VAR Thoughts?

[Barrington Womble]

3 hours ago, Trumo said:

The biggest problem with VAR remains the people tasked with using it, and the processes they are applying.

 

They definitely need to remove this 'clear and obvious' threshold for things like penalty shouts because it's the total opposite to the nth degree analysis they are applying to offside calls. Why try to be so thorough on one aspect of officiating yet give so much leeway for human error with others?

 

There's a documentary series called Air Crash Investigation, and a key factor in so many past incidents involves the captain pulling rank and the other officers not feeling empowered to question him because of his seniority and their relative inexperience. The industry has put great emphasis on something called Crew Resource Management, to allow situations in the cockpit where erratic or misinformed decision making by seniority can still be rectified.

 

The VAR process needs something like this, to avoid the scenario where Michael Oliver as VAR can overrule the on-pitch ref to give a penalty (De Ligt on Ings), yet not be questioned when he himself as ref has made the wrong call (Doku on Macca). Unfortunately, this is the complete opposite to the SWP code so beholden of PGMOL Fuhrer Howard Webb that the likelihood of improvement is zero to none. The plane will continue into the mountain or nosedive into the sea.

 

 

 

I reckon you could have just said the only thing wrong with var is everything! 

 

What frustrates me, is when FIFA pushed to introduce this, they often used 2 examples (both from international football, which probably shows where their priorities lie). The idea was to make sure refs got "the big decisions right". The first was frank lampards "goal" against Germany in WC2010. The second was that handball of Henry v Ireland (which might have been the playoffs for those finals I think).

 

The former of those problems we solved with goal line technology. I think everyone agrees this has enhanced outcomes and hasn't negatively impacted the sport. 

 

The second though has become a joke. From trying to stop blatant handballs and more specifically get the "big decisions right", we've decided the answer is review every single goal that is ever scored. Nothing is spontaneous and results in everything that is shit afterwards, from taking away goal celebrations, reinventing the handball rule, armpit offsides and this ridiculous "clear and obvious" shite. And there's no time limit on any of it, so you can sometimes score and wait 2 or 3 minutes to have the goal given. And often, despite this micromanaging, they still don't get the big decision right by somehow hiding behind "clear and obvious" or these other things like "it was a coming together" when someone has been taken out at the knees. 

 

And some people like to blame our refs, but this is shit the world over. We need to find ways of reducing these pricks interference. It's the only thing that will improve it. 

[AHA]

Why not keep VAR but not use it during the game. Ref it like it used to be but then use VAR afterwards. Get a representative from each of the clubs to sit with the refs and go through each contentious decision. Film it so the TV gets what it wants but use it to highlight where the refs are getting things wrong and right. If a certain ref is continually getting things wrong then help them improve. We get our game back, the refs get pulled up if bad but also help to get better and tv has its talking points.

Main thing is VAR stops ruining the game.

[VladimirIlyich]

6 hours ago, AHA said:

Why not keep VAR but not use it during the game. Ref it like it used to be but then use VAR afterwards. Get a representative from each of the clubs to sit with the refs and go through each contentious decision. Film it so the TV gets what it wants but use it to highlight where the refs are getting things wrong and right. If a certain ref is continually getting things wrong then help them improve. We get our game back, the refs get pulled up if bad but also help to get better and tv has its talking points.

Main thing is VAR stops ruining the game.

Again you are looking for a way around the problem rather than the problem itself. Its obvious that the problems from mass shootings in the US are guns and not the myriad of other minor issues around it focused on by politicians on the take. In that analogy VAR is 'the guns.'

[Jennings]

The whole 'not flagging' thing is a shitfest too. Rectum Protectum for incompetent officials.

 

I can't even be arsed going into the myriad of wanky shitness associated with it.

 

Fuck VAR off. Get spontaneous joy back into footy.

[sir roger]

57 minutes ago, Jennings said:

The whole 'not flagging' thing is a shitfest too. Rectum Protectum for incompetent officials.

 

I can't even be arsed going into the myriad of wanky shitness associated with it.

 

Fuck VAR off. Get spontaneous joy back into footy.

 

Mentioned on the West Ham thread that due to a linesman not flagging for a blatant offside on Bowen, Bowen himself is now out for a long period and Virgil needed treatment on the pitch following his block and was lucky to avoid injury. Its a fucking stupid rule that is there simply to help VAR not the game.

[Barrington Womble]

Has anyone seen the Newcastle goal today that had a handball in the build up? I've not seen it, but heard it's bad?

[DJLJ]

15 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Has anyone seen the Newcastle goal today that had a handball in the build up? I've not seen it, but heard it's bad?

Why did Gordon's equaliser goal stand?

The FA laws stipulate that Newcastle's equaliser would have been ruled out if Joelinton had scored immediately after the ball touched his hand - even though the contact has been deemed accidental.

But because it was Gordon that scored after a pass from Guimaraes following the ball striking Joelinton's arm, which was deemed to be in a natural position, the goal was given.

[DJLJ]

I think it follows the letter of the law, but the law is stupid. They got a massive advantage from it and I don’t think it should matter if the advantage was to the player that scored or just to someone in their team that passes it. 

[Barrington Womble]

38 minutes ago, DJLJ said:

I think it follows the letter of the law, but the law is stupid. They got a massive advantage from it and I don’t think it should matter if the advantage was to the player that scored or just to someone in their team that passes it. 

So it wasn't deliberate then? To be honest, I'm ok with that. 

[DJLJ]

26 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

So it wasn't deliberate then? To be honest, I'm ok with that. 

No, wasn’t deliberate. 

[VladimirIlyich]

33 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

So it wasn't deliberate then? To be honest, I'm ok with that. 

A referee cannot determine the 'intention' of the player therefore this handball stuff was changed due to that. Obviously it hasn't helped.

[Barrington Womble]

54 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

A referee cannot determine the 'intention' of the player therefore this handball stuff was changed due to that. Obviously it hasn't helped.

Mostly you can tell though. 

[VladimirIlyich]

On 04/01/2025 at 21:36, Barrington Womble said:

Mostly you can tell though. 

How? You can't read their mind. If it stops and advantage to the attackers or the arm is in 'an unnatural position' (not a fan of that bollocks personally) then a penalty is highly likely anyway.

[Barrington Womble]

9 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

How? You can't read their mind. If it stops and advantage to the attackers or the arm is in 'an unnatural position' (not a fan of that bollocks personally) then a penalty is highly likely anyway.

Because they move their hands to the ball! 

[Bob]

You're being very simplistic here Barry.

[Bob]

Whats this VAR trial in the league cup, or am.i better off not trying to find out?

 

I've hated var since it's inception and I can't imagine another new tweak is going to win me over.

[No2]

I still like Ange, I'm not jumping on the hate bandwagon. Wouldn't want him managing my team mind.

 

Postecoglou also bemoaned the innovation of referees announcing VAR decisions inside the stadium. “I’m really surprised at how people in this country are so easily letting the game change so much so quickly,” he said. “It’s changed more since VAR has come in since I’ve been involved than in the past 50 years. I mean, did everyone really love the announcement today? [But] this is what the people want. That’s what I keep getting told.

“The game is changing on the basis of technology, and I’m saying why isn’t anyone speaking up about it? Especially in this country. You guys think you’re custodians of the game, you’ve got a song that says ‘it’s coming home’, this is your game, and yet it takes an Aussie from the other side of the world to be the one that’s most conservative about changes.”

[Barrington Womble]

On 07/01/2025 at 11:32, Bob said:

Whats this VAR trial in the league cup, or am.i better off not trying to find out?

 

I've hated var since it's inception and I can't imagine another new tweak is going to win me over.

It was to speak to the fans to say what the VAR outcome was. Which in the stadium you couldn't hear anyway, although I've seen it on TV and it was loud and clear. But I'm not sure you need a ref to tell you "offside" when the scoreboard has already said "checking for offside". 

[VladimirIlyich]

On 07/01/2025 at 07:41, Barrington Womble said:

Because they move their hands to the ball! 

It can look that but is not as clear cut as you think.

[Mook]

6 minutes ago, No2 said:

I still like Ange, I'm not jumping on the hate bandwagon. Wouldn't want him managing my team mind.

 

Postecoglou also bemoaned the innovation of referees announcing VAR decisions inside the stadium. “I’m really surprised at how people in this country are so easily letting the game change so much so quickly,” he said. “It’s changed more since VAR has come in since I’ve been involved than in the past 50 years. I mean, did everyone really love the announcement today? [But] this is what the people want. That’s what I keep getting told.

“The game is changing on the basis of technology, and I’m saying why isn’t anyone speaking up about it? Especially in this country. You guys think you’re custodians of the game, you’ve got a song that says ‘it’s coming home’, this is your game, and yet it takes an Aussie from the other side of the world to be the one that’s most conservative about changes.”

 

I'm not a fan of his but he is 100% spot on here. People are paying a fortune to watch their sport turn into an Americanised pile of shit, without so much as a peep.

 

That announcement last night was embarrassing.

[Baresi]

13 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

It was to speak to the fans to say what the VAR outcome was. Which in the stadium you couldn't hear anyway, although I've seen it on TV and it was loud and clear. But I'm not sure you need a ref to tell you "offside" when the scoreboard has already said "checking for offside". 

If it would have been in effect last year, we may not have had the Diaz goal incorrectly chalked off as they may have realised when he made the announcement. 

[Barrington Womble]

15 minutes ago, Baresi said:

If it would have been in effect last year, we may not have had the Diaz goal incorrectly chalked off as they may have realised when he made the announcement. 

We might not. But as they're only announcing overturns (and that wasn't an overturn), I suspect it would. The decision happened last year because they're shit, corrupt cunts. I'm not really seeing any change in that regard. 

[No2]

My initial reaction last night was they let that go on purpose. He was clearly offside and they just wanted to use it. Alan Smiths reaction was concerning, no doubt he was pushing the Sky line which was how great is this.

[aws]

53 minutes ago, No2 said:

My initial reaction last night was they let that go on purpose. He was clearly offside and they just wanted to use it. Alan Smiths reaction was concerning, no doubt he was pushing the Sky line which was how great is this.

It just added another 30 seconds of delay,  

[Bob]

2 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

It was to speak to the fans to say what the VAR outcome was. Which in the stadium you couldn't hear anyway, although I've seen it on TV and it was loud and clear. But I'm not sure you need a ref to tell you "offside" when the scoreboard has already said "checking for offside". 

It was dreadful. The women's euros or world cup had it and it was ridiculous then. 

 

Cricket and rugby both have it right and football has it completely wrong.

 

The bit we would benefit from hearing is the justification and deliberation of what they are looking at.

 

As you say, the outcome is evident.

 

If were going to have to hear from these pricks, let's hear why the obvious foul in the box in the last minute is being ignored, not hear the decision of something which is pretty bloody obvious after the fact.