Man City - the new bitters?

[Fallen Angel]

11 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

That's all nonsense.

 

City are a joke of a club, a plague on football but Guardiola is simply a great manager who has elevated them to hights unseen in this league and they will in all likelihood win the Champions League. 

 

I don't understand why people can't seperate the two. It's just being unable to admit certain objective truths, really. 

it really isn’t any such thing. He’s just in positions where absolutely everything this weighted massively in his favour - take away that huge financial disparity, the success dries up completely. 

[No2]

10 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I think its an absurd argument.

Its like saying leonardo di caprio isnt a great actor becacuse he doesnt do am-dram performances at the local church on Friday night.

whatever you think of his as a person he is a driven and innovative coach.

Ive got a mate who is convinced  that within 5 years,he will be managing liverpool.

Di Caprio managing Liverpool? Can't see it, Todd Boehly might look at him for Chelsea. Could he be any worse than Lampard?

[Barrington Womble]

14 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I think its an absurd argument.

Its like saying leonardo di caprio isnt a great actor becacuse he doesnt do am-dram performances at the local church on Friday night.

whatever you think of his as a person he is a driven and innovative coach.

Ive got a mate who is convinced  that within 5 years,he will be managing liverpool.

I've no doubt he'd love to manage us. But clearly that's not going to happen. 

[Arniepie]

3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I've no doubt he'd love to manage us. But clearly that's not going to happen. 

im not sure

once he wins the champions league with them he will fuck off.

in a few years time..who knows? 

[Manny]

Guardiola has had a fairly unique career trajectory in that he's never worked anywhere with a massively different definition of success. Most managers will start somewhere lower down where success equals promotion, or staying up, or European qualification or whatever. Then they move up a tier and the definition of success and the weight of expectation changes and they're judged again.

 

Guardiola has only ever managed at Barcelona, Bayern and Man City - so he's only ever managed clubs where the budgets are big and the expectations are similar. He's never going to go down a level - nobody does unless they fail - but we've never seen him manage to different expectations and we likely never will. I don't think it lessens his standing in the game particularly, although it will always make him be seen as a successful manager but not necessarily a versatile one.

 

For what it's worth I think City suits him to the ground. I've always felt like he's a footy nerd, like he believes that somewhere out there is an all-conquering football equation; a system that with the right players will execute the perfect season. Manchester City is the closest thing you'll get in football to a high end research lab (sterile and well-funded enough to take a lot of variables out of the equation) so as long as he gets free reign and an unlimited budget to continue his search then he's happy.

 

Klopp and a few other managers are very different animals, I reckon. They love the sport for its unpredictability and the joy that comes from beating that. They'd never enjoy winning on a loaded dice, basically - whereas Guardiola would enjoy the technicalities of loading the dice and the legacy of being the first person to roll ten sixes in a row or whatever.

[Manny]

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Edited April 24, 2023 by Manny
double post

[Barrington Womble]

56 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

im not sure

once he wins the champions league with them he will fuck off.

in a few years time..who knows? 

I reckon if he leaves there (hasn't he just signed a new deal?), he wouldn't come right to us from there. I also don't expect  our owners would be looking for a manager who's only proved he can do it when he has the best hand.

[TheHowieLama]

Guardiola is the Cristiano Ronaldo of managers.

[Jairzinho]

In the last 11 years he's won the same amount of European cups as Roy Hodgson.

[sh#t waffle]

I think Guardiola is an absolutely brilliant manager. He's a weird fucking nerd, but an absolutely brilliant manager nonetheless. We just happen to have an even better one, who's not a weird fucking nerd.

[Arniepie]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

I reckon if he leaves there (hasn't he just signed a new deal?), he wouldn't come right to us from there. I also don't expect  our owners would be looking for a manager who's only proved he can do it when he has the best hand.

oh yeah he wouldnt come straight here.

given the chance though,personally I think he would jump at it.

[Code]

Guardiola is an absolutely amazing manager.

 

Those who say otherwise are a bit clueless really. 

[Bjornebye]

 

 

[El Rojo]

The flip side of the 'silver spoon' argument is probably that there's a very particular skill in managing big money players and egos, which he has always done very well given the number of titles he's won in three leagues. 

 

Wouldn't ever be swapping him for Klopp, though.

 

And he's vastly underachieved in Europe. 

[TD_LFC]

14 minutes ago, Code said:

Guardiola is an absolutely amazing manager.

 

Those who say otherwise are a bit clueless really. 

 

He is.

 

He's also massively underachieved on the biggest stage given the resources available to him at every club he's been at. every club is probably unfair, Bayern should have probably won it at least once but he's certainly underperformed at City given some of the teams he's lost to (most of whom had less resources) and the nature of the losses.

 

Monaco

Lyon

Spurs

Liverpool

Chelsea

Madrid

 

I think both statements can be true.

[manwiththestick]

17 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

The flip side of the 'silver spoon' argument is probably that there's a very particular skill in managing big money players and egos, which he has always done very well given the number of titles he's won in three leagues. 

 

Wouldn't ever be swapping him for Klopp, though.

 

And he's vastly underachieved in Europe. 

It's easier to manage high profile, big money players if you can bomb them out at a massive loss and replace them without worrying about P&L.

[No2]

12 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

The flip side of the 'silver spoon' argument is probably that there's a very particular skill in managing big money players and egos, which he has always done very well given the number of titles he's won in three leagues. 

 

Wouldn't ever be swapping him for Klopp, though.

 

And he's vastly underachieved in Europe. 

It's not a silver spoon though, it's something way beyond that, that even Madrid and Barcelona managers at their height have never had the luxury off.

 

Man City have the same revenue as Man Utd, Utd have consistently been as rich as anyone and even they haven't been able to just get rid of Phil Jones. I know he's a laughing stock but he's still an asset the accountants need on the books. Man City have 50m left back on loan with Bayern, give on a whim, he was signed to replace another 50m left back who was in jail, the left back before him cost 50m as well but didn't work out so they just got another one. Klopp for example has been stuck with Keita and Ox because there are consequences in the real world for wasting £90m.  The power Pep has to banish a player is like nothing anyone has had since the pre Jimmy Hill days.

 

Nobody, that I have seen has said he's anything other than an amazing manager. Of course he's amazing but if his career ended today where would he rank among the all time greats? He wouldn't be in there, relative to his resources he has failed. 

[KMD7]

He's a brilliant coach, the baldy weirdo.

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, TD_LFC said:

 

He is.

 

He's also massively underachieved on the biggest stage given the resources available to him at every club he's been at. every club is probably unfair, Bayern should have probably won it at least once but he's certainly underperformed at City given some of the teams he's lost to (most of whom had less resources) and the nature of the losses.

 

Monaco

Lyon

Spurs

Liverpool

Chelsea

Madrid

 

I think both statements can be true.

 

No. Everything must be binary.

 

 

[sir roger]

Definitely a red running Paddy Powers social media.

[Jairzinho]

Rightly or wrongly, if you do stuff at the likes of City and PSG people give less of a fuck about your achievements. As others have said, you're not even working within the same parameters as the likes of Real Madrid.

 

He's a great manager at winning league titles because he builds a brand of football that absolutely demolishes shit teams.  However, it's also fair to say that he's won fuck all in Europe without having the best player to have ever played, at his peak, in his team.

 

11 years and he hasn't won a single European cup with Bayern Munich or Manchester City, and the money they have. It's a failure, and he knows it. It clearly fucking eats him up, the little weird, passive aggressive, noncey looking cunt.

[Arniepie]

tbf even ferguson only won it twice in what,17 attempts?

[Jairzinho]

1 minute ago, Arniepie said:

tbf even ferguson only won it twice in what,17 attempts?

 

Yes, he was a relative failure in Europe as well considering his dominance here.

 

He did, however, have the misfortune to run into previously mentioned greatest player ever at his peak on two occasions.

[Arniepie]

1 minute ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Yes, he was a relative failure in Europe as well considering his dominance here.

 

He did, however, have the misfortune to run into previously mentioned greatest player ever at his peak on two occasions.

its weird the european cup.

it does tend to be run historically by teams with a european pedigree,real,liverpool,bayern etc

Im fairly sure the number of teams who have just won it once is relatively small,considering how long its been going for.

[Jairzinho]

9 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

its weird the european cup.

it does tend to be run historically by teams with a european pedigree,real,liverpool,bayern etc

Im fairly sure the number of teams who have just won it once is relatively small,considering how long its been going for.

 

Yeah, in the latter stages of the tournaments having some pedigree, a proper stadium, and vociferous fans counts for a lot. It deals with pressure when the variance, for want of a less cold expression, is so high. A two legged Champions league quarter/semi final is a very different animal to belting Southampton 4-0 at home in November.

 

If the first was in 1955 we must have had 67 European cup finals. Between Real Madrid, Bayern, AC Milan, and us we've won half of them. Every season Real Madrid start at about 14/1 or 16/1 to win it. Every season City start about 7/2. PSG are usually about 7/1. Yet...

 

History counts for a lot more in European football than it does in league football.