A few thoughts from the Southampton game - by Paul Natton

[Guest Alex_K]

6 hours ago, Paul said:

This is just the way football is discussed now. It used to be in the pub with the 5, 10, 15 lads you went to the match or drank with, but now it's online with fellas who live hundreds or thousands of miles apart that you'll almost certainly never meet in the flesh (apologies to NP whose Canadian presence was very welcome yesterday).

 

Bit of a cliche thing to say this -- when, the 1960s? Because for decades there have been phone-ins, for decades before the internet there were fanzines with contrasting opinions and write-in sections .. the idea that is bandied about as if football was only discussed in little mini enclaves before first the "Sky generation" and more lately "Twitter generation" is a bit fanciful. Sure, some of the comments are more vitriolic and sensationalist now, but there was also plenty of vitriol in the public forum before ...

 

Henderson is useful against the sides that want to play on to us .. when he's given the ball for long periods of time against deep sides without any space opening up in front he doesn't really know what to do with it. He -- and Emre Can -- are both pretty big reasons for our poor recent record against United's Mourinho-football. But with Keita & Shaqiri at the club in a more adventurous capacity, hopefully those limitations don't surface too much this year. Of the first 11 though, Henderson is probably the least-important/most replaceable (that's not an inherent criticism, I'd just be interested to hear of any other player who people think is less important to balance of the side).

[Paul]

9 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

 

Bit of a cliche thing to say this -- when, the 1960s? Because for decades there have been phone-ins, for decades before the internet there were fanzines with contrasting opinions and write-in sections .. the idea that is bandied about as if football was only discussed in little mini enclaves before first the "Sky generation" and more lately "Twitter generation" is a bit fanciful. Sure, some of the comments are more vitriolic and sensationalist now, but there was also plenty of vitriol in the public forum before ...

 

Henderson is useful against the sides that want to play on to us .. when he's given the ball for long periods of time against deep sides without any space opening up in front he doesn't really know what to do with it. He -- and Emre Can -- are both pretty big reasons for our poor recent record against United's Mourinho-football. But with Keita & Shaqiri at the club in a more adventurous capacity, hopefully those limitations don't surface too much this year. Of the first 11 though, Henderson is probably the least-important/most replaceable (that's not an inherent criticism, I'd just be interested to hear of any other player who people think is less important to balance of the side).

A cliché? Tell me about this worldwide method of mass communication you were using constantly to discuss footy with complete strangers thousands of miles away before 4G phones. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Gaël Clichy currently plays for İstanbul Başakşehir, incase anybody else was wondering.

[Captain Turdseye]

34 minutes ago, Paul said:

A cliché? Tell me about this worldwide method of mass communication you were using constantly to discuss footy with complete strangers thousands of miles away before 4G phones. 

 

I’ve been doing it since 3G. 

[Guest Alex_K]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

A cliché? Tell me about this worldwide method of mass communication you were using constantly to discuss footy with complete strangers thousands of miles away before 4G phones. 

 

Very touchy, aren’t you? Your assertion missed out a few decades, that’s all. Football fandom didn’t not leap straight from the working mans club to Twitter; fans didn’t become hyper-critical overnight. It has always been there in various guises.

[dylstar]

Just unfollowed all the TLW members on Twitter ........backstabbing cunts

[TheBitch]

9 hours ago, TK421 said:

Paul's tirade against the Hendo haters is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen on the Internet, and I've visited some pretty fucked up websites in my time.  Heh.  

 

I particularly liked his "too stupid to support Liverpool" quip from the PSG "Few Thoughts".  A superb definition of some of the regulars around here.  Well played, Natton. 

 

Internet gobshite bollocks bad beauts... is fucking right.

 

*goes back to lurking because you're all twats*

 

 

Genuinely put a smile on my face. Welcome back TK 124

[TheBitch]

8 hours ago, Scrump said:

Would there be anything left? 

WHOA! STEADY!!

[TheBitch]

Henderson should

4 hours ago, Alex_K said:

 

He -- and Emre Can -- are both pretty big reasons for our poor recent record against United's Mourinho-football. 

Henderson should start against the Mancs for sure. He should be one of the first names on the team sheet against all of the top 6. 

I can see the argument for not starting him against some shit teams, but his performance in midweek was immense. I can't remember him having a game that wasn't a 7 or better against our closest rivals.

[Guest Alex_K]

17 minutes ago, TheBitch said:

Henderson should

Henderson should start against the Mancs for sure. He should be one of the first names on the team sheet against all of the top 6. 

I can see the argument for not starting him against some shit teams, but his performance in midweek was immense. I can't remember him having a game that wasn't a 7 or better against our closest rivals.

 

Liverpool 0 - Manchester United 0, Anfield 2016

Liverpool 0 - Manchester United 0, Anfield 2017

 

There's two for you as a starter for 10, both games characterised by slow drudgery from the midfield 2 of Henderson/Can. It is a mistake to think that "all of the top 6" play the same way and require the same personnel. They don't. City -- a team against which Henderson will probably excel on the 7th -- are a very different proposition to United. And besides, we took 2 wins from 10 games against the rest of the top 6 last season. That is not remotely good enough, and not remotely reminiscient of consistent 7/10 games.

 

The continued emergence of the full-backs will be a boon this year, but so will the new midfielders as the year goes on. There's a reason we invested so heavily there in the summer.

[Judge]

Good read as usual, Paul.

 

The Henderson part is spot on. He is criminally underrated. For me he is a 8/10 player who deserves a 9/10 sometimes and never under 6/10. If he hadn`t got the red card against City in 2014 number 19 would have been sealed that year. 

[Remmie]

Fuck off Paul you affable, positive, article writing for free thundercunt. If I say Hendo wanks off pigs, you best agree, you hear?

[Dr Nowt]

Wouldn’t wank them off himself though, would he? No. He’d spend all day pointing at pigs he wanted other people to wank off. 

 

Souness; now there’s a man who wasn’t afraid of a drop of pig spunk.  Proper leader.

 

 

[TheBitch]

If anyone knows about pigs it's Remmie.

[VladimirIlyich]

Totally agree with point number 8.

[Paul]

On 9/23/2018 at 1:47 PM, ZonkoVille77 said:

Hendo gets a lot of unnecessary abuse.

He's also not as good as his fans make him out to be. 6/10 player. If he was a biscuit he'd be a Rich Tea.

All that aside, he is a vital part of how this team works. He's an excellent pro who's influence likely extends beyond the football field. 

 

You don't know what you've got until it's gone. 

He’s always a 7/10 player for me and quite often an 8/10. Not sure I’ve ever seen better than that from him though. However, if that level of consistency is a bad thing then I just think that’s cloud cuckoo land expectations. 

[Paul]

23 hours ago, Alex_K said:

 

Very touchy, aren’t you? Your assertion missed out a few decades, that’s all. Football fandom didn’t not leap straight from the working mans club to Twitter; fans didn’t become hyper-critical overnight. It has always been there in various guises.

Not touchy at all mate. Just thought your point was daft and said so. 

 

I see now that you’re making a different point though which makes more sense. However, that has nothing to do with my point about extreme criticism online which was that it is much louder and becomes received wisdom. If you doubt the veracity of that, check out the number of national newspapers that now report Twitter bollocks as news. I mean literally report what someone said on Twitter as a news story. There weren’t ever any news stories in The Echo about “pissed fella in ale house says Ronnie Whelan is shite” back in the 80s. 

 

Twitter makes this this shit far more pernicious. And the players are directly exposed to it too. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

25 minutes ago, Paul said:

He’s always a 7/10 player for me and quite often an 8/10. Not sure I’ve ever seen better than that from him though. However, if that level of consistency is a bad thing then I just think that’s cloud cuckoo land expectations. 

He is our Captain though, Paul. If, like me, you think he’s just a dependable professional, I think it’s fair to say that’s not enough. But, that said, I don’t work with him every day. The manager does, and he thinks it’s right. I’m more interested about winning than Hendo to be honest. Up the reds. If mild disagreement about a good professional is as bad as it gets this season, we are in for a hell of a ride.

[ZonkoVille77]

10 minutes ago, Paul said:

He’s always a 7/10 player for me and quite often an 8/10. Not sure I’ve ever seen better than that from him though. However, if that level of consistency is a bad thing then I just think that’s cloud cuckoo land expectations. 

 

There's no doubting his consistency and we were worse off for him being banned when we finished 2nd under Rodgers. Every team needs a Hendo type player. I can't recall him ever letting us down, probably because he never takes a risk. 

 

I like the lad but a bit more bravery and adventure wouldn't be too much to ask for in an LFC captain. 

[Paul]

Don’t really disagree with either of those comments there, lads. 

[aws]

I'm happy enough with him in the squad but wish he could find his shooting boots again. He used to chip in with a few goals now and again but has given up trying now it seems. 

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

 

 

Twitter makes this this shit far more pernicious. And the players are directly exposed to it too. 

Any sauce only carries as much weight as you are willing to give it. There may be a fair few folk who dont look at Twitter at all. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

The stuff about no one voicing a negative opinion about Henderson at the match is utter tripe. Booked an appointment with my Doctor for tomorrow as i’ve clearly been hearing voices for years. A decent player, lauded wrongly by some and slaughtered harshly by others. Me included on occasion. 

If he was a car he would be a Fiat Grande Punto. Opinions aye!

 

[dave u]

On 9/23/2018 at 1:47 PM, ZonkoVille77 said:

Hendo gets a lot of unnecessary abuse.

He's also not as good as his fans make him out to be. 6/10 player. If he was a biscuit he'd be a Rich Tea.

All that aside, he is a vital part of how this team works. He's an excellent pro who's influence likely extends beyond the football field. 

 

You don't know what you've got until it's gone. 

 

I wouldn't dispute most of that, but if he was a 6/10 player he wouldn't still be here, let alone as captain and a regular in the team. He's just been given a new contract too, even though eh still had a couple of years left to run. Klopp doesn't settle for mediocrity so he obviously rates Hendo a lot more highly than a lot of our fans do. You can tell whenever Klopp is asked about criticism of Hendo that he's just got complete and utter disdain for it and genuinely can't understand it.

 

I agree with Paul. Hendo is a popular player with the crowd. There will be the odd groan here and then when the game isn't going how we'd like and he plays a 'safe' pass instead of channeling his inner Stevie, but for the most part the match crowd like Henderson a lot.

 

Then you see the absolute agenda driven fucking nonsense posted about him on various social media platforms (twitter being the one I'm best placed to comment on as I frequent it the most). It just doesn't tie in with the reality of the situation.

 

Not fit to be captain. Bang average player. Shouldn't be in the team etc 

 

We've won every game, we're top of the league, and some people want to continually fucking bitch about the captain. It's bizarre. I mean fair enough if we had some dickhead manager who didn't know what he was doing, but that's not the case is it. To listen to some of our fans you'd think Hendo was Christian Poulsen.

 

So yeah, maybe you'll also get some who go a little bit far the other way, but I've never seen anyone (even his biggest fanboys) putting him in the very top echelon of our midfielders like Souness, Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano & co so I don't think his 'supporters' are as extreme with their views as his detractors are.

 

There is a significant element of our internet fans who are just complete fucking whoppers. Those of you not on twitter will generally not to be too familiar with it, and you should consider yourselves lucky. You only have to look at a good number of the replies on any tweet from the official club account that mentions Hendo to see how bad it is. 

[dave u]

40 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

The stuff about no one voicing a negative opinion about Henderson at the match is utter tripe. Booked an appointment with my Doctor for tomorrow as i’ve clearly been hearing voices for years. A decent player, lauded wrongly by some and slaughtered harshly by others. Me included on occasion. 

If he was a car he would be a Fiat Grande Punto. Opinions aye!

 

Of course you'll get that, I mean fucking hell I've even heard people giving Mo shit (the Main Stand is a tough crowd!) but for the most part the crowd is well and truly with Henderson.