VAR Thoughts?

[Barrington Womble 8,570]

57 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Were the decisions yesterday that illogical? I don't really think so. The Salah offside, just by the naked eye, without the shitty lines, looked correct on the first aerial replay. The pen, while not being in the spirit of the game, was still at least a 50/50 decision. Welbeck still got kicked.

 

I think it just feels like the decisions against us are piling up, but I don't really have a problem with what happened yesterday. The Pickford thing is still the most ludicrous thing that's happened this season, though and we almost deserve some kind of reparations for it, for how crazy that was.

 

I'll never get the goal celebration thing, though. I still celebrate goals in the moment. If they don't stand, oh well. I mean, I don't think it's that big a deal.

I would argue anyone who can say "if they don't stand, oh well" doesn't get football. For me while watching some individual brilliance is a nice part of the game, be that a pass, a tackle or whatever, there's nothing in sport compare to your team scoring in football. That has been taken away as far as I'm concerned and football is becoming just like every other sport, which for me provide not much more than varying degrees of a passing interest. This afternoon for example I found it more interesting watching Tyson v Roy Jones (which actually I'm not interested in) than whatever the premier league had to offer. I don't even know who's playing. In fact for the 1st time since pay TV, I am considering turning off my cable, it's pointless to me as football has been shite since this whole var thing, it just completely takes away any joy in any game. 

[VladimirIlyich 7,384]

5 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I wouldn't salvage VAR given the choice. But I accept they're not going to reverse their choice and stop using it. So a challenge system is the only reason I could see it work. I certainly wouldn't give as many as 2 per half, but I would say you don't lose your challenge if you're right. They all have iPads in the dugout, they get one look and can decide if to use their appeal. It won't solve it completely I don't think because for example if Brighton still had their challenge yesterday, they'd have still got their pen. One other alteration I would 100% make, is absolutely no decision gets made in slow motion. They can use multiple angles, but they absolutely should never get to slow it down in any circumstances, offside included. Onfield decision unless you can see clearly from a real time speed from a replay. When they have technology that is 100% accurate for offside, we'll bring it in. In the meantime, in the spirit of the law, figure it out in real-time. 

They've fixed that a bit already haven't they by pushing the 4pm kick offs on a Sunday to 4.30 and then the newly introduced game in the evening doesn't start until 7.15. It's similar on Saturday, the 5.30 is followed by an 8pm. Sky and bt fucking love it because it fills hours upon hours of programming, way more than bad onfield decisions ever did. The biggest problem they've got is people turning off. Which I've started to do now. I can't be arsed with any game other than ours and I'm not that arsed about ours anymore. I can't be the only person who thinks football has been completely ruined by VAR, for me now it's like a load of other sport which I have a passing interest in, but absolutely zero passion about. 

I wouldnt even go that far. I'd set a 5 to 10 second timer on any decision and in real time scrutiny. Beyond that things just carry on regardless. I'd scrap it overnight myself but if not then this is a compromise.

[dave u 5,889]

Bottom line here is that you can't celebrate goals anymore, and even if every decision was right (which its not) thats too big a price to pay.

 

Football without that moment of euphoria when your team scores is a waste of fucking time.

[3 Stacks 2,365]

19 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I would argue anyone who can say "if they don't stand, oh well" doesn't get football. For me while watching some individual brilliance is a nice part of the game, be that a pass, a tackle or whatever, there's nothing in sport compare to your team scoring in football. That has been taken away as far as I'm concerned and football is becoming just like every other sport, which for me provide not much more than varying degrees of a passing interest. This afternoon for example I found it more interesting watching Tyson v Roy Jones (which actually I'm not interested in) than whatever the premier league had to offer. I don't even know who's playing. In fact for the 1st time since pay TV, I am considering turning off my cable, it's pointless to me as football has been shite since this whole var thing, it just completely takes away any joy in any game. 

Even before VAR, goals were disallowed for various reasons, now it's just more prevalent. Some for valid reasons, some for dumb reasons, which is obviously a problem. I just don’t really get wound up about it. I'll still celebrate stuff in the moment. I don't get how the initial rush of something good happening in a game and the reaction to that goes away because of VAR. It doesn't. You feel bad a while after, maybe, but not during, or immediately after.

[3 Stacks 2,365]

I celebrated the Salah goal in real time, yesterday. I then saw the replay and knew it would get chalked off, but I still celebrated it when it happened. I think that's a natural reaction.

[Scott_M 5,130]

Overall, I don’t have a problem with VAR. It’s obviously frustrating that we’ve been on the wrong end of some decisions recently but I’m sure it won’t continue that way. 
 

I absolutely fucking hate the line drawing for offsides though. IMO, there are to many  variables in it making it inaccurate.

 

For example, I don’t have any issue with the Mane offside yesterday. It’s clear.

 

The Salah one is just rubbish. I hate it when that shit goes against other sides as well. They can’t 100% say when the ball leaves players feet, the parts they use for drawing lines is inconsistent. I absolutely fucking hate it. 
 

IMO, for the element that they can’t make it 100% accurate, make there be a tolerance level and anything inside the tolerance level goes with an onfield decision.

 

On other calls, personally, I thought it was a penalty yesterday. Soft, undoubtedly, but we’ve had soft ones on Salah and Mane which we all think were penalties. 
 

I do think they should stop slowing everything down in slow mo. They should only be able to view incidents at real speed and have X seconds to review it. Anything over that isn’t “clear and obvious”.

 

I’d hope, that would stop more of the while stopping the clear offsides and rank bad decisions, it would significantly reduce the forensic decisions and allow more on field decisions. 

[Scott_M 5,130]

17 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I celebrated the Salah goal in real time, yesterday. I then saw the replay and knew it would get chalked off, but I still celebrated it when it happened. I think that's a natural reaction.

So did I. From the naked eye, I don’t think you can tell that’s offside. 

 

 

or this...

 

 

and this is just the worst decision of all...

[Jennings 3,190]

Serious question. Do you trust that VAR is 100% correct for offsides?

[Scott_M 5,130]

3 minutes ago, Jennings said:

Serious question. Do you trust that VAR is 100% correct for offsides?

The examples I used above, no. 
 

I don’t think you can even tell the ball had left Firmino’s foot from in the Salah goal. 

[Tj hooker 1,824]

50 minutes ago, Jennings said:

Serious question. Do you trust that VAR is 100% correct for offsides?

No in my opinion the technology just isn't good enough to determine the exact moment the ball leaves the foot add in the stupid lines and you have a complete dogs breakfast 

[Leyton388 1,244]

Fucking hell. Wolves should have had a pen there as Troare had his foot stood on. Ref didn't give it and Var looked at it and deemed it wasn't clear and obvious so didn't over rule. No different to our one yesterday. 

 

The fuckers aren't even consistent. Its an utter farce. 

[ZonkoVille77 5,445]

It's corrupt as fuck and no one is going to convince me otherwise. There's a lot of cunts making big money off these decisions, especially refs and their families. I can't be arsed watching the PL anymore. It has been destroyed. I just about have faith in the CL and watch and enjoy that now. But overall the game is fucked and I'm just happy I've got to see us win the lot again before it's destroyed forever. 

[an tha 5,846]

The Mane one is digusting and it still narks me greatly today.

 

The Dutch League have a brilliant method of dealing with these ridiculously tight margins....it of course is far too sensible for the 'greatest league in the world' to adopt.

 

 

[Barrington Womble 8,570]

2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Even before VAR, goals were disallowed for various reasons, now it's just more prevalent. Some for valid reasons, some for dumb reasons, which is obviously a problem. I just don’t really get wound up about it. I'll still celebrate stuff in the moment. I don't get how the initial rush of something good happening in a game and the reaction to that goes away because of VAR. It doesn't. You feel bad a while after, maybe, but not during, or immediately after.

The odd goal got ruled out. But you knew immediately, even watching on tv. Now they just keep rerunning the video in the hope of finding an excuse to rule it out. A goal now is no more than an opportunity to be awarded a goal some time in the next couple of minutes. It's even worse than a penalty before. Then you got a pen, which you'd semi cheer and then get the goal and it was kind of a bit of an anti climax, in fact more relief you didn't fuck up, but at least it was real time. Now you just sit there and the only real time you know is if the cunt in stockley park asks the on field ref to look at the screen, because they always go with stockley park. It's akin to watching minute by minute updates on the internet. 

 

If you don't know the difference between now and before, I genuinely feel sorry for you, because you've never lived that moment to the maximum. 

[Barrington Womble 8,570]

42 minutes ago, an tha said:

The Mane one is digusting and it still narks me greatly today.

 

The Dutch League have a brilliant method of dealing with these ridiculously tight margins....it of course is far too sensible for the 'greatest league in the world' to adopt.

 

 

It's not as sensible as not drawing lines. 

[3 Stacks 2,365]

Just now, Barrington Womble said:

The odd goal got ruled out. But you knew immediately, even watching on tv. Now they just keep rerunning the video in the hope of finding an excuse to rule it out. A goal now is no more than an opportunity to be awarded a goal some time in the next couple of minutes. It's even worse than a penalty before. Then you got a pen, which you'd semi cheer and then get the goal and it was kind of a bit of an anti climax, in fact more relief you didn't fuck up, but at least it was real time. Now you just sit there and the only real time you know is if the cunt in stockley park asks the on field ref to look at the screen, because they always go with stockley park. It's akin to watching minute by minute updates on the internet. 

 

If you don't know the difference between now and before, I genuinely feel sorry for you, because you've never lived that moment to the maximum. 

Of course I know the difference, VAR started like a year ago. 

 

Apparently, you just don't "get" football if you aren't depressed by the fact VAR may disallow a goal. Cool.

[Numero 6,927]

2 hours ago, Jennings said:

Serious question. Do you trust that VAR is 100% correct for offsides?

No way. 

[Barrington Womble 8,570]

15 hours ago, Jennings said:

Serious question. Do you trust that VAR is 100% correct for offsides?

In what way do you mean trust? The ref marks the point on the players, so that's open to corruption, but personally I think it's a combination of incompetence and an absolute desire to find an offside. They seem to work as hard as they can to find the absolute most forward part of the attacker, while often putting the line through the middle of a defenders foot. And in terms of picking the moment when the ball has been played forward if there's doubt, they seem to pick a moment there's still doubt (as @Scott_M pointed out about the salah goal yesterday). There's not an angle that is showing the ball off firminos foot. So they can't be sure, so what do they do? They guess instead of saying "can't be sure, go with the onfield decision". There's an absolute desire for these cunts to put themselves front and centre. However, I don't believe they're on the take. 

 

Obviously after that, the system is still not infallible and depending on the camera angle, it alters the margin of error. 

 

All in all what it means is were making millimetre decisions without the solution capable of delivering it. It doesn't make it corrupt it makes it fucking stupid. So clearly nobody can trust their outcome because the mechanism to deliver it is built on subjectivity of the VAR placing the position of the players and flawed technology in both the software implementation and the video technology. 

[3 Stacks 2,365]

Why did you neg me @Barrington Womble? You're the one who is essentially patronizing me. Weird stuff from you. I just don’t get football, innit.

[an tha 5,846]

32 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

It's not as sensible as not drawing lines. 

Sensible post 

[3 Stacks 2,365]

The VAR debate is fucking weird. People get offended if you don't believe it's ruining the game in every single way. Won't find more hysterical fannies than the people crying about it ruining their emotional experience watching football.

[Barrington Womble 8,570]

1 minute ago, 3 Stacks said:

The VAR debate is fucking weird. People get offended if you don't believe it's ruining the game in every single way. Won't find more hysterical fannies than the people crying about it ruining their emotional experience watching football.

If you find the debate weird, don't take part. 

[an tha 5,846]

Harsh neg that, Barrington.

 

I was agreeing with you!

[an tha 5,846]

3 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

The VAR debate is fucking weird. People get offended if you don't believe it's ruining the game in every single way. Won't find more hysterical fannies than the people crying about it ruining their emotional experience watching football.

Seems a weird stance to take this....i know it has stopped a lot of people from feeling they can celebrate a goal for startrers....surely the biggest emotional experience in a game.

 

"But I don't have to tell you that best of all, Is when we see Liverpool sco-o-o-ore! sco-o-o-ore!".......

[3 Stacks 2,365]

9 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

If you find the debate weird, don't take part. 

The debate in how it should be used is completely legitimate. People threatening they'll stop watching football after every call they don't agree with and the likes of you that pretend that people can't celebrate anymore and that say that people who aren't straight up disturbed by this supposed loss of emotion don't get football, should probably relax. Sorry.