Profit

[an tha]

Profit can go in the summer.

[SammyAftershave]

James Pearce is so hot.

 

i'd like to see him dressing more often in summer frocks before conclusively making my mind up.

[dockers_strike]

Makes you think a little.

 

It’s six years since Liverpool’s accounts laid bare the true cost of clearing up the mess left by former owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

 

The financial results for 2011 – published in May 2012 - showed that the Reds made an annual loss of nearly £50millon before tax. Total club revenue had fallen by just under a million pounds to £183.6million as Liverpool adjusted to life outside the Champions League.

 

Fenway Sports Group had just written off £35million linked to design, legal and administrative costs on the doomed new stadium project - commissioned by Hicks and Gillett - in Stanley Park.

Another ‘exceptional item’ in those accounts was the £8.4million spent on hiring and then sacking Roy Hodgson and his backroom staff. FSG had inherited a mess both on and off the pitch.

 

No wonder Liverpool’s chief operating officer Andy Hughes today reflected upon “a complete transformation” following the release of the club’s accounts for the year ending May 31 2017.

That revenue figure of £183.6million now stands at £364million. That £49.3million loss before tax is now a £39million profit after tax.

 

Here’s how Liverpool’s financial landscape has evolved during those intervening years.

2011/12 : The Reds’ loss before tax was reduced to £40.5m. The cost of rebuilding the squad and paying off under-achieving players during a season without European football saw overall debts rise by almost £22m to £87.2m. The accounts – reduced to a 10-month period to put the following year’s in line with the playing season - showed turnover of £169m. Had the accounts been taken over 12 months that would have translated to a rise on the previous year of just over £5m.

 

2012/13 : Liverpool made an annual loss of £49.8m during Brendan Rodgers’ first season in charge but turnover broke through the £200m barrier for the first time, climbing to £206.1m – a rise of 9%. Club bank debts were reduced by £19.9m to £45.1m mainly due to a £46.8m interest free inter-company loan from FSG. Liverpool dropped out of the top 10 in the Deloitte Football Money League.

 

2013/14 : Liverpool were back in the black for the first time in seven years for the 12-month period to May 31, 2014. They recorded a modest profit just short of £1m and also climbed three places to ninth in the Deloitte Football Money League. Overall revenue climbed 19% to £255.6m. Liverpool’s net debt increased by £12m to £57m but that figure is always influenced by the timing of the instalments going in and out of the club for transfer deals. The debt level when FSG bought the club in 2010 was £237m.

 

2014/15 : The sale of Luis Suarez to Barcelona explained why Liverpool recorded a big profit before tax of £60m. Total revenue increased by 16.5% to £297.9m with media up 21.5% to £122.6m, commercial up 12% to £116.3m and matchday up 15.9% to £59m. FSG converted £69m of debt into equity and invested £49m for stadium expansion costs.

 

2015/16 : Liverpool’s revenue broke through the £300m barrier for the first time with £301.8million generated in the year ending May 31, 2016. However, the Reds made a pre-tax loss of £19.8m. One of the factors behind that was the cost of sacking Rodgers in October 2015 and hiring Jurgen Klopp . Another reason was the building of the new Main Stand with the loss of footfall hitting commercial business. Media revenue went up £1m to £123.6m and matchday increased by £3.4m to £62.4m but commercial decreased by £0.7m to £115.7m.

 

2016/17 : The latest accounts, which show a profit after tax of £39m and record revenue of £364m, are all the more impressive considering this was a season without European football. The extra £12m from matchdays underlines the value of the new Main Stand.

 

There’s been sustained growth across the board which is being re-invested both into Klopp’s playing squad and the infrastructure of the club with the new training ground complex. With Liverpool currently competing in the knockout stages of the lucrative Champions League, the next set of accounts promise to be even better.

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpools-finances-fsg-years-assessed-14353937

[Numero Veinticinco]

I'm really happy with the way the club is being run in terms of a business entity. The long term health and sustainability is important to the survival of the club off the pitch and to the success on the pitch. However, these business succeses off the field need to translate to team building and trophy winning on the pitch. We are starting to recover, not just from Hicks and Gillett, but from Moores and Parry who dropped the ball. That must now lead to more money and spending for the manager.

[dockers_strike]

I'm really happy with the way the club is being run in terms of a business entity. The long term health and sustainability is important to the survival of the club off the pitch and to the success on the pitch. However, these business succeses off the field need to translate to team building and trophy winning on the pitch. We are starting to recover, not just from Hicks and Gillett, but from Moores and Parry who dropped the ball. That must now lead to more money and spending for the manager.

 

The club was a basket case at the end of the last ownership regime and I do not know how some ignore that. Whether people like the current owners or not is pretty much immaterial because I dont think all fans every like everything their club owners do. City fans may be the exception to that right now but I also know a few who say their City died when they left Maine Road. But the sea change that has been brought to Liverpool has turned it around and put the club onto a strong andstable position. If people cannot feel some enthusiasm now I dont know if they ever would.

[Marko121]

The club was a basket case at the end of the last ownership regime and I do not know how some ignore that. Whether people like the current owners or not is pretty much immaterial because I dont think all fans every like everything their club owners do. City fans may be the exception to that right now but I also know a few who say their City died when they left Maine Road. But the sea change that has been brought to Liverpool has turned it around and put the club onto a strong andstable position. If people cannot feel some enthusiasm now I dont know if they ever would.

Whilst I agree with the gist of what you say here.

 

I worry about when the strong and stable position you mention will translate to actually winning trophies?

 

That surely is the next logical and obvious step isn’t it?

[dockers_strike]

Whilst I agree with the gist of what you say here.

 

I worry about when the strong and stable position you mention will translate to actually winning trophies?

 

That surely is the next logical and obvious step isn’t it?

 

Yes winning trophies has to be the objective. We were in two finals in the managers first 9 months in charge. Maybe he just got lucky and we fell at the last hurdle. I am convinced Jurgen will bring trophies to the club. Personally I want it to be the title rather than any of the 2 cups. If he could bring the CL home this season that would be amazing. But the bottom line is you are not going to win trophies if your club is not financially sound. And I think all this stuff about yachts is just bollocks myself.

[Marko121]

Yes winning trophies has to be the objective. We were in two finals in the managers first 9 months in charge. Maybe he just got lucky and we fell at the last hurdle. I am convinced Jurgen will bring trophies to the club. Personally I want it to be the title rather than any of the 2 cups. If he could bring the CL home this season that would be amazing. But the bottom line is you are not going to win trophies if your club is not financially sound. And I think all this stuff about yachts is just bollocks myself.

It’s the shoulda, woulda, coulda. We didn’t win those finals.

 

I really don’t mind which trophy is first as I think that it is the most important one as it gives the club and players the hunger, or should do.

 

Where we differ is that I’m not convinced that winning trophies is the objective for the owners and they would be happy with strong and stable.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Yes winning trophies has to be the objective. We were in two finals in the managers first 9 months in charge. Maybe he just got lucky and we fell at the last hurdle. I am convinced Jurgen will bring trophies to the club. Personally I want it to be the title rather than any of the 2 cups. If he could bring the CL home this season that would be amazing. But the bottom line is you are not going to win trophies if your club is not financially sound. And I think all this stuff about yachts is just bollocks myself.

Not to mention both stupid and unfunny.

[Trumo]

Another ‘exceptional item’ in those accounts was the £8.4million spent on hiring and then sacking Roy Hodgson and his backroom staff. FSG had inherited a mess both on and off the pitch.

 

'Pissing money up the wall' is the official accounting term for such foolhardiness.

[dockers_strike]

It’s the shoulda, woulda, coulda. We didn’t win those finals.

 

I really don’t mind which trophy is first as I think that it is the most important one as it gives the club and players the hunger, or should do.

 

Where we differ is that I’m not convinced that winning trophies is the objective for the owners and they would be happy with strong and stable.

 

Hey guess what, life and sport is like that. There are no guarantees about winning. Yeah if you have a budget of an oil nation behind you a club would need to have a pretty incompetent manager running the team not to win anything. I find it weird people get more uptight that we have not won a cup for 5 going on 6 years than they do as 18 times Champions of England we have not been champions again since 1990. I know there are a few people who think the same way but we seem to be in the minority. I cannot convince you that the owners objective is to win trophies that is up to you to resolve. But why do you think Klopp is here. Is he just happy to be the owners puppet because they pay him £6m a year. He could virtually walking into any top club in Europe where the owners would want to win trophies if he thought the current owners here did not want to do that. Does not stack up.

[Marko121]

Hey guess what, life and sport is like that. There are no guarantees about winning. Yeah if you have a budget of an oil nation behind you a club would need to have a pretty incompetent manager running the team not to win anything. I find it weird people get more uptight that we have not won a cup for 5 going on 6 years than they do as 18 times Champions of England we have not been champions again since 1990. I know there are a few people who think the same way but we seem to be in the minority. I cannot convince you that the owners objective is to win trophies that is up to you to resolve. But why do you think Klopp is here. Is he just happy to be the owners puppet because they pay him £6m a year. He could virtually walking into any top club in Europe where the owners would want to win trophies if he thought the current owners here did not want to do that. Does not stack up.

As far as trophies are concerned at the mo, I think that any trophy would be good as winning breeds winning

 

As far as the owners go, I think you and me will always differ.

 

My opinion of Klopp is that I’m sure he wants to win and I hope he is here for a long time.

 

I reckon he has the belief in himself that he can win trophies under the financial conditions at LFC.

 

I also think 1 of 2 things will happen:

 

1 Klopp wins trophies and is cherry picked by the European clubs you allude to.

 

2 Klopp realises that he can’t win trophies consistently under the financial conditions at LFC and he moves on.

 

I don’t think he will be here much longer myself.

[dockers_strike]

As far as trophies are concerned at the mo, I think that any trophy would be good as winning breeds winning

 

As far as the owners go, I think you and me will always differ.

 

My opinion of Klopp is that I’m sure he wants to win and I hope he is here for a long time.

 

I reckon he has the belief in himself that he can win trophies under the financial conditions at LFC.

 

I also think 1 of 2 things will happen:

 

1 Klopp wins trophies and is cherry picked by the European clubs you allude to.

 

2 Klopp realises that he can’t win trophies consistently under the financial conditions at LFC and he moves on.

 

I don’t think he will be here much longer myself.

 

I think you missed the most likely scenario he will be here a long time. His make up shows he does not want to manage just any club. He already turned down Manchester United. I think he will win trophies although my biggest fear is that City will dominate the Premier League for at least the next 4 or 5 maybe 6 years.

[Marko121]

I think you missed the most likely scenario he will be here a long time. His make up shows he does not want to manage just any club. He already turned down Manchester United. I think he will win trophies although my biggest fear is that City will dominate the Premier League for at least the next 4 or 5 maybe 6 years.

I agree regarding his make up. I think he really wants the challenge here.

 

But, he also wants to win.

 

Your scenario will only play out if he wins trophies here consistently. I think he will only stay if the success is ongoing and the club is seen to be progressing otherwise, we will get the “ taken the club as far as I can “ line and he will move on.

 

I don’t think your scenario will happen under FSG.

[magicrat]

I think you missed the most likely scenario he will be here a long time. His make up shows he does not want to manage just any club. He already turned down Manchester United. I think he will win trophies although my biggest fear is that City will dominate the Premier League for at least the next 4 or 5 maybe 6 years.

 

City will certainly be the team to beat next season but if they do win it then I'm betting on being a much closer race.. Guardiola wont build a Ferguson like dynasty there and players will come and go and they will hit rough patches . Other teams will improve and find ways to frustrate them. I fear Utd may run them very close next time,

[dockers_strike]

City will certainly be the team to beat next season but if they do win it then I'm betting on being a much closer race.. Guardiola wont build a Ferguson like dynasty there and players will come and go and they will hit rough patches . Other teams will improve and find ways to frustrate them. I fear Utd may run them very close next time,

 

I think as long as Gaurdiola stays there they will dominate the league especially as they are happy to spend £50m for just about any squad player now so even their second tier players are capable of having good runs in the domestic cups. I do not think they will bother much with the FA and League Cups going forward after this season. They will concentrate on the League and Champions League. Yeah he may only stay another 4 or 5 seasons.

[magicrat]

I think as long as Gaurdiola stays there they will dominate the league especially as they are happy to spend £50m for just about any squad player now so even their second tier players are capable of having good runs in the domestic cups. I do not think they will bother much with the FA and League Cups going forward after this season. They will concentrate on the League and Champions League. Yeah he may only stay another 4 or 5 seasons.

 

Far too pessimistic .  The era of Slur type domination of the league has passed imo,

Not saying he wont win it next time out but it wont be a stroll in the park again.

[dockers_strike]

Far too pessimistic .  The era of Slur type domination of the league has passed imo,

Not saying he wont win it next time out but it wont be a stroll in the park again.

 

I do not think Gaurdiola will stay anywhere near as long as Ferguson. But I do think City could quite easily win 3 or 4 titles on the bounce with the squad he has and more importantly the ability to go out and buy just about any player. I agree I do not see them winning the title in future years by such a big margin. Hope you are right and I am wrong.

[Bad Red Bull]

 I fear Utd may run them very close next time,

 

Isnt that what people have been fearing for quite some seasons now? With Mourinho at the helm, they wont be closer than any of us. The Mourinho of 2003-04 might have run them close but not the current one. 

[Grinch]

Ah no more old accounts being used to falsely show we spend what we earn.  The next set will be even worse since income will again rise with fuck all being spent on the squad.

[dylstar]

Some people will turn this into a bad thing.

 

But the fact is it directly or indirectly got us:

New Main Stand

New Kirkby training complex

Jürgen Klopp for the long term

Firmino

Salah

Mané

Van Dijk

Keita

 

Among a lot of other good things.

[magicrat]

Isnt that what people have been fearing for quite some seasons now? With Mourinho at the helm, they wont be closer than any of us. The Mourinho of 2003-04 might have run them close but not the current one. 

 

The money they spend they could win it despite Mourinho . 

[The Woolster]

Ah no more old accounts being used to falsely show we spend what we earn.  The next set will be even worse since income will again rise with fuck all being spent on the squad.

 

The accounts haven't been published yet, but the press release says that net debt increased by £22m, which suggests that we spent more than what came in, unless they have started to take out dividends.

 

Its quite a simple equation, if you spend less cash than the cash that came in, then you either increase your cash balance or you reduce your debt balance, either way net debt goes down. You spend more than you earned, and the opposite happens.

 

So not only were you chatting bullshit before, you are chatting bullshit now, and I'm pretty sure you will continue with the bullshit too.

[razor]

the next set of accounts promise to be even better.

 

That's right, it's time to celebrate!  Next year promises to be even better!

 

We all dream of a team of responsible fiscal prudence, a team of responsible fiscal prudence...

[dockers_strike]

Ah no more old accounts being used to falsely show we spend what we earn.  The next set will be even worse since income will again rise with fuck all being spent on the squad.

 

Falsifying accounts is actually fraud.