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Man City - the new bitters?


Naz17
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On 13/07/2020 at 18:30, Ronnie Whelan said:

I have no doubt he wanted him badly. He is a top class young player who would have slotted right in. 

 

The thing is Jurgen would also have recognised that once Chelsea offered him hige wages that would have eclipsed the likes of Virgil and Mo, this is not good for morale and that is one of our biggest strengths.

 

Did FSG override him? No one will ever know but by all accounts we had agreed the deal pre Covid but once Chelsea threw the wonga at him, we refused to budge. My gut tells me that was a joint FSG and Jurgen decision. 

I think Jürgen pretty much said yesterday he can't just ask for players and they'll find the money. It's never been the case with them. 

21 hours ago, an tha said:

Let them win the European Cup this year.

 

It will come with a massive asterisk next to it.

 

1 legged games in last 8 and last 4 as opposed to 2.

 

23 man matchday squads, with all 12 not starting available as subs - never seen before apart from final.

 

Neutral venues last 8 and 4.

 

 

1*8_PIQeiRp4uWaLhrCZvudQ@2x.gif

 

Fuck that. The asterisk is ours, they're not taking that off us. 

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10 hours ago, davelfc* said:

MARTIN SAMUEL: 'Hateful Eight' step up war against Man City in FFP saga as Jurgen Klopp and Jose Mourinho give the game away... the richest clubs are operating as a protectionist cartel

 

They did not waste time, the cartel. Within hours of the Court of Arbitration announcement, there was a remote scrambling of Manchester City's elite rivals and a discussion about the next plan of action.

This is not over. There is still a Premier League investigation into City ongoing. 

 

There is still the chance to pressure and influence those proceedings, as was attempted with UEFA's case, when nine leading Premier League clubs — Arsenal, Manchester United, Liverpool, Tottenham, Chelsea, Leicester, Wolves, Newcastle and Burnley — wrote to CAS on March 9 to argue City should be excluded from Europe while their appeal was heard. They hadn't a clue.

 

They thought City were stalling, when they were actually pushing to get the appeal completed — the club couldn't move forward until it was — but the remnants of that group remain, as angry and desperate to protect their turf as ever.

 

UEFA are reluctant to appeal against CAS's verdict in the Swiss courts, where they have a dismal record but the Hateful Eight — as they are now known within the walls of the Etihad, because Wolves are believed to have pulled out — may join forces with the elites of Europe in an attempt to persuade them otherwise. 

There was certainly talk of taking further legal advice, of poring over the longer CAS explanation of the verdict when it is published this week, seeking flaws that could be challenged or exploited. 

 

Perhaps they will engage the same law company who wrote the legal letter to CAS the last time, Russells.

So that was stage one of the resistance. Stage two came when the managers sat in front of the cameras on Tuesday and toed the party line.

Mikel Arteta was off-message — due only to his connections with Manchester City and Pep Guardiola, because Arsenal are certainly part of this, perhaps even its greatest driving force — but Jurgen Klopp and Jose Mourinho did their duty. 

'A bad day for football… disgraceful… FFP is a good idea…'

 

The irony of Mourinho, who benefited hugely from owner investment during his first spell at Chelsea under Roman Abramovich, advocating financial regulation now he is with frugal Tottenham is almost too ripe for comment.

Chelsea did everything that Manchester City have subsequently, and then worked to change the rules from the inside so that their path to the top could not be travelled again. 

 

Yet, leaving even that gross hypocrisy aside, Mourinho's commentary was flawed. He argued that as City were fined £9million, they were guilty, so their ban should not have been lifted. It's a little more complicated than that. 

The fine was for refusing to comply with UEFA's initial investigation — the ban was for falsifying accounts. It's like being charged with murder, and also resisting arrest. A person could be found not guilty of murder, but guilty of resisting arrest.

 

He wouldn't, however, then get a murderer's sentence. And even City's fine was reduced by two-thirds. Mourinho tried to be outraged but his heart didn't seem in it. Even he must be aware how straightforwardly logical CAS's decision was.

Klopp was different. Klopp imagined a dangerous world of super leagues and super clubs, crushing those below with untrammelled wealth. 

 

'If the richest people or countries can do what they want in football, then that could make the competition really difficult,' he said. 

'I think that would lead automatically to a kind of world super league with, like, 10 clubs.'

What — the sort of league that Liverpool keep talking about, in those secret meetings with other elite members like Arsenal and Manchester United, that always end up being uncovered and reported in the media?

Meetings with foreign power-brokers, often American, who want to create a closed shop Champions League, composed of the established elite?

 

As for making competition difficult, Klopp went on to espouse the German vision of club ownership, a system so competitive it has resulted in Bayern Munich winning the Bundesliga title for the last eight seasons — when no club in the history of German football stretching back to 1903 had previously won more than three on the spin. 

 

Owner investment does not kill competition: it creates more. The penny is beginning to drop over what is being attempted here.

Wolves, having signed the original letter to CAS, are understood not to have been part of Monday's group call. Everton and Sheffield United were always outside the conversation. Why would they lobby to wrap ambitious clubs in red tape, stunting their growth and leaving them at the mercy of predators?

 

The big lie of FFP is that clubs should grow organically. Yet how is that possible if a middling organisation cannot invest further to compete, while its best players are poached? Leicester won the League and lost N'Golo Kante to Chelsea that summer. Ben Chilwell is likely to travel the same route this year.

Southampton could have been an outstanding team across the last decade, maybe another Leicester, but were denuded by Liverpool and others. FFP kills challengers.

 

There is no other industry that does not allow competition from companies injecting capital to improve performance and output.

If Saudi Arabian investment now makes Newcastle a force, how is that bad for the game? Don't Newcastle fans deserve that? Isn't the city worthy?

 

We all know the majority of the 10 super clubs that Klopp is talking about, and Manchester City aren't even part of the group, no matter their wealth. 

Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus, Bayern Munich, AC Milan — there won't be room for too many others after that lot grab their share. Paris Saint-Germain might get a pass but only because Qatar, through beIN Sports, own the game.

 

Newcastle, Wolves, Tottenham, Everton, Leicester, Leeds, Sunderland, Aston Villa — there is no room for them at this table. And the fact one or more might even hope or begin to emulate City is what terrifies the cabal.

Arsenal, with all their advantages, are ninth, Manchester United still outside the top four. If they do not qualify for the Champions League next season £25m of their deal with adidas is lost.

 

Damn right they have a vested interest in finding ways to bar City, or any new challenger. The richest clubs are operating, ever more nakedly, as a protectionist cartel. And that's what is bad for football.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8523111/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Hateful-eight-step-war-against-Manchester-City-FFP-saga.html#comments

 

 

He shoots, he misses. Could have written a great article and went for this shite instead. Hope he enjoys his silver pieces. 

 

That's probably the most biased and worst piece of ' Journalism ' I think I've ever read or ever likely to read its obvious that Samuel is on the Ethiad payroll 

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it's an opinion piece, and it captures the point that City fans (and Chelsea fans) make.  

 

And that is 'how can anyone else possibly complete on a consistent basis without a significant injection of cash?'

 

The harsh reality for those clubs outside the old guard is that they could never hope to do so.  

 

So what we, as part of the old guard, are doing is protecting our position.  Or we would be, if FFP worked.

 

I agree with Mourinho(!) in that the FFP rules are now so discredited you might as well just open the door to anyone to pump as much money into any club as they want.  

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4 hours ago, aws said:

Samuel's argument is pathetic because it is based on the premise that the only way for a club to break through is via massive investment from the super-rich rather than gradual improvement by good financial and player management. Both Leicester  and Wolves have been trying to do it the hard way but their chances of succeeding are hugely impeded by the unlimited financial resources of an oil-state. How is that good for the game? 

That's all that needs to be said. Do people want the game to be more of a meritocracy where competence is rewarded or do they want the clubs with the richest owners to win everything? It's as simple as that.

 

And the "cartel", which is an absurd name for these clubs by the way because City/Chelsea/PSG and the like are really the ones doing the shady shit, should have a slight inherent advantage because they're the ones that have been able to grow throughout decades to become the biggest clubs.

 

It's not remotely good for a club like City to just become massive within 10 years just because some cunt royal family picked them out of a hat and to argue it is good is just asinine and dishonest. 

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1 hour ago, elvis said:

Anyway , assuming these cunts make it to the European cup , who do we think is best equipped to wup the fuckers? I think Bayern Munich myself 

Sadly i reckon Citeh will walk it.

 

Made for them now with new format and rules around 23 man matchday squads.

 

 

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I made the mistake of commenting on something carra had said about FFP - anodyne comment. Within an hour I’ve had half a dozen City fans raising Heysel and one bringing up Hillsborough. Then some idiot Liverpool fan mentioning Barry Bennell. What the fuck is wing with people?

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Tebas hates them, great to see.

 

"Manchester City will be in the Champions League next season not because they have acted correctly, but rather because CAS is wrong," he fired to ESPN on Wednesday. 

"In fact, the CAS has fined them €10m, that is not just for the sake of it. From what I've read I gather it is because they didn't cooperate with UEFA. Why is that? 

"Have City hidden documentation? I would like to read the final ruling now, if I can. 

"Just as we still have not been able to read PSG's final ruling from CAS, when a lot of time has passed and it is still not available. 

"The day I sit down and read it I will tell Guardiola that of which I am convinced: Manchester City have not acted right."

Tebas also launched a withering criticism of CAS, stating that the Switzerland-based tribunal had lost its legitimacy. 

"CAS is not fit to hand down rulings in the football industry. We all know what City do! Everyone in football knows what they do," he added. 

"In fact, when the punishment first reached them nobody in European football was surprised. Quite the contrary. I won't say it was celebrated, but some people did come out and say at least justice has been served to the state-run clubs. 

"Instead, after the CAS ruling there have been protests from Klopp, Mourinho... Everyone knows they tried to dodge financial fair play. 

"CAS is dead. Its rulings have been doubtful for a long time. There is no transparency and a lot of the time, looking at the judges named, you know where their ruling is headed. 

"Switzerland has great prestige in arbitration and the CAS does it no favours."

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12 hours ago, rubble-rouser said:

I made the mistake of commenting on something carra had said about FFP - Then some idiot Liverpool fan mentioning Barry Bennell. What the fuck is wing with people?


If you’re gonna be in group chats with Stig then you have to expect stuff like that at 3am from time to time. 

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4 hours ago, No2 said:

Tebas hates them, great to see.

 

"Manchester City will be in the Champions League next season not because they have acted correctly, but rather because CAS is wrong," he fired to ESPN on Wednesday. 

"In fact, the CAS has fined them €10m, that is not just for the sake of it. From what I've read I gather it is because they didn't cooperate with UEFA. Why is that? 

"Have City hidden documentation? I would like to read the final ruling now, if I can. 

"Just as we still have not been able to read PSG's final ruling from CAS, when a lot of time has passed and it is still not available. 

"The day I sit down and read it I will tell Guardiola that of which I am convinced: Manchester City have not acted right."

Tebas also launched a withering criticism of CAS, stating that the Switzerland-based tribunal had lost its legitimacy. 

"CAS is not fit to hand down rulings in the football industry. We all know what City do! Everyone in football knows what they do," he added. 

"In fact, when the punishment first reached them nobody in European football was surprised. Quite the contrary. I won't say it was celebrated, but some people did come out and say at least justice has been served to the state-run clubs. 

"Instead, after the CAS ruling there have been protests from Klopp, Mourinho... Everyone knows they tried to dodge financial fair play. 

"CAS is dead. Its rulings have been doubtful for a long time. There is no transparency and a lot of the time, looking at the judges named, you know where their ruling is headed. 

"Switzerland has great prestige in arbitration and the CAS does it no favours."

Excellent piece of journalism

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18 hours ago, rubble-rouser said:

I made the mistake of commenting on something carra had said about FFP - anodyne comment. Within an hour I’ve had half a dozen City fans raising Heysel and one bringing up Hillsborough. Then some idiot Liverpool fan mentioning Barry Bennell. What the fuck is wing with people?

The Member's forum's pretty savage these days.

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On 15/07/2020 at 17:11, stringvest said:

it's an opinion piece, and it captures the point that City fans (and Chelsea fans) make.  

 

And that is 'how can anyone else possibly complete on a consistent basis without a significant injection of cash?'

 

The harsh reality for those clubs outside the old guard is that they could never hope to do so.  

 

So what we, as part of the old guard, are doing is protecting our position.  Or we would be, if FFP worked.

 

I agree with Mourinho(!) in that the FFP rules are now so discredited you might as well just open the door to anyone to pump as much money into any club as they want.  

They should let them do whatever the fuck the want, but if they can't abide with ffp they have to deposit the salaries of all staff for the period of their contracts with uefa so if they want to walk away like many owners have and stopped funding the clubs, the staff are still paid and the club doesn't go bust. 

 

They should also outlaw stare ownerships of clubs. And stop this shadowy shit of owning clubs all over the world to just use it as a money laundering exercise. 

 

So if someone wants to invest fine, invest. Put your money where your mouth is. FIFA doesn't allow state interference in national teams and it shouldn't be allowed for clubs teams. 

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I have to stiffle my guffaws whenever I hear any manchester city official utter the words 'sporting integrity.'

 

Should clubs and owners be allowed to spend whatever they want or should there be limits? Well, I personally think you lose sporting integrity if it comes down to who has unlimited spending power.

 

chelsea fans in particular have the narrative that we 'spent' our way to dominance through the 70's and 80s and a lesser degree in the 60s. You'll never convince them that wasnt the case because they point to John Moores and the Littlewoods empire. That despite the fact everton was old man moore's favoured club.

 

Liverpool didnt enjoy huge cash injections as they say. The club benefitted from additional European football income for virtually a continuous 25 or so year run from the early 60s. Liverpool's success was built on and funded by sheer hard slog and money that came in from football itself.

 

The samuel mantra that clubs or rather their wealthy owners should be able to 'buy' a place at the top table ignores the simple fact those at the top table earnt their place there by winning football matches and often over a considerable period. They havent 'bought it' like chelsea, PSG and city have.

 

manchester city were the dominant club in Manchester before Busby rocked up at united, albeit not by very much though. In the late 60's, they developed a very good team that took them Division One title, FA, League and Cup Winners Cup victories. They were on the cusp of a 2nd Division One title until the bought Rodney Marsh. It might be a bit unfair to blame to him solely for losing a title but his signing certainly coincided with a very poor run in.

 

In any event it all turned to shit. Why? Partly because they allowed Malcolm Allison to usurp Joe Mercer as manager. Reckless spending in the transfer market, didnt gerry daley cost them over a million and he turned into a fucking dud plus, a chairman Peter Swales who seemed to spend more time in the Granada tv Kick Off studio than he did running his club? city has a good platform to build on in the early 70s but threw it away.

 

Ive little sympathy with them pleading for sporting recognition for their club now when they shit all over sporting integrity by using unlimited spending power to get what they want.

 

As for samuel, he can fuck off.

 

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