Man City - the new bitters?

[Reckoner]

9 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Depends on years included. We either are the same or they have one more I think. If they lose them all, we get 3 each. If it's only for the years charged I think they get 2 and we get 1. 

Yeah in that case maybe let them keep the stolen Premier League titles

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Hills Chin said:

The loss of any trophies/titles is what I want to see. It needs to show everyone that all the cheating, posturing and threats have amounted to nothing and the club will have that 'cheats' label permanently attached to the records. Everything else is then a bonus.

 

Yep, not arsed about the rest.

 

Fines - irrelevant.

Points deductions - don't care, within a season or two it would be irrelevant.

 

I want everything they've won to be scrubbed out of the record books. Medals given back. The lot.

[Barrington Womble]

5 minutes ago, Reckoner said:

Yeah in that case maybe let them keep the stolen Premier League titles

I'm happy with the idea they lose them, nobody gets them. I'm sure the players wouldn't agree though..

[Reckoner]

6 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I'm happy with the idea they lose them, nobody gets them. I'm sure the players wouldn't agree though..

If Man United got 2 and we got 1 it would be the most ridiculous thing. Especially when you consider 18/19 and 21/22, such an injustice. 
Yeah because the mancs scraped a second place finish they get 2 titles!

I imagine there will be a campaign to have any further titles stripped from them too.

[chrisbonnie]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

Depends on years included. We either are the same or they have one more I think. If they lose them all, we get 3 each. If it's only for the years charged I think they get 2 and we get 1. 

 

wait, what...

[Scott_M]

The Premiership should call their bluff and say “if Man City are so unhappy at the rules agreed by our member clubs, they are welcome to find competition in other associations”.

[Dapower]

Hopefully they’ll be playing Leyton Orient on a regular basis again back where they fucking belong 

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, chrisbonnie said:

 

wait, what...

Because the charges don't cover the times we finished 2nd under klopp, they're 10 years from 2009 to 2018. This is how it'll break down

 

2012 man united

2014 Liverpool 

2018 Man United 

 

Then after the charge period it goes

2019 Liverpool

2021 man united 

2022 Liverpool

2023 arsenal

2024 arsenal

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

3 hours ago, Reckoner said:

If Man United got 2 and we got 1 it would be the most ridiculous thing. Especially when you consider 18/19 and 21/22, such an injustice. 
Yeah because the mancs scraped a second place finish they get 2 titles!

I imagine there will be a campaign to have any further titles stripped from them too.

 

2nd place is 1st place if 1st place is disqualified. That's why I don't think they should be retrospectively awarded. If you were chasing man united down in 2018 for example, you might approach things differently if they were your target to win. We finished 6 points off them, spurs 4. But they were 19 behind city. Obviously none of us were chasing down first, it's a completely different pressure and we were all just fighting for the same reward, a place in the CL. 

[dave u]

20 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Because the charges don't cover the times we finished 2nd under klopp, they're 10 years from 2009 to 2018.

 

I've been thinking about this and I wonder if there will be more charges further down the line? They didn't stop cheating, they just stopped submitting their accounts. And because there isn't any hacked emails after that date it's harder to prove, but the non-compliance should be enough to retrospectively take points off them.

[Bobby Hundreds]

None compliance should come with an even harsher punishment.

[Reckoner]

2 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

I've been thinking about this and I wonder if there will be more charges further down the line? They didn't stop cheating, they just stopped submitting their accounts. And because there isn't any hacked emails after that date it's harder to prove, but the non-compliance should be enough to retrospectively take points off them.

Yeah this is what I was trying to say. Plus they only got in that position through cheating. The later titles can’t be allowed to stand either.

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

I've been thinking about this and I wonder if there will be more charges further down the line? They didn't stop cheating, they just stopped submitting their accounts. And because there isn't any hacked emails after that date it's harder to prove, but the non-compliance should be enough to retrospectively take points off them.

I don't know mate. There is deffo none compliance charges after 2018. Although I don't think they didn't submit their accounts, but rather they didn't respond to questions around their PSR/FFP calculations. I think they can be charged if they don't submit their accounts and calculations.  And of courses everything after 2018 is dependent on everything before 2018, CL qualification, prize money, the value of their sponsorship deals. 

[dave u]

That's the thing, they're winning trophies with players they should never have been able to sign.

[Einch]

They do have charges for recent non-compliance as well. 

[Barrington Womble]

17 minutes ago, Einch said:

They do have charges for recent non-compliance as well. 

Yeah, but that's all there is for recent years. 

[Scott_M]

I’m a bit on the fence with some of the non-compliance stuff. 
 

Given the basis of this case is the hacked emails, I can see why they wouldn’t want to co-operate. Why should they? The obtaining of the evidence was illegal. 

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, dave u said:

That's the thing, they're winning trophies with players they should never have been able to sign.

It's not me you have to convince! 

[Megadrive Man]

26 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

I’m a bit on the fence with some of the non-compliance stuff. 
 

Given the basis of this case is the hacked emails, I can see why they wouldn’t want to co-operate. Why should they? The obtaining of the evidence was illegal. 

 

It's the thing that most proves they are guilty. 

 

It's the same tactics all guilty people use which is to tie things up in legal red tape and kick the can down the road  for as long as possible. If they had nothing to hide they'd at least co-operative with the Premier League.

 

Even a team like Chelsea have been co-operating with the Premier League over some shady deals they were doing under Abramovic.

 

They should be kicked out of the league for non cooperation alone.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Non compliance should be treated the same as refusing a drug test. Assumed as an admission of guilt and handed the same punishment.

[Engineman Hicks]

I think it has massively affected the players and the manager, if they lose they know that all their achievements will be tainted. For the rest of their lives, people will say they cheated. All respect gone. 

[Smell The Glove]

3 minutes ago, Engineman Hicks said:

I think it has massively affected the players and the manager, if they lose they know that all their achievements will be tainted. For the rest of their lives, people will say they cheated. All respect gone. 

They're tainted now, we just want it rubber stamped.

[Section_31]

It only takes one charge to stick and the brand is ruined, that's what they are, a brand. 

[Barrington Womble]

40 minutes ago, Engineman Hicks said:

I think it has massively affected the players and the manager, if they lose they know that all their achievements will be tainted. For the rest of their lives, people will say they cheated. All respect gone. 

 

On a pure sporting level, it's not really the players fault - although of course they've benefitted from the owners cheating. It's definitely different from when we see athletes or even footballers drugs cheat. The players themselves have not cheated. It's those above them who have. 

[razor]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

On a pure sporting level, it's not really the players fault - although of course they've benefitted from the owners cheating. It's definitely different from when we see athletes or even footballers drugs cheat. The players themselves have not cheated. It's those above them who have.