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Guest Pistonbroke

22nd Jan PL, The Swans better Duck, the Liver Birds are in town. Swansea v Liverpool

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Nothing against Danny Ings but seeing him come on as a sub in the second half to help us turn the game around was disheartening.

Especially with the transfer window still open and Arsenal likely to sign Aubameyang and the Mancs getting a huge boost of Sanchez joining them.

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To anybody thats actually played 11 aside football, I cant see what is so difficult about a team that defends like that. Its bizzarre. Id have loved playing a team like that.

 

Why did we keep trying to go wide and float delicate crosses in to a sea of white shirts?  You have to change your approach. Set your attack in banks of 3 and 4 and just run in straight lines at them. Dont try and thread through them, theres too many of them.

 

If you keep just running centrally at them, eventually you will get a bobble/deflection that gives an opportunity. They will change their approach as they will realise they cant face that for 90mins. What they can cope with is tentative build up and sideways passes, light crosses and ballooning shots over the bar. They can only clear the ball and you will receive it back as there isnt anyone for them to clear too.

 

Keep it central and persist.

 

Wijnaldum was pretty awful last night, I watched him as much as I could and he spent large parts walking around, even when we were on the break.

 

Thought Robertson was the only player putting a shift in.

 

We are likely to beat Spurs with Wiljnaldum having a great game. 

 

It does appear that we made contact with Lepzig regards bringing Keita move forward, suggesting we identified the need to strengthen. That drew a blank so we are are sitting tight.

 

We all laugh at Conte who is getting linked with target men past their best, but in fairness to him, he's identified an area that he know needs cover and options, cant get a long term solution this month, so is trying to find a stop gap- something/someone is better than nothing at all.

 

I have no doubt we will recover quickly from this but its so frustrating that we arent showing signs of improvement  when faced with teams like last night

 

Got to agree with this. Every goal we want to score seems to have to be a perfect or well worked goal. What is wrong with having a few shots and looking for the inevitable re bound instead of trying to go on mazy runs into a packed defence. Last night all off Bobby Mane and Salah were trying to dribble past 3 and 4 players. You might get through them when there is half a pitch to go at but two banks of 4 on top of each other you are not. I like Gini but away from home he is so ineffective. Even his home goals have dried up. To be honest I just thought Can was his same old same old slowing the play down and taking 3 touches when one was needed.

 

The game also highlighted to me that Gomez is not the player many appear to think he is. Yes he is quick but did any of his crosses go to a red shirt. He also got skinned in the first half when he dived in. What has not been picked up by many was Karius effort when Ayew crossed the ball when it went out. Again he was beaten on his near post but look at Karius. He is actually looking in the opposite direction to where the ball was going and had no idea where it was. What in gods name is Achterberg doing if he is not drilling it into the keepers to keep their eye on the ball all the time.

 

Their goal was a blundering calamity. Look at the pictures of van Dijk heading that ball. Why are 4 of our players going for the same ball. 2 of them are still on the ground while at least one has jumped into van Dijk impeeding him getting a good header in. If we are zonal marking how are 4 all going for the same ball. I felt sorry for van Dijk last night because he is the one being blamed for a poor header when 3 of his colleagues should be the ones getting it.

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That was awful. And those type of games are why we need more alternatives up front. And i find it bizarre how few shots we took from outside the area. Fucking get into a decent position and shoot for a change.

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Got to agree with this. Every goal we want to score seems to have to be a perfect or well worked goal. What is wrong with having a few shots and looking for the inevitable re bound instead of trying to go on mazy runs into a packed defence. Last night all off Bobby Mane and Salah were trying to dribble past 3 and 4 players. You might get through them when there is half a pitch to go at but two banks of 4 on top of each other you are not. I like Gini but away from home he is so ineffective. Even his home goals have dried up. To be honest I just thought Can was his same old same old slowing the play down and taking 3 touches when one was needed.

 

The game also highlighted to me that Gomez is not the player many appear to think he is. Yes he is quick but did any of his crosses go to a red shirt. He also got skinned in the first half when he dived in. What has not been picked up by many was Karius effort when Ayew crossed the ball when it went out. Again he was beaten on his near post but look at Karius. He is actually looking in the opposite direction to where the ball was going and had no idea where it was. What in gods name is Achterberg doing if he is not drilling it into the keepers to keep their eye on the ball all the time.

 

Their goal was a blundering calamity. Look at the pictures of van Dijk heading that ball. Why are 4 of our players going for the same ball. 2 of them are still on the ground while at least one has jumped into van Dijk impeeding him getting a good header in. If we are zonal marking how are 4 all going for the same ball. I felt sorry for van Dijk last night because he is the one being blamed for a poor header when 3 of his colleagues should be the ones getting it.

I agree with this too. Far too many touches in and around the penalty area and our striker decided to play as a midfielder instead. Firmino has had a great season but failed to deliver in a lot of these types of games because he drops off deep and makes it easier to defend against. There is nothing wrong with that if you have a striking partner in the traditional sense and having a central front two. I realise this may sound like a dinosaur in the modern age but a tweaked 4-4-2 is a decent option in these games. Its also difficult asking full backs to provide width and be good defenders too if you aren't going to buy world class players in those positions. Of course when you tweak tactics you need good players,players with good game intelligence and an actual good amount of players to select from. We do have a few from the first and second category but the third category is our big weakness. Just look at our bench for proof of that.

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That was awful. And those type of games are why we need more alternatives up front. And i find it bizarre how few shots we took from outside the area. Fucking get into a decent position and shoot for a change.

Apart from Coutinho - who in our team over the last couple of seasons has looked likely to contribute goals on an even reasonably odd time from distance?

 

The answer for me against bus parkers is width and vision...last night our width was poor in terms of both delivery and in terms of getting into space (as well as not great movement ahead) and our vision from midfield was virtually non existent...

 

To thread it through the eye of a needle as we kept trying to requires the sort of guile that Can, Wijnaldum and AOC don't have enough of.....in turn our front 3 keep coming looking for it further from goal and then are trying to hurt teams faced with banks of 4 and often 20 yards further from goal than we would ideally like them or where they would often be getting it with better vision, delivery and guile behind them.

 

The front 3 kept dropping back looking to be the guile they need to feed them last night.

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I liked the Swansea managers analogy of putting Liverpool (a Formula One car) in a busy London street. 

What we maybe need for these approaches are more of a fiat punto car and less of the F1 car. I've often considered that a second string team would probably get a much better result against teams playing this way against us than our first choice team.

 

This of course is nothing new, we've been watching this kind of game against us for years and years and successive managers have all failed to find an answer, which is why it is so much used in this league. 

 

I have long been the proponent of no points for a 0-0, while it wouldn't have mattered much last night it would have some change on the mindset of the teams that base their whole gameplay on killing the game. In conjunction with a 60 minute game with the clock stopping when the ball was out of play, you'd eliminate the whole Allardyce/Pulis Ethos.

 

That still doesn't mean we shouldn't have buried our chances, we had enough of them to win the game last night and we didn't. We are not consistent enough to be a top team, be that tactics, squad, owners, cash or whatever you want to choose to blame it on. 

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Apart from Coutinho - who in our team over the last couple of seasons has looked likely to contribute goals on an even reasonably odd time from distance?

 

The answer for me against bus parkers is width and vision...last night our width was poor in terms of both delivery and in terms of getting into space (as well as not great movement ahead) and our vision from midfield was virtually non existent...

 

To thread it through the eye of a needle as we kept trying to requires the sort of guile that Can, Wijnaldum and AOC don't have enough of.....in turn our front 3 keep coming looking for it further from goal and then are trying to hurt teams faced with banks of 4 and often 20 yards further from goal than we would ideally like them or where they would often be getting it with better vision, delivery and guile behind them.

 

The front 3 kept dropping back looking to be the guile they need to feed them last night.

 

I agree, Robertson and Gomez did not get inte space enough and their delivery was horrendous. And yeah, Coutinho has pretty much looked the only one to score from distance. But Can, Mane and Wijnaldum can shoot and when nothing else seems to be working i dont understand why they wont try more.

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Karius

TAA Matip VVD Moreno

Can

Lallana AOC

Salaha Firmino Mane

 

I think this is probably our best team against the shite. No need for the two more defensive fullbacks, or the anonymous Wijnaldum. It's not a great team by any shakes, but it's the best we can put out.

 

I don't hate the shouts of playing two up front either. Obviously it was only quarter of an hour, but Ings looked sharper than I'd anticipated. 

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Klopp’s reticence to play Trent baffles me. Gomez has come on leaps and bounds this year and I will admit he’s a very good defender, he’s strong, quick with great acceleration and has great anticipation but he really cannot play fullback against this type of shite. Klopp obviously has concerns about Trent’s defensive capabilities, and he was caught out a few times earlier in the season but in recent games he’s played he’s been absolutely fine. He’s superb going forward and needs to play against teams who set up like last night, I don’t see the logic. Team like Swansea are not ambitious enough nor are they going to have enough of the ball to expose Trent’s alleged suspect defensive capabilities.

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We could've played a 4-2-4 yesterday. Swansea had zero ambition to get forward and neither will Huddersfield. Why we absolutely have to play 4-3-3, I'm not sure. It's not like we need the extra man in midfield when the opposition plays 7 at the back.

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Scraping for positives, but VVD looked pretty assured throughout, and delivered a great ball for Firmino at the end. Robertson was busy and tenacious.

 

Em, that's about it.

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Apart from Coutinho - who in our team over the last couple of seasons has looked likely to contribute goals on an even reasonably odd time from distance?

 

The answer for me against bus parkers is width and vision...last night our width was poor in terms of both delivery and in terms of getting into space (as well as not great movement ahead) and our vision from midfield was virtually non existent...

 

To thread it through the eye of a needle as we kept trying to requires the sort of guile that Can, Wijnaldum and AOC don't have enough of.....in turn our front 3 keep coming looking for it further from goal and then are trying to hurt teams faced with banks of 4 and often 20 yards further from goal than we would ideally like them or where they would often be getting it with better vision, delivery and guile behind them.

 

The front 3 kept dropping back looking to be the guile they need to feed them last night.

Robertson did his best to provide from out wide.

One particular ball he put straight across the face of goal, and nobody ran on to it for a tap in. The look on his face as the ball went out said it all.

We don't have a striker / poacher so can't expect much else in tight games like that.

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Klopp’s reticence to play Trent baffles me. Gomez has come on leaps and bounds this year and I will admit he’s a very good defender, he’s strong, quick with great acceleration and has great anticipation but he really cannot play fullback against this type of shite. Klopp obviously has concerns about Trent’s defensive capabilities, and he was caught out a few times earlier in the season but in recent games he’s played he’s been absolutely fine. He’s superb going forward and needs to play against teams who set up like last night, I don’t see the logic. Team like Swansea are not ambitious enough nor are they going to have enough of the ball to expose Trent’s alleged suspect defensive capabilities.

I find it quite contrarian of Klopp to persist with Gomez at RB since his England MOTM performance v a full strength Brazil. 

What exactly is stopping us lining up with TAA Gomez VVD Robertson?

It also took a fucking age for, a massively superior in all aspects, Robertson to oust Bert Moron too.

Bit weird?

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I find it quite contrarian of Klopp to persist with Gomez at RB since his England MOTM performance v a full strength Brazil. 

What exactly is stopping us lining up with TAA Gomez VVD Robertson?

It also took a fucking age for, a massively superior in all aspects, Robertson to oust Bert Moron too.

Bit weird?

 

So you do not think Jurgen is the answer then.

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We all know it is no secret and has been going on for ages but with Swansea's manager using such a brilliant analogy it is now going to dominate discussion in the media about us isn't it...

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-beat-jurgen-klopps-liverpool-14191287

 

Next two games are gonna see us face teams who will be out to frustrate us as well - could do with us handing out a couple of dickings to them to kill this talk.

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It was the sort of defeat many expect Jürgen Klopp's side to fall to, but not one we have seen too often this year

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The Independent Sport

salah-hn.jpg

 

Mohamed Salah failed to score or assist in a league game for only the sixth time this season Getty

 

A week on from victory over the champions-elect came defeat to the team sitting bottom of the Premier League table. ‘Typical Liverpool’ was trending by the full-time whistle.

For the Merseyside club's supporters, Monday night’s defeat at Swansea City was a difficult one to take, all the more disappointing because with it, Jürgen Klopp’s side missed a chance to take a firm grip on a top-four spot. 

 

A win would have extended their lead over fifth-placed Tottenham Hotspur to five points. That potentially could have been extended to eight, perhaps even 11, when Mauricio Pochettino’s side visit Anfield a week on Sunday. 

Worse still, it is not as if Liverpool played well. Klopp is usually protective of his side and complimentary about their performance after less-than-perfect results, but even he had to admit that Monday night fell some way below his standards. 

 

“The performance in the first half was not even close to what we wanted to do,” he said, in uncharacteristically critical fashion. “We had the situations but didn’t use them. I am frustrated, I am angry. But I am more frustrated about the performance than the result.”

 

‘Typical Liverpool’, then? Perhaps in the past, but in the context of this season, Monday night produced an atypical Liverpool result and should be viewed with a bit of perspective.

While this was the type of defeat many have come to expect from Klopp’s side, it was in fact the first of its kind that we have seen this season. Before it, Liverpool had lost just twice in the league - not to a pair of stragglers but against fellow members of the ‘top six’ in Manchester City and Tottenham.

 

By contrast, there have been creditable and sometimes genuinely impressive wins against the ‘bottom 14’ on the road. Maximum points were taken from trips to Leicester City, Bournemouth and Burnley – three sides who beat Liverpool on their own turf last season. West Ham United, Stoke City and Brighton and Hove Albion were all handily dispatched too.

Review the expected goals numbers from Monday night and, while Liverpool may not have played well, it is clear they created enough opportunities to win. While Swansea's three shots on goal amounted to a total of approximately 0.5 expected goals, Liverpool's 21 clocked up at 2.2.

If a ‘typical Liverpool’ does exist this season, it would have been held to a goalless stalemate at the Liberty Stadium rather than beaten. 

 

Klopp’s side have drawn more games than any other ‘top six’ team but remain among the favourites for the top four because they have been difficult to beat. While Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham and Manchester United had suffered surprise defeats already, this was Liverpool’s first.

 

The task for some time now has been to convert those draws – like the frustrating stalemates against Burnley, Everton and West Bromwich Albion at Anfield this season – into wins. If Klopp can achieve that, his side will go some way to making the step up from top-four contenders to title challengers.

 

That may or may not come in time. For now, with Manchester City’s lead seeming unassailable, Liverpool’s target must be securing a second successive Champions League qualification for the first time in just under a decade.

 

Recent history suggests they are on course to achieve that. Over the last five seasons, the fourth-placed team has finished with an average of 72 points. Liverpool’s 47 after 24 games puts them on track to finish with 74 points in total. 

 

For extra comfort and given the widening gap between the Premier League’s ‘top six’ and ‘bottom 14’, that pace may need to be hastened slightly – Arsenal, after all, missed out with 75 points last season – but the message should still be ‘so far, so good’. 

 

Liverpool currently find themselves one point better off than at the same stage last season and, remarkably, their 47 points is the same amount that Brendan Rodgers’ nearly-men had after 24 games of the 2013-14 season. 

 

The improvement is marginal and gradual but present nonetheless. For now, the defeat at the Liberty Stadium can be put down as an aberration and not the return of anything ‘typical’.

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Sorry did not realise only some people are allowed to ask questions.

Perhaps I am somewhat traditional in this regard, but questions typically have a question mark at the end. "So you do not think Jurgen is the answer then." looks not much like a question and more like an assertion.

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Perhaps I am somewhat traditional in this regard, but questions typically have a question mark at the end. "So you do not think Jurgen is the answer then." looks not much like a question and more like an assertion.

 

So is this forum the bastion of grammar then. Behave. Call me a traditionalist to but I think it presumptious to assume anything other than what a poster posts.

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So is this forum the bastion of grammar then. Behave. Call me a traditionalist to but I think it presumptious to assume anything other than what a poster posts.

If you want people to understand you, it's probably a good idea to use correct grammar. And certainly a good idea not to castigate people for interpreting your comment in the manner in which it appears.

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If you want people to understand you, it's probably a good idea to use correct grammar. And certainly a good idea not to castigate people for interpreting your comment in the manner in which it appears.

 

I find it funny people like you decide to set the standards of grammar on a web forum where there may be a mix of non English speakers some who are university educated some educated to a great or lesser degree picking up misspelling and other small error. Seems the way of this forum though.

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