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VAR Thoughts?


Lee909
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15 minutes ago, Trumo said:

The Newcastle player who was Schumacher'd by the Villa keeper wasn't awarded a penalty because he was judged to be offside after a VAR check. I know they've said they've changed their approach this season so that the linesmen can raise their flag if there is a goalscoring opportunity for a player with is clearly offside, but had that not been a potential goalscoring opportunity and he'd been offside, played the ball in and it was cleared/blocked behind by a defender, a corner would have been given, because the officials are supposed to let play go on and then do the VAR check following a break in play.

 

 

How wasn't that a red card? It was a fucking disgraceful challenge. 

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5 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

How wasn't that a red card? It was a fucking disgraceful challenge. 

It's an interesting one. He gets the yellow because a penalty's been given, and they no longer give a pen and a red card. However, as soon as it's offside, and no pen, then logic would dictate a red should be shown.

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8 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

It's an interesting one. He gets the yellow because a penalty's been given, and they no longer give a pen and a red card. However, as soon as it's offside, and no pen, then logic would dictate a red should be shown.

That no longer red and a pen though is about being the last man and only applies if you make a genuine attempt for the ball. That challenge was just a red because it was dangerous and he had no intention of playing the ball. If a defender makes that challenge people would be asking for the 3 game ban to be extended. 

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8 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

It's an interesting one. He gets the yellow because a penalty's been given, and they no longer give a pen and a red card. However, as soon as it's offside, and no pen, then logic would dictate a red should be shown.

Its all a load of nonsense,yet again. The official should flag,or not,and that's the end of it. I can accept shit decisions made by officials in the moment but can't abide fifteen replays to decide one way or the other and then still be no better than the naked eye. Fuckin hate this shit and I'm hardly in love with modern football as it is.

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1 hour ago, Brownie said:

Mo looked offside to me so I have no problem with it. If it looks offside to the naked eye and it’s given then that’s fine. What you don’t want is when it looks onside to the naked eye but then the lines make it offside; that’s just no good for anyone.

I have no problem with that approach if it's applied consistently, but already it's not.  Jesus looked offside to the naked eye in the build up to City's first goal yesterday but it was marginal so they didn't get the ruler out, he was given the advantage.

Fernandes last week looked comfortably offside to the naked eye but they drew one line off the defender which demonstrated it was very close so gave Fernandes the advantage.  With Salah yesterday the two lines were back with the broken line drawn from Salah's shoulder/arm of the shirt.

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12 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

That no longer red and a pen though is about being the last man and only applies if you make a genuine attempt for the ball. That challenge was just a red because it was dangerous and he had no intention of playing the ball. If a defender makes that challenge people would be asking for the 3 game ban to be extended. 

Fair point. I think because keepers use their entire bodies to make contact with the ball, when they mistime and bodyslam someone it's more easily deemed a yellow. Or, in Pickford's case, nothing. Still, an odd one.

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4 hours ago, CapeRed said:

And Fernandes last week?

Not seen it, but been told it looked level, so I’m ok with that.

 

Mo didn’t look level, he looked “just off” so it’s ok. Shame but I’m fine with it.

 

those ridiculous offsides (the ones affecting us and the ones that didn’t) wound me up as much as anyone - I want a player that looks level to be inside - but offside still exists and can exist for close ones without needing to be upset by it.

 

id want that one yesterday disallowing if it’s against us next week. Wouldn’t you?

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2 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Not seen it, but been told it looked level, so I’m ok with that.

 

Mo didn’t look level, he looked “just off” so it’s ok. Shame but I’m fine with it.

 

those ridiculous offsides (the ones affecting us and the ones that didn’t) wound me up as much as anyone - I want a player that looks level to be inside - but offside still exists and can exist for close ones without needing to be upset by it.

 

id want that one yesterday disallowing if it’s against us next week. Wouldn’t you?

Personally I'd prefer the linesman just made a call and it lands the way it lands. Before all this started, the linos got most right (97% I believe), that seems fair enough to me. 

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2 hours ago, Moo said:

I have no problem with that approach if it's applied consistently, but already it's not.  Jesus looked offside to the naked eye in the build up to City's first goal yesterday but it was marginal so they didn't get the ruler out, he was given the advantage.

Fernandes last week looked comfortably offside to the naked eye but they drew one line off the defender which demonstrated it was very close so gave Fernandes the advantage.  With Salah yesterday the two lines were back with the broken line drawn from Salah's shoulder/arm of the shirt.

I’m pretty sure you’re misunderstanding the process here. There’s no difference in the application of the offside law between the one for mo and the one last week for Fernandes, they just now only show the two sets of lines it if it’s deemed offside. If it’s onside (whether clearly, or whether the lines touch or overlap) they just show a single green line instead now.

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Just now, Barrington Womble said:

Personally I'd prefer the linesman just made a call and it lands the way it lands. Before all this started, the linos got most right (97% I believe), that seems fair enough to me. 

Absolutely agree - with you on that 100% - but we’re not gonna get back there, so might as well be pleased they’ve made it a bit better than the shit it was last year.

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11 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Absolutely agree - with you on that 100% - but we’re not gonna get back there, so might as well be pleased they’ve made it a bit better than the shit it was last year.

Yeah, it's better. The new line should probably be bigger. I think we only think Salah looked off yesterday in the context of the shit show we've been watching. 2 years ago, we'd have all said that was level and on. Honestly I want goals like that yesterday to stand, for or against us. 

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19 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

I’m pretty sure you’re misunderstanding the process here. There’s no difference in the application of the offside law between the one for mo and the one last week for Fernandes, they just now only show the two sets of lines it if it’s deemed offside. If it’s onside (whether clearly, or whether the lines touch or overlap) they just show a single green line instead now.

Yes and no.  I wondered that last week after the Fernandes decision about the single line but hadn't recalled that mentioned in the clarifications and interviews about the new process. And I've not been able to find anything official since.  So again, this leaves things open to abuse and is an inconsistency in itself.  Show us both lines no matter what, so we can see them overlapping (or not) then you have a clear, transparent, and consistent approach.

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43 minutes ago, Moo said:

Yes and no.  I wondered that last week after the Fernandes decision about the single line but hadn't recalled that mentioned in the clarifications and interviews about the new process. And I've not been able to find anything official since.  So again, this leaves things open to abuse and is an inconsistency in itself.  Show us both lines no matter what, so we can see them overlapping (or not) then you have a clear, transparent, and consistent approach.

I believe they're also no longer going to show where they draw the lines from, which imo was the most debatable part of the whole process. 

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1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

Yeah, it's better. The new line should probably be bigger. I think we only think Salah looked off yesterday in the context of the shit show we've been watching. 2 years ago, we'd have all said that was level and on. Honestly I want goals like that yesterday to stand, for or against us. 

I think pre-var that one yesterday would’ve had some people saying he was level/on but most would’ve said he was just off.

 

The sort where if flagged you’d see the image and go “yeah, tight but” and if not you’d say “got away with one” but neither decision would’ve caused uproar.

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1 hour ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Not seen it, but been told it looked level, so I’m ok with that.

 

Mo didn’t look level, he looked “just off” so it’s ok. Shame but I’m fine with it.

 

those ridiculous offsides (the ones affecting us and the ones that didn’t) wound me up as much as anyone - I want a player that looks level to be inside - but offside still exists and can exist for close ones without needing to be upset by it.

 

id want that one yesterday disallowing if it’s against us next week. Wouldn’t you?

 

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26 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I'd love to say I am surprised,but I'm not at all.

Me either.

Still pisses me off though, a massive wasted opportunity to re-set, to say we know we've been shit but we're going to do it better from now on and get everyone onboard. You only get so many chances to do that, maybe even just one, before people get cynical and eventually worn down by the shit show.  The inconsistency is already evident, and that Newcastle match yesterday was like the worst of last season.  Still, there's time to tweak it and sort it out behind closed doors but I have no confidence in these utter fuckwits.

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7 minutes ago, Moo said:

Me either.

Still pisses me off though, a massive wasted opportunity to re-set, to say we know we've been shit but we're going to do it better from now on and get everyone onboard. You only get so many chances to do that, maybe even just one, before people get cynical and eventually worn down by the shit show.  The inconsistency is already evident, and that Newcastle match yesterday was like the worst of last season.  Still, there's time to tweak it and sort it out behind closed doors but I have no confidence in these utter fuckwits.

It will always be inconsistent though while there's any level of subjectivity - that was true with and without VAR. Personally I don't see the issue with the pen. He was pulling his shirt and it was pretty clear he was. It might have been six of one and half a dozen of the other, but that was less clear imo. If that had been one of our players held we'd be screaming for a pen. 

 

I'm not terrifically clear about what they're doing with the offsides, but even they seem better. 

 

Personally I'd just fuck it all off, but I think we're stuck with it. It's felt better so far for me this season and certainly less intrusive than it was. 

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3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

It will always be inconsistent though while there's any level of subjectivity - that was true with and without VAR. Personally I don't see the issue with the pen. He was pulling his shirt and it was pretty clear he was. It might have been six of one and half a dozen of the other, but that was less clear imo. If that had been one of our players held we'd be screaming for a pen. 

 

I'm not terrifically clear about what they're doing with the offsides, but even they seem better. 

 

Personally I'd just fuck it all off, but I think we're stuck with it. It's felt better so far for me this season and certainly less intrusive than it was. 

Give it a few weeks Baz and you will be as unconvinced as I am.

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I had a thought about the crappy offside lines. You know how they can show replays with those 360 degree cameras now? They can pause the replay and then you see the camera angle swing around to the other side of the pitch and zoom in or whatever. Couldn’t that be used to check a marginal offside? If you’re looking at a replay right in line with the players there’s no need to be drawing wonky lines whatsoever. The ‘line’ need only be 1cm thick, looking across the pitch as if the camera is the linesman. 
 

Maybe the tech is not quite there yet. 

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