VAR Thoughts?

[dave u]

It's only the right decision if you see it as deliberate handball. Otherwise it's the wrong decision according to the law that Frode posted.

 

Bobby wanted to control on his chest. The only reason he couldn't do that was a) he was being fouled, and b) Dier elbowed the ball away from Bobby's chest and onto his arm.

 

So clearly not deliberate, and clearly not the right decision.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

I don't think it was deliberate, but I can see why it was given. Any time the ball is heading away from a player, strikes an arm coming towards it, then falls into their close control it's a fair shout to be handball.

 

Thought VAR had a reasonable game really. Better than the lino that flagged Mo offside when he was clearly on. 

[rubble-rouser]

1 minute ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

I don't think it was deliberate, but I can see why it was given. Any time the ball is heading away from a player, strikes an arm coming towards it, then falls into their close control it's a fair shout to be handball.

 

Thought VAR had a reasonable game really. Better than the lino that flagged Mo offside when he was clearly on. 

I think this is right. The key point was the movement of Bobby’s arm towards the ball which was instinctive but arguably deliberate. I think that gives the ref very little option after seeing the replay. 

[dave u]

Ordinarily yeah, but it only hits his arm because it was knocked onto it by the arm of the defender (who was also fouling him).

 

They gave Spurs the free-kick!!!

 

Just because VAR got a clear offside decision correct doesn't equate to a good game for me.

 

Agree on that lino, he did us out of a corner there and it wasn't even a difficult decision. Kept his flag down for Son but flagged for that?? Shite.

[rubble-rouser]

2 minutes ago, dave u said:

Ordinarily yeah, but it only hits his arm because it was knocked onto it by the arm of the defender (who was also fouling him).

 

They gave Spurs the free-kick!!!

 

Just because VAR got a clear offside decision correct doesn't equate to a good game for me.

 

Agree on that lino, he did us out of a corner there and it wasn't even a difficult decision. Kept his flag down for Son but flagged for that?? Shite.

I think the freekick has to go their way because VAR can only rule on goals and red cards. The ruling on the goal leads to a Freekick to Spurs and I don’t think VAR then has jurisdiction to overturn the non-freekick to us as it didn’t lead to a goal. 
 

Unless you argue that the push makes Bobby put his arm out, I don’t think it makes a massive difference.

 

Overall though, how Shiite is VAR? I didn’t celebrate our first because I thought Mané was offside, and I was jumping around the living room for Mo’s disallowed goal.

[Jennings]

7 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

... Any time the ball is heading away from a player, strikes an arm coming towards it, then falls into their close control it's a fair shout to be handball.

 

I am not seeing things this way, mate.

It's not  a fair shout at all. It is just the way refs choose to call it these days. And because refs call it that way then people accept it. 

 

Most cases of handball I see nowadays are not deliberate attempts to gain an advantage with the arm. Ballspeed. Distance travelled. Body position. Players jostled. Just some of the factors that are getting ignored.

 

Terrible call that last night. One of the worst I have seen.

 

 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

26 minutes ago, Jennings said:

I am not seeing things this way, mate.

It's not  a fair shout at all. It is just the way refs choose to call it these days. And because refs call it that way then people accept it. 

 

Most cases of handball I see nowadays are not deliberate attempts to gain an advantage with the arm. Ballspeed. Distance travelled. Body position. Players jostled. Just some of the factors that are getting ignored.

 

Terrible call that last night. One of the worst I have seen.

 

 

That's fair enough. I guess it's subjective, as proving intention is nigh on impossible. It's why they fucked up the rule by trying to make it objective and simplified, all about contact and body shapes, and there were so many ridiculous decisions earlier in the season, like penalties given against players looking the other way and having it brush their elbow. Now we seem to reverted to giving refs more leeway.

 

For every Hand of God or Henry type sly nudge there are 99 that'll be given that could be debated. I agree most aren't deliberate, and Firmino's wasn't, but there are rules and then there are the norms of the game. I think the latter tends to make Firmino's arm movement towards the ball an understandable call, and consistent with historical handball. I'd be livid if that was Kane against us and it was allowed to stand.

 

In a similar vein, the rules say Rodri wasn't offside, VAR agreed according to the letter of the law, but we all know according to the norms of the game we've all grown up with, and subjectively viewing advantages gained, that he was off. Handball should always be subjective, and as such we'll always argue about it.

[DaveT]

1. The fact that he didn’t give a foul against Dier shows Atkinson is an utter cunt who gives us nothing 

2. The fact that he didn’t spot the handball shows what a shit ref he is

3. The fact that he then ruled out the goal in contradiction of what the rules now actually say confirms that he’s a bent cunt who goes out of his way to fuck us over

 

Thr Lino flagging Mo offside when it is at worst marginal is highly dubious too

[dave u]

1 hour ago, rubble-rouser said:

I think the freekick has to go their way because VAR can only rule on goals and red cards. The ruling on the goal leads to a Freekick to Spurs and I don’t think VAR then has jurisdiction to overturn the non-freekick to us as it didn’t lead to a goal. 
 

Unless you argue that the push makes Bobby put his arm out, I don’t think it makes a massive difference.

 

Overall though, how Shiite is VAR? I didn’t celebrate our first because I thought Mané was offside, and I was jumping around the living room for Mo’s disallowed goal.

 

Agree that VAR can only rule on goals and red cards, but Atkinson went to the screen so the call is then his. He could have given us the free-kick.

[Jennings]

He very nearly walked away from the screen before seeing the angle that showed the close up of both handballs. He actually turned to leave - his bias already confirmed.

[an tha]

These VAR rsviews tend to lead to a blindness where they focus on one thing and one thing only and then 'forget' about anything else that has happened around an incident.

[No2]

3 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Agree that VAR can only rule on goals and red cards, but Atkinson went to the screen so the call is then his. He could have given us the free-kick.

He couldn't award us a free, the reason the goal was disallowed was because of a handball offence by us. That was the last offence and they can't go back beyond that.

[VladimirIlyich]

The length of time taken to come to a decision over VAR incidents is farcical and pure show for television viewers. If there were crowds in grounds there would be more pressure to hurry the fuck up too. Its all a load of unworkable shite.

[Barrington Womble]

16 hours ago, skaro said:

 

Officials could see our form was perhaps returning, and quickly decided it was time to return to pre-Christmas Liverpool VAR rulings?

 

 

The only reason VAR stopped ruling out goals for us since Christmas is we stopped scoring them, so there was none to rule out. As soon as we started bagging again, normal service was resumed. 

[rubble-rouser]

12 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

The length of time taken to come to a decision over VAR incidents is farcical and pure show for television viewers. If there were crowds in grounds there would be more pressure to hurry the fuck up too. Its all a load of unworkable shite.

Can you imagine the pressure Atkinson would have been under yesterday when he’s looking at the screen 2 minutes after the incident. You’ll have spurs fans looking at it on their phones going absolutely apeshit and up in his face. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

20 hours ago, dave u said:

It's only the right decision if you see it as deliberate handball. Otherwise it's the wrong decision according to the law that Frode posted.

 

Bobby wanted to control on his chest. The only reason he couldn't do that was a) he was being fouled, and b) Dier elbowed the ball away from Bobby's chest and onto his arm.

 

So clearly not deliberate, and clearly not the right decision.

Yeah, not only that but it seems ridiculous to bring it back that far for something like that. If he punched it across the line, everyone is patting VAR on the back for overturning an error. As it stands, it feels like it’s a tinkering tool to fuck with the outcome of matches. ‘Let’s see if we can spot something, anything, to fuck with this decision’. VAR. Clear and obvious. The implementation is fucking grim and it’s ruining football. 
 

Also, why aren’t these refs clued up and mic’ed up? If you hear the ref saying what he is thinking whilst watching it, and if he has actually read the rules, it’s easy to spot mistakes and have accountability in order to fix the errors. It’s an absolute shit show. 

[Trumo]

9 minutes ago, Numero said:

Yeah, not only that but it seems ridiculous to bring it back that far for something like that. If he punched it across the line, everyone is patting VAR on the back for overturning an error. As it stands, it feels like it’s a tinkering tool to fuck with the outcome of matches. ‘Let’s see if we can spot something, anything, to fuck with this decision’. VAR. Clear and obvious. The implementation is fucking grim and it’s ruining football. 
 

Also, why aren’t these refs clued up and mic’ed up? If you hear the ref saying what he is thinking whilst watching it, and if he has actually read the rules, it’s easy to spot mistakes and have accountability in order to fix the errors. It’s an absolute shit show. 

 

You've answered your own question there.

[ZonkoVille77]

[Bobby Hundreds]

Brought in to clear up decisions! its made it far far worse and to be honest even more dishonest because blame is shifted and rules ambiguous. Get fucking rid of it. Let the responsibility lie on the officials on the pitch and the accountability afterwards lay with them.

 

How anyone can think this and all its little side rules havent made the sport worse I dont know. Its a shit show.

[an tha]

3 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Brought in to clear up decisions! its made it far far worse and to be honest even more dishonest because blame is shifted and rules ambiguous. Get fucking rid of it. Let the responsibility lie on the officials on the pitch and the accountability afterwards lay with them.

 

How anyone can think this and all its little side rules havent made the sport worse I dont know. Its a shit show.

The worst part is that it has largely taken away the joy of the very best part of the game - scoring a goal - now instead of that release of spontaneous joy/relief etc, I find myself holding back waiting for the toenail offside 10 passes back....

 

Shite.

[Barrington Womble]

4 minutes ago, an tha said:

The worst part is that it has largely taken away the joy of the very best part of the game - scoring a goal - now instead of that release of spontaneous joy/relief etc, I find myself holding back waiting for the toenail offside 10 passes back....

 

Shite.

I couldn't even enjoy our 1st league goal for a.month the other night. 

[Code]

On 29/01/2021 at 16:54, Jennings said:

He very nearly walked away from the screen before seeing the angle that showed the close up of both handballs. He actually turned to leave - his bias already confirmed.

Yes that was shocking stuff.

[Jennings]

Just wow!

 

 

[Red Shift]

On 30/01/2021 at 03:07, dave u said:

Ordinarily yeah, but it only hits his arm because it was knocked onto it by the arm of the defender (who was also fouling him).

 

They gave Spurs the free-kick!!!

 

Just because VAR got a clear offside decision correct doesn't equate to a good game for me.

 

Agree on that lino, he did us out of a corner there and it wasn't even a difficult decision. Kept his flag down for Son but flagged for that?? Shite.

Exactly. The arm of the defender wrapped around Bobby in a non contact sport.

[VladimirIlyich]

VAR strikes again! Danny Ings arm was 3 inches offside. Fuckin ridiculous.