VAR Thoughts?

[Preston Red 339]

That penalty was right out of the Harry Kane school of shithousery. 

 

Dangle the leg for contact and hit the deck like you've been shot. Clever play for English players, dirty cheating diving bastards for foreign players (depending on who you play for).

 

You would think that with VAR, the ref would see that given another ref is reviewing this. It should be a yellow for simulation because it sure as hell isn't a conscious effort by the keeper/defender to bring a player down, they're genuinely going for the ball.

 

The whole PGMOL needs a shake up but with a generation of incompetency behind them, how can they possibly change it?

[Barrington Womble 8,955]

35 minutes ago, Preston Red said:

That penalty was right out of the Harry Kane school of shithousery. 

 

Dangle the leg for contact and hit the deck like you've been shot. Clever play for English players, dirty cheating diving bastards for foreign players (depending on who you play for).

 

You would think that with VAR, the ref would see that given another ref is reviewing this. It should be a yellow for simulation because it sure as hell isn't a conscious effort by the keeper/defender to bring a player down, they're genuinely going for the ball.

 

The whole PGMOL needs a shake up but with a generation of incompetency behind them, how can they possibly change it?

I don't understand this point of view at all. The keeper came out, threw himself to the floor and didn't get to the ball. Barnes is not obligated to get out of the way and I don't really understand why anyone would think he would - he's done as every single player in the league would do. If we'd have been awarded that pen and VAR wiped it off, everyone would have gone absolutely mental - and rightly too, because it's a pen. 

 

Once you go to ground in the box and don't make the ball, you always risk a pen. 

[Preston Red 339]

18 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't understand this point of view at all. The keeper came out, threw himself to the floor and didn't get to the ball. Barnes is not obligated to get out of the way and I don't really understand why anyone would think he would - he's done as every single player in the league would do. If we'd have been awarded that pen and VAR wiped it off, everyone would have gone absolutely mental - and rightly too, because it's a pen. 

 

Once you go to ground in the box and don't make the ball, you always risk a pen. 

It's more the case of deliberately dropping the leg to get the contact.

[VladimirIlyich 7,572]

How can you give a penalty when the striker has put the ball in the stands before he even touches the gk?

[aws 6,803]

17 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

How can you give a penalty when the striker has put the ball in the stands before he even touches the gk?

And if you can why didn't Mane get one when he was cleared out far more recklessly just after he shot? 

[Barrington Womble 8,955]

3 hours ago, Preston Red said:

It's more the case of deliberately dropping the leg to get the contact.

That is litterally how professional football is played. Are you telling me any of our forwards wouldn't have done it? Of course they would. If you don't want a player to drop the leg in, the keeper needs either not to be on the floor or get the ball. If you're on the floor and don't get the ball, the defender will rightly ensure contact. 

[Jairzinho 23,088]

I have no issue with giving the penalty as long as Mane gets one as well. 

 

It's the complete and utter lack of consistency within the same fucking match that is so shit. 

 

We either have the shittest refs in Europe or they're bent. 

[JustTosh 337]

4 hours ago, aws said:

And if you can why didn't Mane get one when he was cleared out far more recklessly just after he shot? 

Absolutely right.

 

Instead of complaining our players should learn and adapt. No need for Mane to take that shot, just touch the ball , run after it and wait for the contact - Pen!

 

[Stickman 7,187]

13 hours ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Barnes, who had been booked, gets I volved with Fab on HT. Obviously only Fab booked.

 

Barnes deliberate handball to stop our attack.

Matip deliberate handball to stop their attack. Only one booked and it wasn't Barnes.

 

Mane gets a shot off, then taken out.

Barnes gets a shot off, then instigates contact. Only one given as a penalty 

 

It has gotten to the point were when we are only slightly fucked over we think the ref had a decent game. 

 

We just accept that any team at Anfield will be able to time waste without consequences, but we delay a goalkick for 10 seconds and get a booking. 

 

Pope finally got warned after 70 mins, then his next three kicks took at least 45 seconds, given up counting after that. No punishment, not even a token 93rd minute booking.

It will be interesting to see next time Dean referees a Utd game and the keeper is taking an age over a goal kick and we’ll see a different reaction to how he deals with it. From the first half he just didn’t look remotely arsed over how long Pope was talking nor over throw ins. 

As for handballs, in the Southampton game Wijnaldum had a goal bound shot in the second half that was charged down by the defenders arm and VAR briefly looked at it and after the game it wasn’t even mentioned on Sk yet Man City got a similar one the other night v Villa.

It’s like decisions that could be for us are just dismissed in a o what attitude yet the penalty Fulham nearly got against us and the Firmino winner v Spurs are viewed to death 

[DaveT 437]

32 minutes ago, Stickman said:

It will be interesting to see next time Dean referees a Utd game and the keeper is taking an age over a goal kick and we’ll see a different reaction to how he deals with it. From the first half he just didn’t look remotely arsed over how long Pope was talking nor over throw ins. 

As for handballs, in the Southampton game Wijnaldum had a goal bound shot in the second half that was charged down by the defenders arm and VAR briefly looked at it and after the game it wasn’t even mentioned on Sk yet Man City got a similar one the other night v Villa.

It’s like decisions that could be for us are just dismissed in a o what attitude yet the penalty Fulham nearly got against us and the Firmino winner v Spurs are viewed to death 

Thing is, Dean will react differently and nobody will mention it. One of my biggest frustrtions is the lack of any interest on the part of the media in this ongoing shitshow. ManU equalise at West Ham after the ball has visibly gone out of play by a good foot or more..... it's just 'one of those things'. City score an outrageously offside goal and it's a 'loophole'. Fernandes jumps on a defender and gets a penalty, Kane near injures a player, yet wins a penalty, Oliver admits to a colossal fuck up 3 months after the event - no-one turns a hair, Clattenburg finally admits that Ferguson execised influence over referees (and decisions) for years.. water under the bridge....and that this influence has merely 'eased'.... no reaction. This is just a sample of what's gone on this season. Yet the collective media look at each incident in isolation with a tut-tut. Presumably because, when you look at all of these fuck-ups as a whole it reveals such a colossal mess, levels of ineptitude, incompetence - or something more sinister - on a scale too big to grasp. 

Whilst the gravy train keeps rolling, none of the army of pundits, journalists and talkshow hosts who earn a good living off the back of it are going to rock the boat. 

[m0e 1,537]

11 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't understand this point of view at all. The keeper came out, threw himself to the floor and didn't get to the ball. Barnes is not obligated to get out of the way and I don't really understand why anyone would think he would - he's done as every single player in the league would do. If we'd have been awarded that pen and VAR wiped it off, everyone would have gone absolutely mental - and rightly too, because it's a pen. 

 

Once you go to ground in the box and don't make the ball, you always risk a pen. 

The issue is that the ball was chipped wide before Barnes got checked.

 

It's not complicated.

[Barrington Womble 8,955]

25 minutes ago, m0e said:

The issue is that the ball was chipped wide before Barnes got checked.

 

It's not complicated.

It doesn't matter. It's just a pen. An ability to be in control of the ball is not relevant to if something is a foul or not. 

[aws 6,803]

6 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

It doesn't matter. It's just a pen. An ability to be in control of the ball is not relevant to if something is a foul or not. 

Technically you're right but in practice pens aren't usually given when a striker has already got the shot off. Like what happened with Mane earlier in the game. It's the  inconsistency (amplified by the fact it looks that there was no contact until Barnes dropped his foot) which is being questioned rather than the fact that it could be construed as a foul if the ref chose to do bo. 

[Barrington Womble 8,955]

7 minutes ago, aws said:

Technically you're right but in practice pens aren't usually given when a striker has already got the shot off. Like what happened with Mane earlier in the game. It's the  inconsistency (amplified by the fact it looks that there was no contact until Barnes dropped his foot) which is being questioned rather than the fact that it could be construed as a foul if the ref chose to do bo. 

Maybe I was more pissed than I thought, as I didn't think he got a shot off? I don't dispute there are inconsistencies. But as I made the point earlier, if we'd been given that pen and VAR wiped it away, everyone would have gone fucking mental - and rightly too. So for me, I agree with Deane and I think that is a pen. However, I'm aware sometimes they're not given. But I don't see why anyone thinks VAR should overrule in that situation.

 

VAR has hurt us countless times this season and will probably continue to do so, I just don't think last night was one of those occasions. That is a pen 9 times out of 10 and it certainly isn't a clear and obvious error even if you're the fella who thinks it's not. 

 

[aws 6,803]

He did get a shot off but I agree that VAR was not to blame. There was a clumsy challenge and Dean was entitled to see it as a foul although I  think he might not have done if he had a clear view. So you can't call it a clear and obvious error.

 

But it was definitely inconsistent with the earlier Mane incident which was more dangerous than clumsy in virtually identical circumstances.  

[Barrington Womble 8,955]

5 minutes ago, aws said:

He did get a shot off but I agree that VAR was not to blame. There was a clumsy challenge and Dean was entitled to see it as a foul although I  think he might not have done if he had a clear view. So you can't call it a clear and obvious error.

 

But it was definitely inconsistent with the earlier Mane incident which was more dangerous than clumsy in virtually identical circumstances.  

As I mentioned earlier, I don't remember the mane one, which is probably down to being pissed or getting another can! 

[VladimirIlyich 7,572]

1 hour ago, aws said:

He did get a shot off but I agree that VAR was not to blame. There was a clumsy challenge and Dean was entitled to see it as a foul although I  think he might not have done if he had a clear view. So you can't call it a clear and obvious error.

 

But it was definitely inconsistent with the earlier Mane incident which was more dangerous than clumsy in virtually identical circumstances.  

I don't recall exactly the sequence but if the ball was out of play when it happened it can't be a penalty. I dont think it was but I dont remember clearly. The player obviously left his foot in to initiate contact with the keeper but thats been going on forever.

[Shooter in the Motor 7,687]

7 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I don't recall exactly the sequence but if the ball was out of play when it happened it can't be a penalty. I dont think it was but I dont remember clearly. The player obviously left his foot in to initiate contact with the keeper but thats been going on forever.

The Mané shot and tackle were virtually at the same time, the tackle made the shot harder to make. If that was United, that would have been a penalty.

[Stickman 7,187]

I didn’t think it was a pen. But as usual because it’s us it barely gets a mention that it could have been anything different 

 

There I’ve said it 

[Scooby Dudek 1,804]

On 22/01/2021 at 22:02, Barrington Womble said:

As I mentioned earlier, I don't remember the mane one, which is probably down to being pissed or getting another can! 

Another reason may be that VAR took about a millisecond to check it and it was never mentioned again.

This is the issue for me, taking a good 5 minutes looking for contact in super slow motion, penalty at Brighton and non penalty at Fulham. Yet a defender goes straight through player and they take a passing glance at it.

[coachpotato 463]

On 22/01/2021 at 23:10, VladimirIlyich said:

The player obviously left his foot in to initiate contact with the keeper but thats been going on forever.

I think this is the important point.

Ashley Young was noted for knocking the ball past a player, going into a dive and “initiating contact” and got away with it for ages. He wasn’t, and isn’t, the only one.

It was obvious from the replays that Barnes pushed his foot down onto Allison to get, or exaggerate, contact and it was, arguably, the only contact that was made.

If exaggeration is the case, or whenever contact is initiated, it shouldn’t be a penalty in my eyes.

The problem is whoever is making the decision through VAR will have their own definition of what is deliberate contact or not.
And we know how that has gone in the recent past.

 

[Barrington Womble 8,955]

9 hours ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Another reason may be that VAR took about a millisecond to check it and it was never mentioned again.

This is the issue for me, taking a good 5 minutes looking for contact in super slow motion, penalty at Brighton and non penalty at Fulham. Yet a defender goes straight through player and they take a passing glance at it.

Do you not think VAR seems to have changed a bit since then though - although to be fair it could be that I'm only watch our games live. 

[VladimirIlyich 7,572]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

Do you not think VAR seems to have changed a bit since then though - although to be fair it could be that I'm only watch our games live. 

Nah,it still designed to fuck Liverpool over.

[skend04 2,199]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12199339/referees-told-to-alter-offside-decisions-after-controversy-in-man-city-vs-aston-villa-game

 

Offside rule altered by the FA. I think I'm going to bin the remainder of the season off, this is just farcical. Handballs, offsides, yellow cards, red cards, the whole shebang is fucked and the best the authorities can do alter a rule until it too becomes unworkable due to the sheer incompetence of the PGMOL.

[Trumo 14,184]

They need to stick to one set of rules for the entire season, so the same biases and fucked-up reasoning can be applied to any game in theory for the entire duration of the season. We know PGMOL are fucking shit, but how is it fair if a goal or an offside or a red card that was being allowed/disallowed/given/not given earlier in the season is now being decided vice versa?