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Man City - the new bitters?

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9 minutes ago, RobbieOR said:

 

This line couldn't be more spot on. You can't just not like a team or a fanbase anymore (And this applies to us more than anyone). You have to completely go out of your way to be the most horrible prick ever. People can't dislike us without throwing shit in regards to Hillsborough, Heysel, unemployment and anything else the city or club has had to put up with in the past. A fan misbehaves in Barcelona, we're all scumbags and the video gets shared on every clickbait site in the world. A city fan throws a pint over Gary Neville the other day and nothing is made of it. It's getting very tiring. 

The depiction of Liverpool fans goes hand in hand with the view of the city from a lot of the people who still work in the media. Don't forget they're by and large all middle class and a mix of big and small C conservative. 

 

Liverpool has always been fair game for sticking the boot in, it's a rebel city so such attacks and abuse are countenanced. 

 

It remains the supreme achievement of the ruling class in Britain to make the working class turn against each other. We built their factories, crewed their warships and laid their train-tracks without a brass sovereign to show for it and yet still our loathing is reserved for each other instead. 

 

The site of Wolves fans singing sign on encapsulates this perfectly. 

 

It's pretty tragic that some people out there are weak-minded and generally sad enough to feel that deriding others enhances their personal status or wellbeing. They're the type of people who'd probably break down in tears if you called them a twat in public. 

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I would give the Man City players the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the word "victims" in that song.  I doubt that they would sing it if they knew its full implications.  They had just won the league and were celebrating accordingly, caught up in the moment.

 

I've also negged a couple of the Sterling remarks on this thread.  His fight against racism shouldn't be trivialised or conflated with the nonsense in that Allez Allez song.  

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3 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

The depiction of Liverpool fans goes hand in hand with the view of the city from a lot of the people who still work in the media. Don't forget they're by and large all middle class and a mix of big and small C conservative. 

 

Liverpool has always been fair game for sticking the boot in, it's a rebel city so such attacks and abuse are countenanced. 

 

It remains the supreme achievement of the ruling class in Britain to make the working class turn against each other. We built their factories, crewed their warships and laid their train-tracks without a brass sovereign to show for it and yet still our loathing is reserved for each other instead. 

 

The site of Wolves fans singing sign on encapsulates this perfectly. 

 

It's pretty tragic that some people out there are weak-minded and generally sad enough to feel that deriding others enhances their personal status or wellbeing. They're the type of people who'd probably break down in tears if you called them a twat in public. 

 

I actually do think it stopped a bit with us after the new Hillsborough inquests but ever since we've had the temerity to have a good football team again it's reared it's head. 

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I've never seen a professional sports team and its fans as hated as Liverpool are for such bizarre reasons. In the States, people generally dislike fans of the Dallas Cowboys and LA Lakers for the same kind of arrogance about their history and significance that Liverpool get here, but the always the victims thing, Scouser hatred and incredible disdain whenever we become even half decent is just ugly and more extreme than anything I can think of.

 

It goes deeper than us being quote unquote deluded. It should be embarrassing for others, but it isn't for some reason.

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Sorry, TK, but you can fuck off giving them the benefit of the doubt. They absolutely do know what the victims in the song means. 

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It fills a void. City cannot celebrate what they have because what they have is built on an empty foundation of money and false accounting. What we have they will never have. So they celebrate what they see that do not have. It's beneath embarrassing.

 

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1 minute ago, Anubis said:

Sorry, TK, but you can fuck off giving them the benefit of the doubt. They absolutely do know what the victims in the song means. 

Fair enough.  I've said my bit and don't want a big argument about it, I respect your view but disagree. 

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Wait, so this is actually genuine?! Which City players are signing the songs? Its hard to see them in that video.

 

I hope every single one of our players see's that video. Classless bastards rubbing our noses in it. I was worried about our motivation and ability to come back just as strong next season but i think if our players see that shit they will be rightly pissed off and come back ready for the fight!

 

And who the fuck celebrates with Budweiser? Fucking tramps. 

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1 minute ago, TK421 said:

I would give the Man City players the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the word "victims" in that song.  I doubt that they would sing it if they knew its full implications.  They had just won the league and were celebrating accordingly, caught up in the moment.

 

I've also negged a couple of the Sterling remarks on this thread.  His fight against racism shouldn't be trivialised or conflated with the nonsense in that Allez Allez song.  

What do you think that they think it implies? it's been sung by their city rivals for years and we all know what it is about. 

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2 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Sorry, TK, but you can fuck off giving them the benefit of the doubt. They absolutely do know what the victims in the song means. 

Exactly.  And there are people there who have links to this club, like the greedy little cunt and Pep Segura ( if he was there ) who will have been closer to the efforts of the families and will have been to memorial services.  they will know exactly what it was about.

 

The fact that hardly anyone is calling them out on this and that they wont apologise is sickening.

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1 minute ago, Istvan Kosma said:

What do you think that they think it implies? it's been sung by their city rivals for years and we all know what it is about. 

Honestly, I don't think much thought went into what they were singing at all.  No doubt the person who wrote the verse knew what they were doing, but not the Man City players themselves in my opinion.  I just can't see a player like Ederson, for example, who has been in English football for all of two seasons and wasn't alive when Hillsborough happened, familiarising himself with fan culture to the extent that he would associate the word in that way.  It seems unlikely to me, so I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.  I think they're just mindlessly parroting the song without giving much thought to the words. 

 

But hey, it has been caught on camera and put up on twitter so they must all be subhuman scum and knew exactly what they were doing.  Nah, not for me.

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Even if they didn't mean it about Hillsborough isn't this similar to the Danny Baker situation except replace the chimpanzee for the word "victims" they may not of thought of it at the time but most people know including Sterling victim is used as a veiled reference to Hillsborough.

The difference between the 2 cases being no one at City had apologised or been held accountable or held there hands up that is was wrong in hindsight

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22 hours ago, chrisbonnie said:

I have to be honest, I couldn't give a shit what they do. 

 

To me, you either enforce the rules, or change them. 

 

If they want to have real ffp, grand, enforce real sanctions, ones that actually hinder the team breaking the rules. 

 

However if they're only going to give some mickey mouse ban, then why bother, just let them spend what they want. 

 

And as painful as it is to admit. If the shoe was on the other foot, we wouldn't care how much we spent. And that's a fact

 

I would let them spend what they want, and I don't think it is a good look to complain about what they have spent all the time.

 

Essentially (in my view), the FFP rules are where the issue is, and is a form of cheating itself. Brought in to maintain the status quo of the traditional big clubs, of which we are one, and to stop other clubs threatening their position. They saw what happened at Chelsea, they didn't like it, they saw what was happening at City/PSG, they didn't like it, they saw what was happening in some of the Eastern European leagues, and they didn't like it, but wrapped it up in the premise that it is to protect clubs from getting into financial difficulties.

 

If the aim was to really stop clubs getting into problems, then the rules would be based around the source of funds, eg is it debt funded, is it sustainable, a meaningful fit and proper test, things like that. Instead they focus on how much a club can spend, and put a limit on that which makes it difficult for the big clubs to be challenged.

 

If a wealthy owner wants to put their money into a club and buy a load of players, what is the real issue with that? That is essentially how the majority of traditional big clubs became big clubs in the first place long before we can remember.

 

Looking at the bigger picture, Mansour's investment has brought a load of money into the country that wouldn't have been here otherwise, and I would hope (good accountants not withstanding) a load of tax revenues with it. They have invested massively in the infrastructure and the training ground, big investment in both youth and women's football. They pay for a private education for their youth players up until 16, even if they get released before that (although I do have some issues with that). They have created loads of employment, both directly and indirectly. No doubt their community work is now loads bigger as well. These are good things.

 

Obviously, whatever rules are in place, they should be adhered to, and they should be punished if those rules have been broken, but in my opinion the rules themselves are an ass. If that makes it harder for us to be successful, then so be it, we will just have to work harder and smarter.

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Just now, TK421 said:

Honestly, I don't think much thought went into what they were singing at all.  No doubt the person who wrote the verse knew what they were doing, but not the Man City players themselves in my opinion.  I just can't see a player like Ederson, for example, who has been in English football for all of two seasons and wasn't alive when Hillsborough happened, familiarising himself with fan culture to the extent that he would associate the word in that way.  It seems unlikely to me, so I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.  I think they're just mindlessly parroting the song without giving much thought to the words. 

 

But hey, it has been caught on camera and put up on twitter so they must all be subhuman scum and knew exactly what they were doing.  Nah, not for me.

They have people to put them wise don't they? they have english staff like Brian kidd did he not know the meaning? 

 

I just think as a club they have shown exactly what they are about.

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The victims bit is weird too. It's been shoehorned into the song just so they can call us victims, with them being fully aware of the negative connotations of that word regarding us, Hillsborough and Boris Johnson/The Spectator. 

 

I'd genuinely respect (if that's the right word?) them more if they just owned their vileness and stopped trying to skirt around it. 

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Regardless of the victim point, they are professional sportsmen happy to celebrate fans and other players getting injured and clearly have no regrets when challenged.  

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I suspect TK421 is right about citeh players’ knowledge of fan culture. But the club should not pretend they don’t understand and suggest, because their fans have sung it all year, it must be ok. 

 

We we know there will be no repercussions and it will be forgotten by most by the time the cup final comes around. Not by us though 

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Take it as a compliment.  They want the Champions League more than anything, they'll be pissed off that we're in the final again and that we stopped them winning it last season.  The Premier League is pretty much meaningless to them at this point.  If we're playing on their minds then good, we're doing something right.  They're probably still upset that we threw a can of lager at their bus.

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I'm not in the sligtest arsed about what they say or do as I expect nothing better of them. I am slightly arsed that the media and authorities will let this quietly drop even though I expect nothing better of them either. 

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4 minutes ago, aws said:

I'm not in the sligtest arsed about what they say or do as I expect nothing better of them. I am slightly arsed that the media and authorities will let this quietly drop even though I expect nothing better of them either. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-7028571/Manchester-City-players-filmed-mocking-Liverpool-vile-song.html

 

That's a pretty fair/balanced report of what happened, in my opinion.  

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28 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Take it as a compliment.  They want the Champions League more than anything, they'll be pissed off that we're in the final again and that we stopped them winning it last season.  The Premier League is pretty much meaningless to them at this point.  If we're playing on their minds then good, we're doing something right.  They're probably still upset that we threw a can of lager at their bus.

Fake news from the FAILING TK media. It was cider.

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Sorry, anyone in football, fans, players, coaching staff, sports reporters etc. who doesnt know the connotation regarding 'victim' chants and Liverpool FC, not to mention Sean Cox and 'getting battered in the street' is somewhat deluded.

 

I dont recall fans getting 'battered in the streets' of Kiev. Except of course that local lad in the vid beating an older guy then getting a straightener when a red told him to knock it off so just how 'battered in the streets' refers to the Kiev final, I do not know.

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Liverpool is a predominantly immigrant city and predominantly Irish as well. The bad (and good to be fair) stereotypes of the city are essentially middle England's stereotype of the Irish. Throw a large population of people from  around the world into the pot and while we love the Scouseness of it all, to middle England it's a nightmare. We are a rebellious city and they will never keep us down. The establishment has always feared us and this is nothing new.

 

The twenty something or thirty something Chelsea Wolves, or City etc fan probably doesn't know or give a fuck about the ethnic make up of the city, but they are carrying on the stereotypes that their parents or grandparents have. The thing with the Everton fans is how baffling their behaviour is. They are from the city and get tarred with the exact same brush yet seem delighted to play the uncle sam role to the rest of the country and get handed the crumbs from their table. I mean the Stevie slipped on his arse song is horrible for me to hear but is fair game, but the other shite they sing is detestable. I can't comprehend how a large minority of their support can behave that way, yet profess a love for the city. They lost their success a long time ago, but jesus have they lost their pride.

 

For what it's worth, I doubt the likes of Ederson know the connotations of Hillsborough or Sean Cox, but the english ones do. Their club should take ownership of it and apologise for any offence caused. They won't because they want to be the darlings of the establishment and every knobhead from Middlesborough to Portsmouth is happy for them to have that crown if it stops the Scousers. Why admit what they don't have too. 

 

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