Liverpool 0 Stoke 0 (Apr 28 2018)

[tlw content]

I’d rather not have to write about this one if I’m perfectly honest. It was bad enough sitting through it once without having to relive the whole thing again. Considering the great things we’ve got going on and the excitement around the place at the moment, I’m surprised at how disheartened I was as I sat watching that second half. 
 
In some ways it was entirely predictable how the game unfolded, and I think that’s probably the most disheartening aspect of it. Results like this are seen as a shock but they really shouldn’t be. 
 
How is it that I feel far more confident about us playing Roma than I do Stoke or West Brom? It flies in the face of all conventional wisdom but that’s this Liverpool team. Try explaining to someone who doesn’t follow it closely. 
 
“Who you playing today?” 
 
“Stoke” 
 
“They any good?” 
 
“No they’re crap, second from bottom.” 
 
“You should win then?” 
 
“Well no actually.” 
 
“Eh? Why not?” 
 
That’s the conversation I have with my missus probably 15-20 times a season (obviously replace ‘Stoke’ with any number of shite teams). The reason I have the same conversation so many times is twofold. Firstly, when I explain the nuances of why we beat the best teams but struggle against the dregs, she usually switches off the moment I start talking about ‘packed defences’ or ‘deep defensive lines’. And secondly, because we keep dropping points to shite. 
 
That’s why I think the reaction to this result was so extreme on both sides. There seems to be two main reaction camps here. There are those who think these recent league results show how far behind we still are, and those who couldn’t care less about these league games because we’ve got bigger fish to fry. I’ve got a foot in both camps. I see both points of view and I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive. 
 
The thing that I don’t really like is how every time we drop points the attitude from many (including the players) seems to be that it’s fine because we’ve still got a cushion over Chelsea and all we need is ‘X amount’ of points to guarantee top four. That’s true, but when did 4th place become the ‘goal’ rather than the consolation prize? 
 
A few weeks ago we were realistically aiming for second spot. Then that went by the wayside but it’s fine, we’ll hold off Spurs for third. We still might, but only if Spurs don’t win their remaining fixtures. The bar has been lowered week by week, and why? Because we keep failing to beat some of the worst teams in the league. It shouldn’t have come to this and frankly it’s embarrassing that it might go to the last game. Our run in was fucking piss easy but we’re limping over the line. 
 
If we win number six then none of us are going to care too much if we finish third or fourth, or even fifth for that matter, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t significant and should be dismissed. This is a significant problem we have and until it’s addressed the title isn’t coming back to Anfield any time soon. 
 
What we’re doing in Europe is amazing and obviously I’m loving it. Not gonna lie though, I was pretty miserable watching that second half against Stoke. I can’t just dismiss it on the basis of it being a natural consequence of Champions League commitments and having to rest players or whatever. It’s not like it’s an isolated occurrence is it? We’ve been dropping points to shite all season and it’s not always because of Europe or shit referees. 
 
It worries me. There seems to be this assumption that we’ll automatically be challengers next season and we can give City a real run for their oil money. It’s wishful thinking. How can we expect to challenge when we drop so many points to shite teams? That’s not how you win leagues. You win leagues by taking care of business against the dregs. 
 

This is just a teaser, click here to view the full report

 

Please note that Match Reports are only available to website subscribers. Subscriptions cost just £2 a month (you need to register first) and can be purchased here. If you are not currently registered on the site, sign up for free and receive a FREE no obligation trial subscription, which gives you access to all the members only content for ONE MONTH.

[rb14]

Stoke.

 

Utterly disgraceful that we should be held at home by Stoke.

 

Stoke.

 

The reason the mancs are in a safe second place? They drop far fewer points to shite. Would I prefer we play shite football and be in second place? No. No way. But build that mentality of 'we're not going to drop shit points to shit' and then you can start playing decent footy and not drop points.

 

Stoke.

[rb14]

Stoke.

[Aventus]

Stoke.

 

Utterly disgraceful that we should be held at home by Stoke.

 

Stoke.

 

The reason the mancs are in a safe second place? They drop far fewer points to shite. Would I prefer we play shite football and be in second place? No. No way. But build that mentality of 'we're not going to drop shit points to shit' and then you can start playing decent footy and not drop points.

 

Stoke.

If United were still in the champions league and not us I reckon we'd be comfortably in 2nd right now.

 

And I know whose position I'd rather be in, and so do they.

[Josef Svejk]

You're right. There isn't the slightest chance we'll challenge for the league next season.

 

The main reason, from my perspective, is that we don't invest adequately in our squad. We might have 10-15 good players at any one time. But we never have 20+. We're just not willing to invest the kind of money that takes.

 

Two quality players for each position is the Mourinho mantra, isn't it? I think he's right about that. The cunt.

[dockers_strike]

Hmmm I know what Dave is getting at but to be fair I think we have to look at this season in 2 halves. The first when we did not have van Dijk was the real same ol story. Giving goals away and failing to beat shit teams. Second half when we signed van Dijk we stopped shipping goals although you can never stop them all. Plus, you are still on a learning curve. In the main during the second half of the season we have beat the shit teams. it is only the last 2 games against West Brom who have gone through a mini revival beating United and Newcastle away while coming back to draw 2-2 with us. The Stoke game was just a massive anti climax. The crowd did not seem up for the game preferring instead to dream about wednesday. The players likewise. And to be fair to them even some of our greatest teams sometimes went through the motions before we played a big European Final but they had the advantage enjoyed by City now that most teams were beaten in their heads before the games started.

 

That is not to say we do not need to continually improve. We do. We played West Brom and Stoke at the wrong time for us. Lots of injuries and the biggest game for 10 years on everyones mind in a few days time.

[DaveTucker]

Great report as ever.

 

Very disappointing game but I do think we've made progress beating the dross in the second half of the season. Not counting decent sides since the West Brom cup defeat we had a run of:-

 

3-0 Huddersfield

2-0 Southampton

4-1 West Ham

2-0 Newcastle

5-0 Watford

2-1 Palace

0-0 Everton

3-0 Bournemouth

 

Pretty impressive given excuses can be made for the Everton draw.

 

I think the emergence of Oxlade Chamberlain in CM made a difference in a number of these games as his drive causes havoc and offers something different to our other midfielders. I think he was missed Saturday.

 

Squad depth is also a major factor. We've been fortunate the front 3 have mainly stayed fit but it showed how much we suffer if we lose one. Now the midfield is also stretched we have a problem.   

[Rushies tash]

It's the lack of urgency or the willingness to take any risks against the shite teams in the league that pisses me off most. The energy we save in not having to press should be spent in more intelligent running off the ball - and players who are brave enough to pass the ball into those spaces rather than just lay the ball square. I know it's also about retaining possession and recycling the ball but it's infuriating to watch against teams that have no intention of being pulled out of shape.

[johnsusername]

The players were saving themselves for Wednesday.

 

We haven't got the squad to cope with trying to win the champions league and the premier league in one season. Compared to city, chelsea and man utd i'm not sure we ever will. It'll always be one or the other. 

[johnsusername]

And next season - the bigger squads will be able to cope better in a post-World Cup season. 

[dave u]

Great report as ever.

 

Very disappointing game but I do think we've made progress beating the dross in the second half of the season. Not counting decent sides since the West Brom cup defeat we had a run of:-

 

3-0 Huddersfield

2-0 Southampton

4-1 West Ham

2-0 Newcastle

5-0 Watford

2-1 Palace

0-0 Everton

3-0 Bournemouth

 

Pretty impressive given excuses can be made for the Everton draw.

 

I think the emergence of Oxlade Chamberlain in CM made a difference in a number of these games as his drive causes havoc and offers something different to our other midfielders. I think he was missed Saturday.

 

Squad depth is also a major factor. We've been fortunate the front 3 have mainly stayed fit but it showed how much we suffer if we lose one. Now the midfield is also stretched we have a problem.   

 

We have runs like that every season really. It's not like every shit team we play takes points off us, and usually when we score early we go on and hammer them. It's just that over the course of a season there are always a load of games against shite we come unstuck.

 

Agreed about missing Ox and the lack of depth up front.

[dockers_strike]

The players were saving themselves for Wednesday.

 

We haven't got the squad to cope with trying to win the champions league and the premier league in one season. Compared to city, chelsea and man utd i'm not sure we ever will. It'll always be one or the other. 

 

Totally agree.

[Rushies tash]

The players were saving themselves for Wednesday.

 

We haven't got the squad to cope with trying to win the champions league and the premier league in one season. Compared to city, chelsea and man utd i'm not sure we ever will. It'll always be one or the other.

 

In isolation I'd be inclined to agree, but we saw the same insipid shite against Swansea when we lost there 1-0. Both full backs were afraid to get beyond the last man, and the only time I could recall anyone making a run into the area beyond defenders was when Bobby hit the post in the last minute. It's a recurring theme against the bottom dwellers - though as has been pointed out, thankfully less this year than it has been in recent years.

[index1000]

Sorry but what a load of bollocks. 2nd place isn't the goal. Big Ears No 6 is and that is reflected in performances like this. 

[scudger99]

We were missing a catalyst, someone who would take the game by the scruff of the neck, rattle a few cages and put Stoke on the back foot by running at them with the ball.

Someone like Naby Keita.  Keita doesn't appear to do subdued, the crazy fucker goes to the other extreme though.

[suzy]

Interesting about the early kick offs. Klopp really moans about them so I wonder if his attitude rubs off on the players?

[DaveTucker]

We have runs like that every season really. It's not like every shit team we play takes points off us, and usually when we score early we go on and hammer them. It's just that over the course of a season there are always a load of games against shite we come unstuck.

 

Agreed about missing Ox and the lack of depth up front.

[DaveTucker]

I know what you mean but I'm not sure we do have consecutive runs like that every year. 2014 aside. Usually things pick up and we look at a run of games against lower teams rubbing our hands and then royally fuck it up. Unfortunately we appear to have reverted to type in recent weeks but I'm a bit more optimistic we can get back on it once people are fit. The important thing is to strengthen well in the summer to hopefully avoid these blips in future.

[Guest Alex_K]

The reason United are 2nd is because they’ve got superb depth across the whole park - Martial, Lukaku, Rashford, Sanchez, Mata, Lingard (prev Ibra) for the forward positions alone. People comparing performances out of context is a most-hate. We didn’t play like v Roma because ... it wasn’t the team as v Roma. There is no depth and expecting Championship players to summon the form of potential European champions just because they wear the red shirt of Liverpool is fanciful. No title challenge will materialise until the squad is fleshed out .... not because of mysterious intangibles or mentality but because the bench is more or less total garbage (especially offensively) because 0 has been spent on it

 

Right now if you want Liverpool to be competitive domestically & in Europe then you’re basically looking at a core of 10 players playing high octane football for 60 odd games and thousands more minutes than their peers ... it’s never going to happen.

[dockers_strike]

One of the reasons United are second is because their manager plays a far more conservative game than us. Do not attack in numbers means more defensive attitude. That is not to say they do not attack and to suggest so is clearly ludicrous. As I said in my other post we need to look at us in the 2 halves of the season. First half we drew far too many especially from winning positions. Second half of the season there has been a change for the better. Next season if the same thing happens then yes we would have reverted to type. We will always drop points to shitty teams. Everyone does. We have to cut them out and on the whole the second half of the season shows we have.

[Red74]

If we’d have been 2-0 up, we’d have got that pen in the 2nd half. We never get a decision when the plucky underdog are still in the game that late against us

[Erik T]

I know our front trio is scoring goals for fun but when they have a bad day at the office or cannot play due to injury or suspension, as they did on Saturday (with Mane out because of injury) we need goals from the midfield players. Yet Henderson, Milner and Wijnaldum have only scored 2 goals between them this season, I think (in the Premier League). That is ridiculous. For comparison, Can has scored 6, Oxlade-Chamberlain 5 and Lallana probably would have scored 5-6 had he not been injured all season. All our goal-scoring midfielders are injured at the moment, that is pretty bad luck. Keita could add 8-10 goals next season if he can keep his goals percentage from Austria and Germany going in the Premier League.

[JustTosh]

Let's not forget the huge difference between a draw and a loss. Now we can secure 4th place by not loosing at the bridge and if we do lose faith is still in our hands before the last game against Brighton.

 

With a loss it could've been out of our control if we were to loose at the bridge,

 

Let's just finish the job this week end.

[sir roger]

Let's not forget the huge difference between a draw and a loss. Now we can secure 4th place by not loosing at the bridge and if we do lose faith is still in our hands before the last game against Brighton.

 

With a loss it could've been out of our control if we were to loose at the bridge,

 

Let's just finish the job this week end.

 

True JT , that Shawcross effort scraping past the post in the last minute could be vital although most of us barely registered it as we were too busy cursing Marriner.