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Arsenal Post-Wenger


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2 hours ago, Ron B said:

Two things that get forgotten about Clough nowadays are that he was a guy who spent big wads of cash when he wanted to, and the bizarre structure of Nottingham Forest’s ownership. 
Yes, he’s remembered for getting bargains from the lower leagues or players from big clubs who were thought to be finished (Larry Lloyd for example). But he doubled the UK transfer record when he bought Trevor Francis, and in Forest’s first season after promotion he broke the transfer record for a keeper by signing Peter Shilton. 
That wasn’t sustainable, and the European Cup-winning team was flogged off fairly quickly. But it was doubly problematic because Forest had a weird business model; without going into it in depth only a limited number of shareholders owned the club, and it was set up to stop a sugar daddy taking charge and calling the shots. That suited Clough (who had fallen out badly with multiple previous chairmen) but it made Forest less able to move with the times as football tentatively modernised during the 80s. 
That said, I think you’re underplaying how decent Forest were in the late 80s; in 1988 they finished third; one year later they repeated the trick and won two domestic cups. That’s not bad! It was only then that they got stuck in a holding pattern on mid-table finishes, before collapsing horribly and being relegated. Is that too much to hope for with Arsenal?

Interesting post. With their finances as precarious as they are I wouldn't be completely surprised to see a Leeds 00s situation .. where the few decent young players they have look to get out the club over the next couple of seasons.

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They’re a shambles from top to bottom. While Arteta has had a dreadful few months, I reckon most managers would be limited in what they could achieve there. Aubameyang has the look of somebody who clearly doesn’t want to be there, which poses problems when he’s captain. 

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9 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Yeah, people can say he's finished all they want, but one thing's for sure, he's not making this worse.

Ozil off Lacazette and Aubameyang. The rest can carry the piano.

 

It's not a bad squad. The three mentioned, Leno, Partey, Tierney, Ceballos, Willian. They're good footballers, and they certainly shouldn't be a team struggling for goals. It's weird, they spent years just signing creative midfielders. Now they've only got one and he doesn't get into match day squads. 

 

Got some properly shit defenders there, admittedly. 

 

The Aubameyang contract decision was as bad as Ozil's. Again, spent years doing the opposite letting players fuck off on the cheap, or free, and then starting paying players twice what they're worth, and on long deals, with the inevitable consequences.

 

In Europe's major leagues possibly only United and Barcelona have been run worse over the last five or six years.

 

 

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On 13/12/2020 at 21:32, Code said:

I cant see him last for much longer.

Arsenal have truly screwed the pooch though. They don’t generate money like United do; they haven’t even flirted with a title challenge in I don’t know how long; their squad is horribly lopsided and poorly constructed; the owner sees it he club as a cashcow; and behind the scenes the director of football, recruitment team, etc, clearly aren’t good enough. 
 

None of which lets Arteta off the hook, and none of which means he shouldn’t go. But it does add up to: Which manager who could make them better would want to go there? Certainly no top boss would go to the Emirates - Pochettino is waiting for United or Real, it would be a huge backward step for Allegri, and anyone else is in work. But second-tier managers would be ill-advised to go there too: Even after a couple of brilliant seasons they would have done no more than get Arsenal back into the top four, which is hardly going to transform their CV. 
 

Which leaves Arsenal with... what? Guys who have won stuff in lesser leagues (could be the next Mourinho, more likely to be the next AVB or Marco Silva). Guys who haven’t won the big trophies but have done pretty well in big leagues (Emery Part 2). Up-and-coming English managers (names on a postcard please). Or a former player who has been doing some coaching elsewhere (which Arteta is currently showing as a really optimistic plan). 

 

I know all managerial appointments are gambles to some extent. But they’re a gamble for the guy taking the job too, and anyone who Arsenal would want in the job shouldn’t touch with a bargepole. You can’t even make jokes about Big Sam taking the job anymore. 

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18 minutes ago, Ron B said:

Arsenal have truly screwed the pooch though. They don’t generate money like United do; they haven’t even flirted with a title challenge in I don’t know how long; their squad is horribly lopsided and poorly constructed; the owner sees it he club as a cashcow; and behind the scenes the director of football, recruitment team, etc, clearly aren’t good enough. 
 

None of which lets Arteta off the hook, and none of which means he shouldn’t go. But it does add up to: Which manager who could make them better would want to go there? Certainly no top boss would go to the Emirates - Pochettino is waiting for United or Real, it would be a huge backward step for Allegri, and anyone else is in work. But second-tier managers would be ill-advised to go there too: Even after a couple of brilliant seasons they would have done no more than get Arsenal back into the top four, which is hardly going to transform their CV. 
 

Which leaves Arsenal with... what? Guys who have won stuff in lesser leagues (could be the next Mourinho, more likely to be the next AVB or Marco Silva). Guys who haven’t won the big trophies but have done pretty well in big leagues (Emery Part 2). Up-and-coming English managers (names on a postcard please). Or a former player who has been doing some coaching elsewhere (which Arteta is currently showing as a really optimistic plan). 

 

I know all managerial appointments are gambles to some extent. But they’re a gamble for the guy taking the job too, and anyone who Arsenal would want in the job shouldn’t touch with a bargepole. You can’t even make jokes about Big Sam taking the job anymore. 

In all seriousness, Rafa Benitez is the sort of manager they should be looking at for the next three seasons or so and he might just be willing, pending assurances about money and control. While Arsenal are a mess, they’d still be an appealing proposition for someone who, despite being removed from his prime, has a decent track record in the division.

 

No-one is going to be expecting them to bounce back to CL contention immediately, but from their current position, a recovery to mid-table followed by top six contention next year would surely be achievable under a savvy manager.

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34 minutes ago, TheDrowningMan said:

In all seriousness, Rafa Benitez is the sort of manager they should be looking at for the next three seasons or so and he might just be willing, pending assurances about money and control. While Arsenal are a mess, they’d still be an appealing proposition for someone who, despite being removed from his prime, has a decent track record in the division.

 

No-one is going to be expecting them to bounce back to CL contention immediately, but from their current position, a recovery to mid-table followed by top six contention next year would surely be achievable under a savvy manager.

Rafa is an excellent shout - if he’d be willing to go there. I know that he loves England and the Prem, but I’m not sure whether an absentee owner, limited control, and a hostile fanbase would be his ideal combination. 

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Arsenal have a multitude of problems on and off the pitch that contribute to where they are now. 

 

The rise of Spurs and Man City turned 'the big 4' in to 'the big 6' although the way its going it will soon be 'the big 5' with Arsenal removed altogether. They don't have the same pull that ourselves or United have and they don't have the money to compete with Chelsea and City. Spurs are a much better run club that have appointed very good managers. 

 

Looking through their squad, It's pretty obvious to me that Aubameyang wanted to leave, but didn't get a big enough offer, so has reluctantly stayed at Arsenal for the money. Lacazette has a career best of 14 Premier league goals and is another one who just seems to be going through the motions. Willian and Luiz were shipped out by Chelsea because they weren't good enough, so its no surprise that they aren't good enough for Arsenal either. 

 

Thomas Partey is a good player, but hasn't played enough games yet. Tierney and Leno are ok and Martinelli and Saka are exciting prospects, but the rest of their squad range from average to below average.

 

Arteta is way out of his depth here, but in his defence I don't think many managers would be doing much better than he is doing and I'm struggling to think of a good manager that would take this job?

 

I can't see Benitez or Rogers going for it personally. 

 

 

 

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When you watch managers implementing styles of play and playing good football at small clubs, like Sassuolo for example, or Southampton, or Leeds, it gets absurd when people talk about Arsenal being a club someone can't be successful at, or that their squad isn't good enough.

 

I mean, the squad isn't great compared to the rest of the top teams in England, but they're 15th, with basically the worst attacking stats in the league. At this point, they could probably employ Tim Sherwood and he'd do a better job than Arteta. 

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2 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

When I watch managers implementing styles of play and playing good football at small clubs, like Sassuolo for example, or Southampton, or Leeds, it gets absurd when people talk about Arsenal being a club someone can't be successful at, or that their squad isn't good enough.

 

I mean, the squad isn't great compared to the rest of the top teams in England, but they're 15th, with basically the worst attacking stats in the league. At this point, they could probably employ Tim Sherwood and he'd do a better job than Arteta. 

None of that trying to play nonsense

The big clubs don'yt like it up,defend deep its the only way

 

7n1q.gif

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Yeah like I said, when you have 2 mil a week outlay on attacking players and you literally cannot score a goal in open play, then it becomes a scenario of anyone-but-Arteta. His style is the antithesis to the squad he has. They will, inevitably, have a bounce and score a heap when he leaves. Won’t last in of itself, but it’s something at least. This is terminal.

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