Large 2bn Arab Takeover Rejected

[Numero Veinticinco]

The guy is described as one of the Middle East's most successful entrepreneurs, but he sounds more like the guy who bought and ruined Portsmouth a decade ago. A close relation to where the real wealth lies, but having to scramble around to find partners to invest with him. He probably has no idea of how to develop the club going forward, and is simply looking to be able to brag about how he owns a Premier League club. FSG were right to swerve it.

You seem to have made all that up, to be fair.

[Ginny]

Was it £280m that FSG bought Liverpool for from those two helmets Hicks and Gillette?

 

If so for the 7-8 years they have been in control they’ve defo increased the worth of the club if they are now getting bids for £2bn+

[El Rojo]

£2b wouldn't even buy them Van Dijk and Salah.

[Einch]

There's a few rumours on skyscrapercity that the Anfield Road End will definitely start once the academy is sorted. A 3 tier stand with corporate boxes in the middle tier.

I can't post the link from the mobile site but the detailed planning application states that the maximum capacity will be no more than 9000.

Also more use of the ground in the summer through events and concerts.

Basically FSG see Liverpool as a money making machine and may have finally cottoned onto the fact that to do that it helps to be successful on the field.

9000 capacity would be the same as now. That would be very unlikely.

[RobbieOR]

Surely if they couldn't prove they had the money this is dead in the water?

[Mcfaggen]

There's a few rumours on skyscrapercity that the Anfield Road End will definitely start once the academy is sorted. A 3 tier stand with corporate boxes in the middle tier.

 

I can't post the link from the mobile site but the detailed planning application states that the maximum capacity will be no more than 9000.

 

Also more use of the ground in the summer through events and concerts.

 

Basically FSG see Liverpool as a money making machine and may have finally cottoned onto the fact that to do that it helps to be successful on the field.

 

I read that as the capacity will be no more than 9,000 until the criteria are met, for example it says: 

 

 

 

The capacity of the Anfield Road Stand shall not exceed 9,000 spectators until an Access / Egress Strategy has been submitted to and approved in writing by the Local Planning Authority which sets design and operational proposals for ensuring the needs of those with mobility or sensory impairments are appropriately considered and addressed

 

 

 

The capacity of the Anfield Road Stand shall not exceed 9,000 spectators until the following highway works have been completed strictly in accordance with details to be submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority and implemented at nil cost to the City Council.

[Mcfaggen]

9000 capacity would be the same as now. That would be very unlikely.

I think the plan is to increase capacity, but the conditions are that the increase can't happen until certain criteria are met. 

[Mcfaggen]

Full post from MacRed on Skyscraper City: 

 

 

 

I have found this in the planning report for the concerts/events permission:

ANFIELD ROAD STAND

Approval of the details of the design and external appearance of the Anfield Road Stand development, the means of access thereto and the landscaping of the site (the Reserved Matters) shall be submitted to the local planning authority, prior to 23rd August 2019. The development shall be begun within three years of the date of this permission, or within two years of the approval of the last reserved matter, whichever is the later.

REASON: To enable the local planning authority to control the development in detail and to comply with Section 92 (as amended) of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990.
The landscaping scheme submitted pursuant to Condition 27 shall include details for removal of paths and access routes created to facilitate the expansion of the Main Stand, but not required for the Anfield Road Stand expansion and their full reinstatement. Those works should be implemented in full within the first planting season of the additional seats in the expanded Anfield Road Stand being brought into use.

REASON: To ensure the landscaping is delivered in a timely manner.

The capacity of the Anfield Road Stand shall not exceed 9,000 spectators until an Access / Egress Strategy has been submitted to and approved in writing by the Local Planning Authority which sets design and operational proposals for ensuring the needs of those with mobility or sensory impairments are appropriately considered and addressed. The strategy should address service and employment compliance with the provision as set out in accordance with the requirements of the Equality Act 2010 (Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) 1995) and other relevant guidelines. The report shall provide full details relating to accessible parking, drop off areas, approaches including safe crossings, routes, signage, furniture, lighting, sporting facilities, other facilities associated with the external activities and entrances to the stadium within the site. The report should include detailed fire evacuation strategy for the safe evacuation of disabled people from the stadium. 

Reason: To ensure that appropriate provision is made for disabled people and the Development is accessible to all with special access requirements in accordance with saved Policy HD19 of the UDP.

A Construction Environmental Management Plan for the works to the Anfield Road Stand shall be submitted to the local planning authority prior to those works commencing. No works shall commence until the Environmental Management plan has been approved by the local planning authority. The Environmental Management Plan shall oblige:
(a) a detailed specification of any demolition works including consideration of environmental impacts and the required remedial measures;
(b) details of a scheme for the environmental monitoring of noise, dust and vibration; such details to include the equipment, its location and the operators/contractors who will monitor and manage the equipment;
© a programme of assessment of the most sensitive receptors, including residential and commercial, where a monitoring programme of impacts will be undertaken as work progresses;
(d) a programme of monitoring of permitted noise levels, emanating from the site at the boundary and at noise sensitive facades;
(e) engineering measures, acoustic screening and the provision of sound installation required to mitigate or eliminate specific environmental impacts;
(f) unless otherwise agreed as part of the Environmental Management Scheme and Code of Practice, the operation of site equipment and/or plant and machinery generating noise, that exceeds 65dB (A) Laeq (over a 1 hour period) at the façade of residential or noise sensitive premises shall only be carried out between the house of 0700 to 1900 Mondays to Friday, 0800 to 1300 on Saturdays and at no time on Sundays and Bank Holidays;
(g) an assessment of the presence or absence of asbestos and suitable mitigation measures as appropriate;
(h) measures required to contain dust such as debris screens, sheets, water sprays and enclosed chutes;
(i) temporary storage of materials on site.
All work shall be undertaken in strict accordance with the approved management scheme. The monitoring shall be undertaken for the course of the demolition and construction period and implemented in the approved Environmental Management Scheme at the cost of the development.

REASON: To limit the detrimental effect of works on adjacent occupiers by reason of noise and disturbance in accordance with saved UDP Policies C7 and H4.

Prior to any works commencing on construction of the Anfield Road Stand the developer shall submit to and have approved by the local planning authority a Noise Monitoring Programme which shall include details of the following monitoring equipment, positioning of equipment, qualifications of the personnel, contact details of the operators/contractors and remote access to data. The approved Noise Monitoring Programme shall be implemented strictly in accordance with the approved scheme.

REASON: To limit the effect of works on adjacent occupiers in accordance with save Policy C7 of the UDP.

Prior to any works commencing on construction of the Anfield Road Stand a method statement in respect of an Air Quality Management scheme for each period of enabling works within the demolition process to be approved in writing by the Local Planning Authority. The statement shall include the following:
(a) an assessment of the presence or absence of asbestos and suitable mitigation measures is appropriate;
(b) the inclusion of suitable measures for the containment of dust, such as the use of debris screens and sheets, suitable and sufficient water sprays; enclosed chutes for dropping demolition materials to ground level;
© the use of enclosures or shields when mixing large quantities of concrete or bentonite slurries; 
(d) details of the provision for the temporary storage of materials on site with preference to the storage of fine dry materials inside buildings or enclosures, or the use of sheeting as far as practicable with water sprays as appropriate;
(e) consideration to the use of pre-mixed plasters and masonry compounds.
The Air Quality management scheme shall be implemented in strict accordance with details to be approved, unless otherwise agreed in writing by the local planning authority.

REASON: To meet the Councils Air Quality Objectives.

No demolition of any part of the existing Anfield Road Stand as hereby permitted shall commence until details of a waste strategy for the those demolition works is submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority and implemented in strict accordance with the details to be agreed. The waste strategy shall include specified targets for recycling of materials from the demolished stadium including masonry, glass, timber, and metals and a methodology for monitoring the recycling of materials.

REASON: To meet the Councils air quality Objectives and in the interest of residential amenity in accordance with save Policies H4 and C7 of the UDP.

Wheel washing facilities shall be provided and utilised at all traffic exits to the site for the duration of the construction period for the Anfield Road Stand, in accordance with details to be submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority prior to any part of the work commencing. Such facilities shall be used by all vehicles leaving the site and shall be maintained in working order until completion of the demolition and clearance works. The wheel washing facility will continue to be used until the works are complete.

REASON: To ensure that the proposed work does not prejudice conditions of safety and cleanliness along the adjoining highway.

No part of the Anfield Road Stand expansion development shall commence until a method statement for site investigation for the purposes of identifying chemical and other potential contaminants on that part of the site and for any measure necessary to decontaminate the site shall be submitted to and agreed in writing by the local planning authority. The report shall include an assessment of materials to be imported into the site (if any). All measures specified in the approved report shall be undertaken in accordance with the relevant code of Practice and Guidance Notes, and completed to the satisfaction of the local planning authority to be confirmed in writing and prior to any development on any part of the application site affected by such contaminants.

REASON: To ensure the safety and amenities of future occupiers are not prejudiced in accordance with save Policy H4 of the UDP.

No part of the works to the Anfield Road Stand as herby permitted shall commence until details of the proposed location of site compound(s) and the parking areas for construction traffic and match day parking during the demolition period shall be submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority.

REASON: It is in the interests of the amenities of adjacent occupiers in accordance with saved Policy H4 of the UDP.

Prior to the works for the Anfield Road Stand commencing, details of the programme for the erection and location of artistically designed hoardings shall be submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority and thereafter be implemented and maintained around the site during construction works in accordance with the approved details.

REASON: It is in the interest of visual amenity in accordance with Policy HD18 of the UDP.

Prior to the construction of the Anfield Road Stand to which outline permission is hereby granted commencing, samples of all materials to be used in the external finishes shall be submitted to, and approved in writing by, the local planning authority and the scheme shall be implemented strictly in accordance with the approved materials.

REASON: In the interest of visual amenity in accordance with saved Policies GEN3 and HD18 of the UDP.

No submission of reserved matters for the Anfield Road Stand shall differ from the principles of scale, massing and height specified in the approved Design and Access Statement.

REASON: It is in the interests of the visual amenity of the area, and to ensure that the development is carried out in accordance with the principles of mitigation set out in the Environmental Statement to minimise the environmental effects of the development.
The capacity of the Anfield Road Stand shall not exceed 9,000 spectators until the following highway works have been completed strictly in accordance with details to be submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority and implemented at nil cost to the City Council. The specific details of the works required are set out in the Transport Strategy (Document C1/3) and include the following works:

Measure 3.0: Extension to coach parking facilities (figure 12.13 )

REASON: It is in the interests of highway safety and in accordance with saved Policy T9 of the UDP.
The residential units on the upper tier of the expanded Anfield Road Stand shall be acoustically insulated in accordance with a scheme to be submitted to and approved by the local planning authority (in consultation with the Council's Environmental Health Service) which shall be installed to their satisfaction prior to the use hereby permitted commencing.

REASON: It is in the interests of the amenity of occupiers of the proposed dwellings.


DEMOLITION

During demolition works on any part of the site:
(a) the best practical means available in accordance with British Standard Codes of Practice BS5228 Part 1: 1997 shall be employed at all times to minimise the emission of noise from the site;
(b) vehicular accesses to adjoining and opposite premises shall not be impeded at any time;
© no waste or other burning material shall be burnt on the application site;
(d) a suitable and sufficient means of suppressing dust must be provided and maintained, including the adequate containment of store or accumulated material so as to prevent it becoming airborne at any time and giving rise to nuisance.

REASON: To limit the detrimental effect of demolition and construction works on adjacent occupiers by reason of noise and disturbance in accordance with save Policies C7 and H4 of the UDP.

[CWD82]

Residential dwelling in the anny Road?

 

The residential units on the upper tier of the expanded Anfield Road Stand shall be acoustically insulated in accordance with a scheme to be submitted to and approved by the local planning authority (in consultation with the Council's Environmental Health Service) which shall be installed to their satisfaction prior to the use hereby permitted commencing.

 

REASON: It is in the interests of the amenity of occupiers of the proposed dwellings.

[Numero Veinticinco]

So, that'd take us to 63000, which would mean we had the second biggest capacity in the Premier League (London Stadium is 66k, but is currently limited to 57k pending legal disputes), and the only way we could up that is with some serious ambitious plans that include moving roads, buying houses out the ass, changing infrastructure, etc.

[Baltar]

Wouldn't mind being spoiled with money the way City, PSG, Chelsea etc. have. Might be the only way to compete with these cunts. We will always be limited with the current owners. They have not and will not put a penny of their own money into the club. We can only spend what we make, and luckily for them we tend to make a lot but it's still not enough. Would be nice to spend like crazy and not worry about going into debt. If that's what these Arab folks will bring, then let's hope they buy us and lavish us with the riches that we deserve.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Wouldn't mind being spoiled with money the way City, PSG, Chelsea etc. have. Might be the only way to compete with these cunts. We will always be limited with the current owners. They have not and will not put a penny of their own money into the club. We can only spend what we make, and luckily for them we tend to make a lot but it's still not enough. Would be nice to spend like crazy and not worry about going into debt. If that's what these Arab folks will bring, then let's hope they buy us and lavish us with the riches that we deserve.

Although I don't think that's true, and I think it's quite clear that we are competing, there's no doubt that it would be easier to compete with huge amounts of cash injected by an owner looking to clean money. The question is whether or not we want to. These owners have built the business up and up, and unless they're blind, anybody can see that has on the pitch ramifications. I'm not sure it's enough, because the financial power of City is so extreme, but it can keep us in the mix. If we want to dominate, then we would have to get owners rich as fucking fuck.

[Mcfaggen]

Residential dwelling in the anny Road?

 

The residential units on the upper tier of the expanded Anfield Road Stand shall be acoustically insulated in accordance with a scheme to be submitted to and approved by the local planning authority (in consultation with the Council's Environmental Health Service) which shall be installed to their satisfaction prior to the use hereby permitted commencing.

 

REASON: It is in the interests of the amenity of occupiers of the proposed dwellings.

 

Yeah, I think the outline planning permission was for two tiers and some residential units. This was in Ian Ayre's era though, as he believed that the ARE wouldn't be able to sell corporate seats as it's behind the goal and there was no demand, so he suggested some residential to accelerate RoI. 

 

The mood music seems to be that FSG have had their expectations exceeded on demand for Corps in the new Main Stand, that there is sufficient demand for Corps in the ARE and that a third (middle) tier is now on the cards. 

[aws]

I think the residential units were just using up some dead space under the stand which couldn't otherwise be used profitably.

[Baltar]

Although I don't think that's true, and I think it's quite clear that we are competing, there's no doubt that it would be easier to compete with huge amounts of cash injected by an owner looking to clean money. The question is whether or not we want to. These owners have built the business up and up, and unless they're blind, anybody can see that has on the pitch ramifications. I'm not sure it's enough, because the financial power of City is so extreme, but it can keep us in the mix. If we want to dominate, then we would have to get owners rich as fucking fuck.

No doubt we are making more money with the current owners, then again I don't think it's that difficult for a club of our size and standing to be a successful business. The previous owners were the most incompetent pair of cunts ever to have walked this planet, so of course FSG would look good compared to them. FSG will never spend the way City and PSG do though. No matter how much money they generate through the club, TV money, player sales, merchandise, sponsors etc. it will never be enough to match City. They are basically cheating - buying up the best players for silly money without ever worrying about going into debt. If we can get that sort of backing we'd blow away City and every other club in the world.

[Numero Veinticinco]

No doubt we are making more money with the current owners, then again I don't think it's that difficult for a club of our size and standing to be a successful business. The previous owners were the most incompetent pair of cunts ever to have walked this planet, so of course FSG would look good compared to them. FSG will never spend the way City and PSG do though. No matter how much money they generate through the club, TV money, player sales, merchandise, sponsors etc. it will never be enough to match City. They are basically cheating - buying up the best players for silly money without ever worrying about going into debt. If we can get that sort of backing we'd blow away City and every other club in the world.

 

 

Absolutely, FSG will never spend like City and PSG. I totally agree with that. The only way we ever will is to have some super-rich person who wants to either wash their dirty money or wants the fame of being associated with the club. I'm not saying I don't want a multibillionaire who wants to pump money into the club. I just think we need to know what's up and where the money will come from. If we were to do it, it would need to be somebody at least as rich as the owners at City and PSG, or at least as willing to match them with insane wealth. Klopp doesn't seem to want to just throw money at every problem, but will do if he has to. So there might be a mismatch somewhere. 

 

It'd feel very strange becoming that type of club. 

[aws]

That makes sense to a point. However, if you believe (as I do) that the path we’re on has potential (emphasis on the word potential) to see us reel in The Mancs, Madrid and Barca over the next ten years, why sell at all? Imagine the TV money alone from a global deal with Facebook or Amazon. We’re still nowhere near peak money in football.

The domestic rights might be slowing down, but the global rights are only just getting into third gear - and that’s without accounting for the growth of the PL in relatively young markets. The US is just starting to warm up to football. If that explodes (even just among Hispanic immigrant audiences rather than those of traditional US sports), then all bets are off in terms of what these deals could generate. £10bn a year for global PL rights in 10-15 years time is definitely possible in my view, if you look at the way the domestic rights grew.

Selling a slice like this is fairly classic investment fund behaviour. The investors want to receive some sort of return sometime and the choice is sell the asset or sell a slice of it. If the fund believe the asset is going to increase further in value then they will hang onto it and sell part of it so they can take back their original investment and achieve an initial return while still staying in the game with no risk as effectively it's all super profit from now on.

 

Most investors will invest over the medium term and won't want to be tied into a ten/fifteen year arrangement while every last penny is squeezed out. Take your cash back and use it to invest in something else you think is going to make money.

[Pidge]

You'd have to assume that investment would be in FSG, rather than the club directly.  The extra capital would probably help them buy other investments as well as fund the next stage of the redevelopment.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Selling a slice like this is fairly classic investment fund behaviour. The investors want to receive some sort of return sometime and the choice is sell the asset or sell a slice of it. If the fund believe the asset is going to increase further in value then they will hang onto it and sell part of it so they can take back their original investment and achieve an initial return while still staying in the game with no risk as effectively it's all super profit from now on.

 

Most investors will invest over the medium term and won't want to be tied into a ten/fifteen year arrangement while every last penny is squeezed out. Take your cash back and use it to invest in something else you think is going to make money.

 

 

Yeah, that's what seems to be going on. And it's not a bad case. Invest 280m, take out 500m whilst still owning 75%. Sounds like a fucking epic deal. It's why these types can afford yachts and we are sat complaining about yachts.

[an tha]

Absolutely, FSG will never spend like City and PSG. I totally agree with that. The only way we ever will is to have some super-rich person who wants to either wash their dirty money or wants the fame of being associated with the club. I'm not saying I don't want a multibillionaire who wants to pump money into the club. I just think we need to know what's up and where the money will come from. If we were to do it, it would need to be somebody at least as rich as the owners at City and PSG, or at least as willing to match them with insane wealth. Klopp doesn't seem to want to just throw money at every problem, but will do if he has to. So there might be a mismatch somewhere.

 

It'd feel very strange becoming that type of club.

I can't ever see it happening...we would cost too much.

 

Look at City and Chelsea bought for next to fuck all then unlimited funds can be pumped in to buy trophies.

 

If someone has a pile of money to pump into a club surely needing a billion plus just to own it before even start buying trophies is not as attractive as getting a club like West Ham or the bitters for next to fuck all and then pumping the money in to buy trophies....

[Numero Veinticinco]

I can't ever see it happening...we would cost too much.

 

Look at City and Chelsea bought for next to fuck all then unlimited funds can be pumped in to buy trophies.

 

If someone has a pile of money to pump into a club surely needing a billion plus just to own it before even start buying trophies is not as attractive as getting a club like West Ham or the bitters for next to fuck all and then pumping the money in to buy trophies....

 

 

Depends on their motives, I think. If it's global notoriety, then we are better than those clubs for that purpose. Some just want a jewel in the crown. That said, the amount of people with the kind of money it'd take to do that are pretty much gone. 

[Paul]

This obsession with the owners and money defies logic. What possible advantage would largesse give us over what we have now with Klopp, that would still allow us to retain our identity? If more money means no Trent, no Robbo, Mané or Bobby shunted to the bench, I’m out.

 

What we are doing is working amazingly well right now. Why not let it take its course? Even if we don’t win the league this year, we can continue to progress. As long as we have a top-of-his-game Klopp, we will be fine.

 

For me the big misnomer about money is that it’s the biggest factor at a successful club. It’s not; a clear strategy, successfully executed is. That’s what us, City and Spurs have and The Mancs, Arsenal and Chelsea don’t. Clearly money influences the potential of that strategy and the manager influences its impact. But it’s not the money itself that’s the key.

 

In my view, this path might just deliver the title against Pep’s City, which is amazing. However, take Pep - a guy who has done four years and three years at his last two clubs and admits he can’t do longer as he burns out - out of the equation and I’d back Klopp’s Liverpool over this City side with any other manager in the world in charge, income gulf or no income gulf.

 

In short, if it ain’t broke, why fix it? I’d sooner be Liverpool FC delivering exciting football, evolving progress and a recognisable identity than Oil Bitch FC winning trophies without a Scouser in the team and wearing fucking meff-tastic shorts and school shoes to satisfy some global branding strategy. And as for the fact that our money is self generated rather than gifted, that makes any achievement even greater in my view; purer and more honest.

 

No, fuck sugar daddies and oil states and human rights abuses. Whilst I’m under no illusions about their ultimate aims, these owners will do for me right now.

[an tha]

Depends on their motives, I think. If it's global notoriety, then we are better than those clubs for that purpose. Some just want a jewel in the crown. That said, the amount of people with the kind of money it'd take to do that are pretty much gone.

I can see that but as you say i think that might be gone.

 

I just can't see past the asking price - think what you could do with a house you buy for 200m and use 800m on doing it up etc versus being asked for 1bn just to get your name on the deeds!

[Numero Veinticinco]

This obsession with the owners and money defies logic. What possible advantage would largesse give us over what we have now with Klopp, that would still allow us to retain our identity? If more money means no Trent, no Robbo, Mané or Bobby shunted to the bench, I’m out.

 

What we are doing is working amazingly well right now. Why not let it take its course? Even if we don’t win the league this year, we can continue to progress. As long as we have a top-of-his-game Klopp, we will be fine.

 

For me the big misnomer about money is that it’s the biggest factor at a successful club. It’s not; a clear strategy, successfully executed is. That’s what us, City and Spurs have and The Mancs, Arsenal and Chelsea don’t. Clearly money influences the potential of that strategy and the manager influences its impact. But it’s not the money itself that’s the key.

 

In my view, this path might just deliver the title against Pep’s City, which is amazing. However, take Pep - a guy who has done four years and three years at his last two clubs and admits he can’t do longer as he burns out - out of the equation and I’d back Klopp’s Liverpool over this City side with any other manager in the world in charge, income gulf or no income gulf.

 

In short, if it ain’t broke, why fix it? I’d sooner be Liverpool FC delivering exciting football, evolving progress and a recognisable identity than Oil Bitch FC winning trophies without a Scouser in the team and wearing fucking meff-tastic shorts and school shoes to satisfy some global branding strategy. And as for the fact that our money is self generated rather than gifted, that makes any achievement even greater in my view; purer and more honest.

 

No, fuck sugar daddies and oil states and human rights abuses. Whilst I’m under no illusions about their ultimate aims, these owners will do for me right now.

 

 

I think money is the biggest factor, to be honest. Easily so. It's not the only thing and when you're in a market where you have lots of people close to matching your spending, it can be overridden by a number of other factors, but buying the best players and paying them, and being able to buy pretty much anything you want, is the big factor for City. Do you think, for example, that if City didn't have the investment but had the same backroom and boardroom staff, they'd be in the top 4? Nah, for me the reason for the obsession with money and ownership is clear: if we had more of it, we'd win loads more.

[Numero Veinticinco]

I can see that but as you say i think that might be gone.

 

I just can't see past the asking price - think what you could do with a house you buy for 200m and use 800m on doing it up etc versus being asked for 1bn just to get your name on the deeds!

Ah, but you're not considering the world these people move in. If they only had a billion, and didn't have other people living in the best area, they could well do that. But you don't get any street cred from your fellow trillionaires for living in a worse part of town but having a nice house. You buy your Kensington Palace AND spend 800m on it. Then another 800m if you feel like it.