]

22 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I'm probably going against the consensus with this, but if I had the choice to win one and lose one against Chelsea this week, I would have chosen to win the cup game. The simple fact is that if you lose a league game, you're no less in the running for that trophy than you were before; there are no second chances in the cups.

I disagree. As long as we keep marching on in the league, all is well

[joe_fishfish]

I thought the first half and then Hazard's performance boded extremely badly for our prospects at the weekend. I'd be happy with a point.

[Skrtel Milk]

12 hours ago, an tha said:

I will probably get shot for this but i stand by what i say....tonight is yet another example of why we as a football club don't win things any more....

 

Yes we can argue about fine margins, little moments, if we had our best team, being undone by whatever - but fact is it happened and it happens to us year in year out in knockout football too often.

 

Nobody's getting shot. And what's the example? We lost to Chelsea. A team with world class players. If Sturridge's shot goes in with 10 minutes to go, we're 2-0 up. These things happens.

My point is; it seems what you're saying is that we are a bad cup side. It sounds like we've never even near the trophies and it's a continuing problem. For the last four seasons we've been to three finals and we've been knocked out of three semi's. Those are not bad numbers.  Our problem is the mentality on the last day when it matters the most. We are a good cup side with too many players who don't know how to win finals.

If I've misinterpreted your post, feel free to gun me down.

[Lario]

2 hours ago, aRdja said:

Keita had several opportunities to, and given that bookings don’t carry over to the league, he should’ve risked it.

Keita was already on a yellow.

 

Are you saying that if he'd gotten another one, the suspension wouldn't have counted in the league?

[aRdja]

13 minutes ago, Lario said:

Keita was already on a yellow.

 

Are you saying that if he'd gotten another one, the suspension wouldn't have counted in the league?

I’m sure I read somewhere that bookings now don’t carry over to different competitions. 

[Aventus]

1 hour ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

That's a very good point, actually.

 

Maybe last night some of his problem wasn't so much that he wasn't arsed, it's that he's overthinking everything. Like, instead of just having the experience in the system to know where he needs to be, leaving him free to just play good football, he's having to spend mental energy just concentrating all the time thinking about where he needs to move. It was almost bizarre at the start of last night - a player who showed so much skill at Monaco just walking around the centre of the pitch like he was playing for the first time in his life and had no idea what he was meant to be doing.

 

Fortunately he did seem to very much grow into the game. By the time the second half rolled around he looked OK. Still not great, but at least reasonably competent.

 

That was my thoughts on Fab. 

 

His first proper game for us, against a half decent side, I reckon he was spending too much time worrying about fucking up, rather than having a general awareness of what's going on around him and getting stuck in. Once he got over the initial anxiety he grew into the game, and I think from this point on he's only going to get better and better. 

 

Put it this way, if Klopp picked me to start that game and told me I was playing in centre mid, then I'd probably be shitting myself incase I go too far forwards, backwards or sideways because I'd be out of position. 

Then after getting a bollocking off Klopp for not moving around enough I'd start getting more involved around the pitch, gradually becoming more comfortable as I do so. 

 

I know Fabinho is going to be held to a higher standard than me, but I imagine the same applies at least a tiny bit. 

 

Some players like VVD have the personality and confidence to start immediately and on his debut be bossing other players about like he's been here years, others need to grow into the role. 

 

I'm not worried. 

[Evelyn Tentions]

5 hours ago, joe_fishfish said:

He was. Mainly going forward. But he needs to be very good all the time against a side like Chelsea. Has a tendency to switch off defensively, that cannot happen in a Klopp team. We can't afford any passengers.

Can't afford any passengers?

Moreno, A.

If that name is on the teamsheet, we're not taking the game seriously.

 

[sir roger]

I agree with the 'not taking the shot' criticism , but I was sat by the late free kick & Klopp suggesting that Salah was in loads of space and in on the goalie if Shaq had passed it go him doesn't square with my memory of the incident , and he would have to have wrestled his captain ( who was desperate to take it ) off the ball.

 

Putting the rights and wrongs of the incident/s to one side my bafflement was why he had to embarrass Shaqiri in public at all. Let's take Moreno as an example , a guy who has put in some of the worst performances ever seen in a red shirt and even cost us trophies , but I can't ever recall him being dug out by Klopp on the pitch after a game.

[Dave D]

52 minutes ago, sir roger said:

I agree with the 'not taking the shot' criticism , but I was sat by the late free kick & Klopp suggesting that Salah was in loads of space and in on the goalie if Shaq had passed it go him doesn't square with my memory of the incident , and he would have to have wrestled his captain ( who was desperate to take it ) off the ball.

 

Putting the rights and wrongs of the incident/s to one side my bafflement was why he had to embarrass Shaqiri in public at all. Let's take Moreno as an example , a guy who has put in some of the worst performances ever seen in a red shirt and even cost us trophies , but I can't ever recall him being dug out by Klopp on the pitch after a game.

 

Agreed- giving someone stick on the pitch over one pass/kick after 90mins of effort isnt good management- especially the player that you hooked at half time who was playing well the game before.

  

[Guest Alex_K]

4 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The simple fact is that if you lose a league game, you're no less in the running for that trophy than you were before

 

This is simple, but it certainly is not a fact. The league game is by a million miles the most important of the two fixtures this week.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

18 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I can't believe I scaled the epistaxical heights of Row 93 for this.

Repped for use of an outstanding word.

[magicrat]

Sturridge had his best game for years last night, Shaquiri was excellent, Keita improved and most of the rest played OK. Moreno was garbage as was Fabinho if were honest. 2 nd string team lost narrowly to a stronger Chelsea outfit on paper as a result of shit officiating.

It was always going to be tight and we came out in the wrong side this time. I take some comfort from the fact we have a back-up team that is good enough to beat most teams .

I think we will win on Saturday