VAR Thoughts?

[rubble-rouser 2,158]

1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

Carragher reported the Brighton on last week the VAR told the ref "that's a pen, you need to look at the monitor". 

Unbelievable. 
 

Like I say, if there is a simple protocol in which the first question is, ‘did you see the incident?’ that would lead to a presumption in favour of staying with the on-field decision.

[Barrington Womble 8,510]

11 hours ago, rubble-rouser said:

Unbelievable. 
 

Like I say, if there is a simple protocol in which the first question is, ‘did you see the incident?’ that would lead to a presumption in favour of staying with the on-field decision.

It comes back to that forensically looking for things. If he saw the incident (which iirc not only did he, he had a good view), that should be the end of it. 

[aws 6,634]

21 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

It comes back to that forensically looking for things. If he saw the incident (which iirc not only did he, he had a good view), that should be the end of it. 

The VAR ref should ask him the question before looking at any replays so there's no implication that he might have missed something. If the ref is happy, play on. 

[Barrington Womble 8,510]

3 minutes ago, aws said:

The VAR ref should ask him the question before looking at any replays so there's no implication that he might have missed something. If the ref is happy, play on. 

This gets back to what I keep saying though, a challenge system works best. They don't need to re-ref anything. All the teams have iPads watching the camera view in real time. Just give them the chance to appeal. If they waste that chance, tough shit. The only exceptions I'd make to that are red card offences (violent conduct etc, not last man or 2nd yellow) and goal line technology. 

[aws 6,634]

A challenge system would be far better than the current shit-fest. But you'd still have to change the crazy handball rules back to what they were and get rid of the offside microscope. 

[Barrington Womble 8,510]

47 minutes ago, aws said:

A challenge system would be far better than the current shit-fest. But you'd still have to change the crazy handball rules back to what they were and get rid of the offside microscope. 

Of course. But we wouldn't be hurt as much by those poor laws because if you only get one review, how likely are you to waste it on a borderline offside? 

 

The whole handball thing does need looking at, the rule is fucking nuts (and even contrived to make offside worse), but it's amplified by forensically going back to every incident the ref doesn't give. Also, I think a lot of the shit VAR gets blamed for is an issue with the handball law and there's more chance that will be addressed than them stopping VAR. 

 

Bottom line for me is the less we can have VAR involvement, the better. 

 

[rubble-rouser 2,158]

One of the few things that cricket administrators have ever got right was the introduction of DRS.

[Barrington Womble 8,510]

8 minutes ago, rubble-rouser said:

One of the few things that cricket administrators have ever got right was the introduction of DRS.

Yeah, it works well. But to be fair it's a different game. 

[rubble-rouser 2,158]

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Yeah, it works well. But to be fair it's a different game. 

Aye, but the idea of limited reviews can be applied, and if you Tim Paine it, that’s your lookout.

[Barrington Womble 8,510]

2 hours ago, rubble-rouser said:

Aye, but the idea of limited reviews can be applied, and if you Tim Paine it, that’s your lookout.

I agree. I'd give them 1 review - which obviously they get to keep if they're right. 

[niallers 1,044]

What exactly is the difference between this and Robbo last week? This is worse and var didn't even give it a second thought. Oliver was the var cunt this time. 

[m0e 1,452]

2 hours ago, niallers said:

What exactly is the difference between this and Robbo last week? This is worse and var didn't even give it a second thought. Oliver was the var cunt this time. 

He didn't go down and then had a shot. Wellbeck went down like he'd been stabbed, and we cleared the ball straight after.

 

Surely, you see the difference?

[liverpoolsno9 1,310]

18 hours ago, aws said:

A challenge system would be far better than the current shit-fest. But you'd still have to change the crazy handball rules back to what they were and get rid of the offside microscope. 

A challenge system would never work, 

1: offside, in their eyes, is factual. On or off, makes no diff if marginal

2: After looking at slow motion replays,They think they get the decision correct and close ranks, what good is a challenge going to do? They’re not gonna reverse it, why would they? They’re not gonna admit they got it wrong after already forensically looking at it. 
Brighton last week, the ref is told he might want to look at it again, gives a pen. Klopp says he might want to relook at it, he’s not gonna change his mind just because he was challenged. Nor  should he.

[Bobby Hundreds 7,890]

I just can't believe the officials can be this incompetent, bias is playing its part. Fuck the the VAR room off they should have no contact with the ref. If the ref makes a decision and he is unsure he can go and check on the screen and it has to be at normal speed. Preferably just fuck the whole thing off and return the sport to what it was. 

[Barrington Womble 8,510]

6 hours ago, liverpoolsno9 said:

A challenge system would never work, 

1: offside, in their eyes, is factual. On or off, makes no diff if marginal

2: After looking at slow motion replays,They think they get the decision correct and close ranks, what good is a challenge going to do? They’re not gonna reverse it, why would they? They’re not gonna admit they got it wrong after already forensically looking at it. 
Brighton last week, the ref is told he might want to look at it again, gives a pen. Klopp says he might want to relook at it, he’s not gonna change his mind just because he was challenged. Nor  should he.

If VAR only worked on a challenge system, offside can be the binary choice it is today. How often would someone waste their 1 challenge on a marginal offside? You call it wrong no more challenges. You don't get the chance to challenge on the basis of taking 2 mins like refs do today, you give them 20 seconds or something. 

 

And again, as for the slow motion replays, they won't be closing ranks on an already forensic analysis. Take the Brighton one. The ref saw it, said no pen. The VAR doesn't then start deciding it's a pen, he does nothing. It's injury time of the 2nd half. If Brighton have already used their challenge, tough shit they can't challenge again. If they haven't, they can use it (would they have used it? nobody on the pitch or the touchline even appealed for it, only wellbeck), but even if they do, well they might give a pen. But it's less likely than now. But what is certain if that challenge happens in the 10th minute of a game, nobody is challenging it, because if it's not awarded and you've burnt your challenge, then you can't appeal anything else later in the game. 

 

A challenge system in most cases will create the clear and obvious bar that the PGMOL have always talked about - if you get it wrong, you lose your challenge. If it's not obvious, you won't appeal unless it's the last few minutes of the game and you still have your appeal left. 

[Barrington Womble 8,510]

4 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I just can't believe the officials can be this incompetent, bias is playing its part. Fuck the the VAR room off they should have no contact with the ref. If the ref makes a decision and he is unsure he can go and check on the screen and it has to be at normal speed. Preferably just fuck the whole thing off and return the sport to what it was. 

He can't be unsure of stuff he hasn't seen. They miss stuff all the time. For me we need find a way to manage VAR and make it workable or just completely fuck it off. I'm in favour of completely fucking it off, but I'm also aware that will never happen. So we need to find ways that it doesn't kill the game, which is what it is doing now. 

[Jennings 3,173]

3 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I just can't believe the officials can be this incompetent, bias is playing its part. Fuck the the VAR room off they should have no contact with the ref. If the ref makes a decision and he is unsure he can go and check on the screen and it has to be at normal speed. Preferably just fuck the whole thing off and return the sport to what it was. 

They really are that inept. The only bias they have is to the referee - not some partisan team related conspiracy stuff - and this bias to the referee in turn contributes further to their ineptitude.

 

It ls like a spiral of shitness.

[Scooby Dudek 1,638]

10 hours ago, niallers said:

What exactly is the difference between this and Robbo last week? This is worse and var didn't even give it a second thought. Oliver was the var cunt this time. 

They even said on MOTD in commentary, if he goes down he gets a penalty, you can't criticise players for going down because they get nothing if they stay on their feet.

[belarus 1,639]

23 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Yeah, it works well. But to be fair it's a different game. 

Rugby use it amazingly too though

[Barrington Womble 8,510]

38 minutes ago, Jennings said:

They really are that inept. The only bias they have is to the referee - not some partisan team related conspiracy stuff - and this bias to the referee in turn contributes further to their ineptitude.

 

It ls like a spiral of shitness.

If you ever watch the "ref watch" on SSN on a Monday with Dermot Gallagher you can see just that and this fucker has retired! The hoops he jumps through to try and justify why some decisions are given or not is stunning and nearly every week they follow it up with the opposite situation and he'll jump through another bunch of hoops to try and justify that decision. Having him on there is pointless as all he ever tried to do is justify whatever decision the ref makes - he even did it with the VVD incident saying "the var just concentrated too much on the offside". 

[Barrington Womble 8,510]

3 minutes ago, belarus said:

Rugby use it amazingly too though

I don't watch rugby, so no real idea about that. 

[belarus 1,639]

4 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't watch rugby, so no real idea about that. 

Hang on actually - are you meaning the challenge system or the video ref in general?

[Scott_M 5,116]

13 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

If you ever watch the "ref watch" on SSN on a Monday with Dermot Gallagher you can see just that and this fucker has retired! The hoops he jumps through to try and justify why some decisions are given or not is stunning and nearly every week they follow it up with the opposite situation and he'll jump through another bunch of hoops to try and justify that decision. Having him on there is pointless as all he ever tried to do is justify whatever decision the ref makes - he even did it with the VVD incident saying "the var just concentrated too much on the offside". 

 

Him and the guy on BT are useless.

 

On Fred's head-butt the other night, he said "It's not a mistake, it's an opinion". 

 

When was the last time a coming together like that wasn't a red card?

[Scott_M 5,116]

4 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Fuck the the VAR room off they should have no contact with the ref. If the ref makes a decision and he is unsure he can go and check on the screen and it has to be at normal speed. 

 

An interesting idea. 

 

How would offside work though?

[Bobby Hundreds 7,890]

Just now, Scott_M said:

 

An interesting idea. 

 

How would offside work though?

Offside should be left alone no VAR. Leave it to the linesman id rather the decision be wrong in real time than goals chalked off after a few minutes and the dumbshit idea of him keeping his flag down.