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Man City - the new bitters?

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Win the cup in a few weeks, have a massive parade that makes theirs the other day look like a ripple of applause at a corporate function, sing Liverpool songs all night with no mention of them.

 

That will piss them off more that tit for tat.

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1 hour ago, aws said:

They've reported it and now they'll let it quietly drop. 

Sean Cox's brother has condemned City for it now, so it might not just go away as easily as they hope.

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3 minutes ago, manwiththestick said:

Win the cup in a few weeks, have a massive parade that makes theirs the other day look like a ripple of applause at a corporate function, sing Liverpool songs all night with no mention of them.

 

That will piss them off more that tit for tat.

The key for me. 

 

What really riles rival fans and clubs is them simply knowing they can't compete with the history and general aura of the place. 

 

Imagine being a fan of a club that can't even fill its ground for European games and seeing sights like Anfield against Barcelona, and hearing pros like Shearer saying it's the most unforgettable atmosphere at a football ground they've ever experienced. 

 

As I say, seeing Guardiola and the players at that weird shit they pulled in front of their ground just smacked of a club trying to imitate something it couldn't quite understand to the point where it actually becomes embarrassing. Success is alien to them, as is glory and passion, and they can only try and mimic what they've seen on the telly and it just looks and comes across plain daft and desperate. That's probably why they were singing this song, they genuinely probably don't know any others. They're like a 13-year-old boy trying to dry-hump a window ledge because they don't fully understand yet what their dick is for. 

 

To an extent it's similar to what the mancs have  tried to do in the past few years since Ferguson left. They had no bootroom so they tried to buy one, 'Moyes is Scottish like me, I can craft him in my own image'. Oh shit it ddidn't work. 'Giggs is a legend, I'll bring him in'. Oh shit thta didn't work either. Let's try Solksjaer. 

 

They say imitation is the best form of flattery I guess. 

 

Enjoy the anger I'd say, because it comes from a place that says 'fundamentally, deep down, I know your club is better than mine and I only wish I'd made different life choices early on'. 

 

 

 

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Interesting opinion piece from Marina Hyde in The Guardian on FFP and Uefa's enforcement of it.

 

Uefa's 'parking ticket' fines will not rein in football's maverick clubs

Unless it enforces a monster fine or ban on clubs who overstep the mark, Uefa is an employee of those it is supposed to police

 

Reports that Uefa investigators are to recommend Manchester City be banned from the Champions League for a year are certainly eye-catching. According to the New York Times, the European governing body’s sleuths have spent almost a year investigating leaks that allege rule-breaking, and will now push for a competition ban, though that would be subject to forceful legal challenge by City. The accusations centre on the club’s alleged attempts to circumvent financial fair play regulations via disguised cash injections from their Abu Dhabi owners, as well as suggestions that City misled authorities in statements provided to resolve an earlier case.

 

The great puzzle is why misfortune and accusation continue to dog Manchester City in this fashion. It was only in 2014 that the club were fined by Uefa over a previous rule breach, which saw them accept some restrictions on transfers and a £49m fine. In fact, City never paid the full fine, forfeiting only £17m of prize money three years later. Alas, this doesn’t seem to have been the end of it, if documents released over the past year via the Football Leaks website are to be believed. City doesn’t say they aren’t to be believed, only that they are not to be paid any attention to. Time and again they have been forced to characterise this or that leaked email as “hacked”, “stolen”, “out of context”, or “an organised and clear attempt” to besmirch the club’s reputation. Though not, as it goes, “false”.

 

But what of the Uefa investigators, meanwhile, who I like to picture as European football’s internal affairs division? Are they the sort of pen-pushers who have no experience of the frontline job, who are remorseless sticklers for by-the-book procedure, and don’t understand that the maverick cop – in this case, Manchester City Football Club – has to bend those rules a bit to get results? Or are they in the Line of Duty AC-12 mould – willing to absorb all the slings and arrows because they serve a higher moral purpose? You have to hope it’s the latter. Their Ted Hastings, either way, is former Belgian prime minister Yves Leterme, and a veteran of the political crisis in that country when Belgium forewent the pleasure of a government for 535 days. Even so, his current gig is challenging.

Of course, all internal affairs divisions suffer from a certain lack of love from those whom they are charged with investigating. Last year, leaked emails suggested that when Uefa investigator Jean-Luc Dehaene died in 2013, one City lawyer allegedly emailed a colleague with the epitaph: “One down, six to go”.

Back when Fifa’s president, Gianni Infantino, was still Uefa’s general secretary another leaked document allegedly stated a City lawyer had imparted to Infantino club chairman Khaldoon al-Mubarak’s views on punishing them with a fine. According to this lawyer, Al Mubarak would “rather spend £30m on the 50 best lawyers in the world to sue them for the next 10 years.” This, City allegedly informed Infantino, was a great chance for Uefa “to avoid the destruction of their rules and their organisation”.

 

Mmm. It is rather difficult not to see the whole problem crystallised in that reported comment. Multimillion pound fines are essentially a parking ticket to the wealth of the Abu Dhabi-based owners, just as the $5bn fine recently levied on Facebook by the FTC was a parking ticket, swiftly characterised by analysts as “a bargain”.

The Stern professor and author Scott Galloway talks about something called the “algebra of deterrence”. As he defines it, when a deterrent is effective, it is because “the likelihood or the probability of getting caught, times the likely fine, is greater than the upside of continuing to engage in that activity”. Clearly, it is essential that deterrents are set at a level which actually deters. If not, the so-called deterrent actually ends up not simply being ineffective, but value-accretive to the entity it is supposed to punish.

 

This is what happened with Facebook: the ridiculous fine saw the firm’s stock leap as soon as it was made public. As Galloway summarised, it showed the world “that they can continue to engage in the behaviour and it’s going to cost them two weeks of cash flow”. So this kind of “deterrent” is anything but – it actively enables the behaviour it was supposed to punish. On this reading, a government – or, let’s say, a governing body – which indulges in parking ticket fines essentially stops being a countervailing force and becomes a co-conspirator. Galloway’s solution as far as Facebook goes is to “add a zero to that fine, and restore the algebra of deterrence.”

 

As far as Manchester City or any rulebreaking European club goes, then, Uefa needs to think beyond what are basically parking ticket fines. Either they enforce an effective deterrent – a monster fine or competition ban - or they essentially become a helpful employee of those same clubs. Unfortunately, their track record in understanding deterrence is wildly uninspiring, from City’s last fine, to the litany of attempts to deal with racist chanting down the years. As Kick It Out put it in the wake of the abuse England suffered in Montenegro: “fines won’t do. Extended stadium bans or tournament expulsion are what’s needed.”

 

And so with clubs who refuse to play by Uefa’s rules. Either Uefa has to act punitively enough to show the rulebreakers who is boss – admittedly difficult, given the club’s financial powers and their reported aggression – or Uefa effectively works for the rulebreakers. If it is the latter, perhaps they could take inspiration from F1, and install a parallel competition to the Champions League. Call it the Accountants’ Championship, so we all know where we are.

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So don’t fuck with us or we will tie you up in court for years. Fucking ban them for 5 years in the CL and relegate them to the Conference. See how long the Arabs stay then. There will be some dodgy deals going on as we know, all the clubs should get involved and fuck them right off.

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35 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

Interesting opinion piece from Marina Hyde in The Guardian on FFP and Uefa's enforcement of it.

 

Uefa's 'parking ticket' fines will not rein in football's maverick clubs

Unless it enforces a monster fine or ban on clubs who overstep the mark, Uefa is an employee of those it is supposed to police

 

Reports that Uefa investigators are to recommend Manchester City be banned from the Champions League for a year are certainly eye-catching. According to the New York Times, the European governing body’s sleuths have spent almost a year investigating leaks that allege rule-breaking, and will now push for a competition ban, though that would be subject to forceful legal challenge by City. The accusations centre on the club’s alleged attempts to circumvent financial fair play regulations via disguised cash injections from their Abu Dhabi owners, as well as suggestions that City misled authorities in statements provided to resolve an earlier case.

 

The great puzzle is why misfortune and accusation continue to dog Manchester City in this fashion. It was only in 2014 that the club were fined by Uefa over a previous rule breach, which saw them accept some restrictions on transfers and a £49m fine. In fact, City never paid the full fine, forfeiting only £17m of prize money three years later. Alas, this doesn’t seem to have been the end of it, if documents released over the past year via the Football Leaks website are to be believed. City doesn’t say they aren’t to be believed, only that they are not to be paid any attention to. Time and again they have been forced to characterise this or that leaked email as “hacked”, “stolen”, “out of context”, or “an organised and clear attempt” to besmirch the club’s reputation. Though not, as it goes, “false”.

 

But what of the Uefa investigators, meanwhile, who I like to picture as European football’s internal affairs division? Are they the sort of pen-pushers who have no experience of the frontline job, who are remorseless sticklers for by-the-book procedure, and don’t understand that the maverick cop – in this case, Manchester City Football Club – has to bend those rules a bit to get results? Or are they in the Line of Duty AC-12 mould – willing to absorb all the slings and arrows because they serve a higher moral purpose? You have to hope it’s the latter. Their Ted Hastings, either way, is former Belgian prime minister Yves Leterme, and a veteran of the political crisis in that country when Belgium forewent the pleasure of a government for 535 days. Even so, his current gig is challenging.

Of course, all internal affairs divisions suffer from a certain lack of love from those whom they are charged with investigating. Last year, leaked emails suggested that when Uefa investigator Jean-Luc Dehaene died in 2013, one City lawyer allegedly emailed a colleague with the epitaph: “One down, six to go”.

Back when Fifa’s president, Gianni Infantino, was still Uefa’s general secretary another leaked document allegedly stated a City lawyer had imparted to Infantino club chairman Khaldoon al-Mubarak’s views on punishing them with a fine. According to this lawyer, Al Mubarak would “rather spend £30m on the 50 best lawyers in the world to sue them for the next 10 years.” This, City allegedly informed Infantino, was a great chance for Uefa “to avoid the destruction of their rules and their organisation”.

 

Mmm. It is rather difficult not to see the whole problem crystallised in that reported comment. Multimillion pound fines are essentially a parking ticket to the wealth of the Abu Dhabi-based owners, just as the $5bn fine recently levied on Facebook by the FTC was a parking ticket, swiftly characterised by analysts as “a bargain”.

The Stern professor and author Scott Galloway talks about something called the “algebra of deterrence”. As he defines it, when a deterrent is effective, it is because “the likelihood or the probability of getting caught, times the likely fine, is greater than the upside of continuing to engage in that activity”. Clearly, it is essential that deterrents are set at a level which actually deters. If not, the so-called deterrent actually ends up not simply being ineffective, but value-accretive to the entity it is supposed to punish.

 

This is what happened with Facebook: the ridiculous fine saw the firm’s stock leap as soon as it was made public. As Galloway summarised, it showed the world “that they can continue to engage in the behaviour and it’s going to cost them two weeks of cash flow”. So this kind of “deterrent” is anything but – it actively enables the behaviour it was supposed to punish. On this reading, a government – or, let’s say, a governing body – which indulges in parking ticket fines essentially stops being a countervailing force and becomes a co-conspirator. Galloway’s solution as far as Facebook goes is to “add a zero to that fine, and restore the algebra of deterrence.”

 

As far as Manchester City or any rulebreaking European club goes, then, Uefa needs to think beyond what are basically parking ticket fines. Either they enforce an effective deterrent – a monster fine or competition ban - or they essentially become a helpful employee of those same clubs. Unfortunately, their track record in understanding deterrence is wildly uninspiring, from City’s last fine, to the litany of attempts to deal with racist chanting down the years. As Kick It Out put it in the wake of the abuse England suffered in Montenegro: “fines won’t do. Extended stadium bans or tournament expulsion are what’s needed.”

 

And so with clubs who refuse to play by Uefa’s rules. Either Uefa has to act punitively enough to show the rulebreakers who is boss – admittedly difficult, given the club’s financial powers and their reported aggression – or Uefa effectively works for the rulebreakers. If it is the latter, perhaps they could take inspiration from F1, and install a parallel competition to the Champions League. Call it the Accountants’ Championship, so we all know where we are.

This is what I was getting at with a post yesterday.

 

Its lovely to think the various football authorities will be anything other than impotent and craven on the matter, for roughly a second or two, but it obviously won’t ever happen.

 

The standard of lawyers City will hire indefinitely on the matter being the other most predictable bit about it. 

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6 minutes ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

This is what I was getting at with a post yesterday.

 

Its lovely to think the various football authorities will be anything other than impotent and craven on the matter, for roughly a second or two, but it obviously won’t ever happen.

 

The standard of lawyers City will hire indefinitely on the matter being the other most predictable bit about it. 

It's all for show. 

 

Football is probably the most corrupt sport in the world, half the townships in South Africa got bulldozed to make way for market stalls peddling vuvuzelas made by Sepp Blatter's mum. 

 

Imagine the licking of lips when these oil rich, unscrupulous shitehawks started to sniff around the game? 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

Their players are happy to take blood money from one of the most disgusting regimes on the planet. Singing vile songs about us is pretty small beans in the scheme of things.

Agreed.

 

As for Saint Pep, champion of Catalan rights: no issue with his employer when it comes to the rights of mere Arabs, it appears...

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4 minutes ago, Josef Svejk said:

Agreed.

 

As for Saint Pep, champion of Catalan rights: no issue with his employer when it comes to the rights of mere Arabs, it appears...

 

Not to mention indentured labour from South Asia. Victims of institutional racism, that, oddly, doesn't seem to pose a concern for everyone's favourite campaigning winger.

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38 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

Not to mention indentured labour from South Asia. Victims of institutional racism, that, oddly, doesn't seem to pose a concern for everyone's favourite campaigning winger.

I intended to edit my post to note his apparent indifference to non-Arabs, too.

 

As for Sterling, don't get me started...

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4 hours ago, Anubis said:

Sorry, TK, but you can fuck off giving them the benefit of the doubt. They absolutely do know what the victims in the song means. 

Is right.  Fuck Sterling as well the agenda driven cunt.

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7 minutes ago, J-V said:

Is right.  Fuck Sterling as well the agenda driven cunt.

Most of these are foreign lads with a limited grasp of the language.  You can tell this from the video because during the verse they are struggling to grasp all of the words and there is difficulty with the pronunciation.  The words preceding "allez allez" are sung hesitantly and without much enthusiasm.  It's only when they get to the "allez allez" part that the decibels increase.  

 

Aguero, for example, doesn't speak English so we can rule him out regarding his intent.  He definitely gets a pass.  With the other non-English players, if I were to put myself in their shoes and I was playing football in say, Italy, I would not really have a clue what most of the words meant with them being sung in a muffled/inaudible way in a second language.  

 

I agree that the English contingent need to have a look at themselves, though, and the statement of denial from the club does not reflect well on them. 

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3 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Sorry, anyone in football, fans, players, coaching staff, sports reporters etc. who doesnt know the connotation regarding 'victim' chants and Liverpool FC, not to mention Sean Cox and 'getting battered in the street' is somewhat deluded.

 

I dont recall fans getting 'battered in the streets' of Kiev. Except of course that local lad in the vid beating an older guy then getting a straightener when a red told him to knock it off so just how 'battered in the streets' refers to the Kiev final, I do not know.

A load of Liverpool fans got attacked in a restaurant in Kyiv 

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44 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Aguero, for example, doesn't speak English... 

 

After all he’s only been here a decade, so how could we expect him to have picked up some of the language.

 

I have some magic beans, and if you plant them and water them they turn into classic vinyl records. Interested?

 

 

 

2011. Two hour English lessons three times a week.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2028374/amp/Manchester-City-striker-Sergio-Aguero-determined-learn-English.html

 

 

2017. Guardiola demands players communicate in English on the training ground.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4992480/amp/Pep-Guardiola-demands-Man-City-players-speak-English.html

 

 

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For me, it's also a bit of a reach to suggest that some players didn't understand, not the connotations of certain words and phrases, but the actual basic meaning of these words when they appeared to be able to fully understand the "Ramos injured Salah" line, it's context and that the Kompany tackle on Salah could be used as a substitute for this original line of the song. 

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1 hour ago, Anubis said:

 

After all he’s only been here a decade, so how could we expect him to have picked up some of the language.

 

I have some magic beans, and if you plant them and water them they turn into classic vinyl records. Interested?

 

 

 

2011. Two hour English lessons three times a week.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2028374/amp/Manchester-City-striker-Sergio-Aguero-determined-learn-English.html

 

 

2017. Guardiola demands players communicate in English on the training ground.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4992480/amp/Pep-Guardiola-demands-Man-City-players-speak-English.html

 

 

Someone has been skipping class.

 

 

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Yeah, that's not someone who has a competent command of the English language.  I would not expect him to be able to grasp the unpleasant nuances of the song and quickly decide that they are inappropriate whilst celebrating a title win.  Exoneration for Sergio. 

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Three of those reported to have sung it are Kompany, Gundogan and Kyle Walker. Walker is from Sheffield and the other two probably have a better command of the English language than he does.

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4 hours ago, J-V said:

Is right.  Fuck Sterling as well the agenda driven cunt.

What’s his agenda? Not getting racist abuse? 

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1 hour ago, Vincent Vega said:

Three of those reported to have sung it are Kompany, Gundogan and Kyle Walker. Walker is from Sheffield and the other two probably have a better command of the English language than he does.

Walker is Pug ignorant.

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