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Lee909

VAR Thoughts?

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Nice to see sky's expert referee Dermot's take on offside.

 

It's difficult for me to explain this. Offside is not my specialist subject and I sought guidance on this as to why it was disallowed.

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2 hours ago, No2 said:

Salah's goal on Saturday is probably only 6 or 7 inches offside but you can see it with one viewing.  If you need the science to decide it then award the goal regardless of whether the lino gave it on or off. Barrington Womble has just made a good point that they have removed level from the laws (well they haven't but they may as well have). The odds of being level now must be 1 in a million so they have made it harder to score proper goals but made it easier to score penalties by awarding them every 2 minutes and at the same time making it harder for the keeper to actually save them.

Weirdly the lines had him less offside than the naked eye did. I first I thought it was obvious but the lines had him inches off. 

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21 hours ago, DalyanPete said:

Nice to see sky's expert referee Dermot's take on offside.

 

It's difficult for me to explain this. Offside is not my specialist subject and I sought guidance on this as to why it was disallowed.

with regards which offside? the arsenal one?

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On 26/10/2020 at 10:44, dave u said:

Danny Murphy summed it up the other day when he said that VAR has taken away the one thing that has always been the most special aspect of football. Celebrating a goal. It's been ruined. Now you either celebrate and run the risk of it being cut short, or you half arse it and wait for them to tell you it's a goal, by which point the moment is gone.

 

It's just shit. I hate it. I've hated it since day one and if anything I hate it even more now. I hated it in the World Cup but the moment when I knew I could never accept it was when West Brom tonked us in the FA Cup and they couldn't celebrate two of their goals because they were worried they were going to be disallowed.

 

Even though it didn't affect us specifically, seeing what happened with West Brom's players and fans was enough for me. That could just as easily have been us or anyone else.

 

I'd rather go back to how it was with shit refs making mistakes on the field rather than shit refs fucking up even after watching a video. You can excuse the first, to a degree. Fucking up when you have access to all the replay angles you need is completely unacceptable.

 

And the level of precision they've had to bring in for offsides just because they have the technology to do it has made a mockery of it.

 

And then there's the scrutiny on whether a goalkeeper has strayed a cm off his line in trying to save a penalty. That's shit too.

 

It's fucking hard enough saving penalties and if a keeper gains the tiniest of advantages by stepping off his line a touch then good luck to him.

 

All these pricks in suits who've never played the game but are making all these shit rules are completely sucking the enjoyment out of it for everyone.

There’s a linesman able to watch this. If it’s not obvious to someone specifically watching for it, then let it go. If it is obvious, and gets called by a human being based on their eyeballs, make them retake it, although that human being better be fucking right.

 

Not one part of VAR has improved the game. It’s made some bad decisions disappear, but at too much cost, and without sufficient regularity to warrant keeping it.

 

it wont go, but it should.

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On 26/10/2020 at 16:20, Scooby Dudek said:

I think they should just draw one line on the last defender, then go with clear and obvious for on/off side. 

 

Mane last week, it is obviously onside with only the defenders line but they then somehow manage to make it off side. One straight line and it is easy to see .

.

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On 26/10/2020 at 16:20, Scooby Dudek said:

I think they should just draw one line on the last defender, then go with clear and obvious for on/off side. 

 

Mane last week, it is obviously onside with only the defenders line but they then somehow manage to make it off side. One straight line and it is easy to see .

That’s a nice simple way to look at it, and I’d be in favour of that. It allows the obviously bad calls to be corrected, like sterling vs city under Rodgers.

 

an alternative if there must be two lines would be to have them both be 3 inches thick (or the thickness of the white lines on the field, perhaps), and if they overlap at all, it’s level. That gives a tolerance to negate the freeze frame in accuracy and the inaccuracy involved in where the lines get drawn from and brings “level is onside” back into the equation. A concept we’ve been happy to accept for decades.

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On 26/10/2020 at 16:20, Scooby Dudek said:

I think they should just draw one line on the last defender, then go with clear and obvious for on/off side. 

 

Mane last week, it is obviously onside with only the defenders line but they then somehow manage to make it off side. One straight line and it is easy to see .

.

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10 minutes ago, Jennings said:

This was given onside today. 
 

the line actually goes through the attackers boot. 
 

 

BFA484F4-182E-40B0-93AA-12594CE9C028.jpeg

While the obvious comparison is to be made with Mane’s position for Hendo’s winner in the Derby, I’ve no problem with that being given onside. By my definition he’s level, so I’m ok with it.

 

Mane wasn’t level though, he was onside. Clearly onside.

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The Greenwood goal is clearly laughable incompetence by the VAR and operator.  They’ve drawn the blue line with furthest point on the defender touching the inside of the line so in other words the whole of the blue line isn’t on side it’s offside.  If Greenwood falls into any part of that blue line which he does then he’s beyond the defender.  For some reason they don’t draw the second line which they do in the premier league.  I’m not sure if that’s because the software is different and only does one line but even if it is then the person operating it should know that and the stuff I’ve just explained.  It’s absolutely crazy that this level of officiating is so fucking stupid.

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10 hours ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

While the obvious comparison is to be made with Mane’s position for Hendo’s winner in the Derby, I’ve no problem with that being given onside. By my definition he’s level, so I’m ok with it.

 

Mane wasn’t level though, he was onside. Clearly onside.

You’re ok with the line being drawn in the wrong place?

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17 hours ago, Tj hooker said:

Who controls the Var for European football is it still Stockley park ? 

This is my point though when people say the issue is our refs are crap. It's not just here, it's global. It's subjective shit where they mark the spot and allow that to dictate the software outcome. VAR is just shit. I don't really see how we change it. 

 

The other thing that annoys me with offside, is the complete and utter disregard for the spirit of the law. Offside was introduced to stop goal hanging. It was not designed to worry about microscopic parts of the body being offside. Because if it had been there's something really simple - they would never have expected the linesman to know where the player was when the ball was kicked, because in almost all cases it would be impossible to see both of those things at the same time. It's all a fucking nonsense to bring it down to the shite we see today. 

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6 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

This is my point though when people say the issue is our refs are crap. It's not just here, it's global. It's subjective shit where they mark the spot and allow that to dictate the software outcome. VAR is just shit. I don't really see how we change it. 

 

The other thing that annoys me with offside, is the complete and utter disregard for the spirit of the law. Offside was introduced to stop goal hanging. It was not designed to worry about microscopic parts of the body being offside. Because if it had been there's something really simple - they would never have expected the linesman to know where the player was when the ball was kicked, because in almost all cases it would be impossible to see both of those things at the same time. It's all a fucking nonsense to bring it down to the shite we see today. 

Spot on. The game has relied for more than a century on decisions being given instantly based on imperfect human vision and the rules have developed accordingly. When the rules for offside, handball, fouls were first invented nobody was thinking of computer lines, replays in slow motion etc. and the games is being distorted in the impossible search for the holy grail of perfection. 

If we have to have VAR, then just use it to overule fuck ups which are instantly obvious to the VAR  ref and accept that human fallibility is part of the game. If there's any doubt just go with the decision of the match officials. 

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9 hours ago, Jennings said:

You’re ok with the line being drawn in the wrong place?

I’m not sure it’s drawn in the wrong place, cause I don’t really know what the right place is anymore, but I’m ok with it being inside cause to me, looking at it, that freeze frame meets my definition of being level and I want being level to still be offside.

 

ive been watching football long enough to know what offside, onside and level (which is onside) look like without two lines. He’s level in my book. Play on.

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31 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

I’m not sure it’s drawn in the wrong place, cause I don’t really know what the right place is anymore, but I’m ok with it being inside cause to me, looking at it, that freeze frame meets my definition of being level and I want being level to still be offside.

 

ive been watching football long enough to know what offside, onside and level (which is onside) look like without two lines. He’s level in my book. Play on.

I think you're right actually. It is drawn in the right place (the defender's upper arm).

 

The problem is that Greenwood's boot is beyond that line.

 

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1 minute ago, Jennings said:

I think you're right actually. It is drawn in the right place (the defender's upper arm).

 

The problem is that Greenwood's boot is beyond that line.

 

Fucking hell my last reply was a mess. Onside not inside and then onside not offside.

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