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VAR Thoughts?

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17 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

VAR is not the problem, incompetent officials are.

Incompetent officials are part of VAR, so VAR is the problem. 
 

take away any existence of VAR there would’ve been 3 goals and a missed pen in that game yesterday.

 

One of those goals would’ve been considered offside and the game would’ve been remembered as Brighton being a bit unlucky but failed to take their chances when on top. There would be no major outset over the one offside goal because the Salah one wouldn’t have been offside by previous definitions of “level”.

 

the “penalty” at the end wouldn’t have even made the motd highlights it was such a nonentity of an issue without officials looking for penalties.

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16 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

If you are mistaken on this basic point of fact, it's no wonder you think VAR is the problem. VAR is only supposed to be used to rectify obvious changes.

Don’t be such an arrogant prick.
 

You’re mistaken by a basic point of fact. The officials are part of VAR. VAR is not a technology, it is not a theory, it is a role performed by an official using the technology available to him.

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17 minutes ago, Jennings said:

As a spectacle, the very essence of live football has been decimated by VAR. 

Someone mentioned it before, but imagine what it would have done to the euphoria of something like Divock’s 90+6 derby goal?

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On me thing I can take a crumb of comfort from is the same crowd that demanded this shite are the ones feeling it in the pocket. That game yesterday had over 9 minutes of injury time, thats 5 more than pre VAR and this eats into advertising revenue when they have another game straight after it. Ultimately this is the reason it will be scrapped or usage dramatically reduced.

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Final whinge of this until next week...

 

I knew as soon as I saw the replay that not only was it going to be given, but that the comparison with the pen Salah won vs West Ham would inevitably follow.

 

the football punditry world called Salah a diver for that. The argument today, not that Wellbeck is a diver, but that “if you give it for Salah, you’ve got to be consistent”.

 

its bullshit. Salah was kicked and then dived to emphasise it. Wellbeck was kicked and then dived (later and more obviously). On that front they’re the same.

 

the key difference however is the context.

 

when Salah was kicked, he had full control of the ball and his body was placed between the ball and the player that kicked him. Yes he dived after he was kicked but he was still quite obviously fouled. 

 

when Wellbeck was kicked he himself swung a boot wildly at the ball, as Robertson did. He connected with the ball just about, but with such little control that he lost the ball and it ended up bouncing gently behind and away from him. Robertson kicked him but neither player had control of the ball and each only had their foot where it was because they’d swung at a ball they failed to connect with in any meaningful way.

 

not one person watching that in full speed thought it was a penalty surely, because he lost the ball and it was cleared easily.

 

that context was removed by showing the replay to the ref of the contact only.

 

however, math of the day... “got to have consistency at least” fuck off
 

 

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15 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Someone mentioned it before, but imagine what it would have done to the euphoria of something like Divock’s 90+6 derby goal?

Or his Barcelona winner? Or the Aguero last minute winner to clinch the title? You can list the most dramatic goals in football and half of them would have been reviewed by VAR

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If you re-watch something in slow motion it will not,generally,give you the same view as watching it in real time. Mike Riley is the common denominator in the lowering of refereeing standards and the mess that is VAR and expecting anything different is folly. An absolute incompetent being elevated to a position of power is so commonplace now that we overlook how easy things can be without them.

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We have no chance to know how the linesmen would have acted in these situation, im sure a few of the goals would have flagged offside, now they just wait until VAR checks it. 

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Linesman are totally pointless now and refs can't even ref the game anymore. All authority has moved from the pitch to some tosspot sat in an office drawing dodgy lines on a picture and slowing everything down to see the minimum of contact. 

 

Weve gone from a contact sport to even thr slightest contact is now a pen. 

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20 hours ago, Moo said:

I think the only way to salvage VAR now, assuming they won't get rid of it, is to introduce challenges, two per half.

Even then they'll still manage to fuck it up I'm sure but stuff won't even be looked at unless a team requests it so less fuck ups.

I wouldn't salvage VAR given the choice. But I accept they're not going to reverse their choice and stop using it. So a challenge system is the only reason I could see it work. I certainly wouldn't give as many as 2 per half, but I would say you don't lose your challenge if you're right. They all have iPads in the dugout, they get one look and can decide if to use their appeal. It won't solve it completely I don't think because for example if Brighton still had their challenge yesterday, they'd have still got their pen. One other alteration I would 100% make, is absolutely no decision gets made in slow motion. They can use multiple angles, but they absolutely should never get to slow it down in any circumstances, offside included. Onfield decision unless you can see clearly from a real time speed from a replay. When they have technology that is 100% accurate for offside, we'll bring it in. In the meantime, in the spirit of the law, figure it out in real-time. 

1 hour ago, No2 said:

On me thing I can take a crumb of comfort from is the same crowd that demanded this shite are the ones feeling it in the pocket. That game yesterday had over 9 minutes of injury time, thats 5 more than pre VAR and this eats into advertising revenue when they have another game straight after it. Ultimately this is the reason it will be scrapped or usage dramatically reduced.

They've fixed that a bit already haven't they by pushing the 4pm kick offs on a Sunday to 4.30 and then the newly introduced game in the evening doesn't start until 7.15. It's similar on Saturday, the 5.30 is followed by an 8pm. Sky and bt fucking love it because it fills hours upon hours of programming, way more than bad onfield decisions ever did. The biggest problem they've got is people turning off. Which I've started to do now. I can't be arsed with any game other than ours and I'm not that arsed about ours anymore. I can't be the only person who thinks football has been completely ruined by VAR, for me now it's like a load of other sport which I have a passing interest in, but absolutely zero passion about. 

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We’re not allowed to trust our eyes anymore, day is night and night is day. I’ve heard enough nonsense from Stockley Park and pundits alike trying to justify another dubious decision given against our lads. Maybe all big clubs feels the same way but for me this bullshit started with us in particular when Lovren touched Calvert-Lewin on the shoulder. Rather than say it was soft or heaven forbid CL dived, gobshite’s like Shearer came out with the ‘well he shouldn’t be giving the ref a decision to make’ bollocks. Might be being a bit touchy here but with us it seems all common sense and grown up analysis goes out the window for cheap shots and journalistic sneering instead.

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I'll keep saying it until someone tells me why I'm wrong.

 

If lines are fucking needed, then go with the original decision. If that means linos have to start doing their fucking jobs, then that's the way it goes.

 

I didn't need lines or different angles for Mane's goal, so that makes it a good VAR decision. Same with the Neco penalty. Clear as day, even without a replay.

 

Anything that needs a debate shouldn't be included in a review. That would also stop the refs from having to waste time going back to the screens to watch whatever fucking angle the cunt on the controls chooses, in whatever speed; having already been inadvertently influenced to change his mind.

 

In short; where debate is needed, go with the original decision. If its obvious on first look, change the decision.

 

Result? Proper "clear and obvious" and absolutely no time wasted.

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Of paramount importance for the sake of the live football, a decision needs to made in real time.

This is possible with the tech and without it.

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16 minutes ago, m0e said:

If lines are fucking needed, then go with the original decision.

Yup.

 

Would this be an improvement..."If lines are needed, it is onside."?

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You just ilwant it for off ball incidents and things clear and obvious in full time. If red cards are missed go back to them being dealt with by a panel after the game. The rise in penalties tells you players are looking for fouls. The new hand ball rules shite aswell

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46 minutes ago, Jennings said:

Yup.

 

Would this be an improvement..."If lines are needed, it is onside."?

Yes, that would basically bring it more into line with what happens in cricket. So if an LBW decision is really close they stick with the on field umpire's decision. The technology is there to eradicate howlers, which is what I thought was supposed to be the case with football as well. Not, someone's eyebrow being a quarter of a milimetre offside or watching a replay 200 times to see if there was any contact for a foul. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jennings said:

Yup.

 

Would this be an improvement..."If lines are needed, it is onside."?

Perfect 

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55 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Yes, that would basically bring it more into line with what happens in cricket. So if an LBW decision is really close they stick with the on field umpire's decision. The technology is there to eradicate howlers, which is what I thought was supposed to be the case with football as well. Not, someone's eyebrow being a quarter of a milimetre offside or watching a replay 200 times to see if there was any contact for a foul. 

 

And let's not forget, cricket had some absurd results from the earlier versions of DRS, such as them being unsure if this was hitting the stumps, to the point the batsman got a reprieve!

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It gives me hope that if even that bunch of greedy cunts who run the ICC can improve DRS as much as they have, perhaps football can still sort it out. 

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The ref is supposed to be the ultimate arbiter.  That's what the rules say. Let the VAR ref look at it no more than three times at normal speed and if he can see that there is a clear and obvious error (not just that he might have called it different) then let him ask the ref to review it at the monitor. Otherwise stick with what the arbiter of the game thought at normal speed. The starting position should be that (right or wrong) what the ref thought is right unless he clearly fucked up because he was unsighted or something. 

For offsides, let the linos flag and the ref allows the game to carry on for a few seconds but only if there is a clear and imminent goal scoring opportunity. 

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I was just thinking, wasn't there var in the champions league the season we won it, last year? 

 

I don't remember them stopping for ten minutes after every goal to check if someone was a fanny hair offside or not. 

 

I could swear that mane got given a goal against Porto that looked off but was actually got clearly onside. Or am I delusional? 

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They've just fucked VAR to death. It doesnt matter whether they show the incident to the ref in real time, slow motion or any other speed. The on pitch ref is being overruled by the VAR 'ref' and that was never the intention.

 

The implemention of VAR was supposed to be an opportunity for someone to tell the ref he should look again at an incident as there was a possible infringement he's missed.

 

What we have and now always will have is another ref looking forensically as Crouchie has said at goals, offsides and penalty challenges. They are making the decision. Only now they are saying to the on pitch ref 'You've made a mistake. Ive reviewed it and it's a pen \ foul \ handball etc. Go have a look at the monitor and you'll see Im right.'

 

I saw nearly all the tv ref's say the decision for the pen clearly showed the 'clear and obvious' test had gone or been substantially lowered. Only one cretin said clear pen.

 

Really, I dont know why Im bothered. Not even this covid stuff has shaken by love of football but this VAR shit is just shit. Why fucking bother? Games are a complete lottery, which VAR and on pitch is going to screw you over today? I may as well invest my time in watching 'Im a celebrity' and other shite on tv. It's as big a fix and offers me the same level of entertainment, fuck all, as football does right now.

 

Pre VAR, you'd be unlucky to be on the end of 2 or 3 really bad reffing decisions a season that affected the outcome of games. We've been screwed 8(?) times in the PL alone this season and we've only played 10 fucking times!

 

I dont give a fuck whether a clear injustice is done to united, everton, arsenal and the rest. An injustice is just that no matter who it is made against. You cant hide behind well yeah it's united so funny as fuck because once it's you, it's no longer funny and tribalism is a sure fire way nothing will ever get fixed.

 

Even with our chronic injury list right now, I was quietly confident we could retain the title. But with the lottery VAR has made football now, Im not sure because unlike shite decisions of yore 'equalling' themselves out over a season, VAR doesnt work like that.

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Celebrating a goal in the moment is the biggest joy in football, that's been taken away now and they've replaced it with anxiety and frustration. 

 

 

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Were the decisions yesterday that illogical? I don't really think so. The Salah offside, just by the naked eye, without the shitty lines, looked correct on the first aerial replay. The pen, while not being in the spirit of the game, was still at least a 50/50 decision. Welbeck still got kicked.

 

I think it just feels like the decisions against us are piling up, but I don't really have a problem with what happened yesterday. The Pickford thing is still the most ludicrous thing that's happened this season, though and we almost deserve some kind of reparations for it, for how crazy that was.

 

I'll never get the goal celebration thing, though. I still celebrate goals in the moment. If they don't stand, oh well. I mean, I don't think it's that big a deal.

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'objective' decisions should be left to the ref and linesmen. I'm fine with the offside VAR decisions if they are right. 

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