VAR Thoughts?

[magicrat]

2 hours ago, No2 said:

He does, the correct decision is penalty and yellow card.

Exactly. The question is why VAR pressed him to backtrack on the pen . I don’t think Walker was whinging about that just the sending off . I’m not one for supporting conspiracy theories about bent officials but in this case , to quote Sherlock Holmes , when you eliminate the probable whatever remains , however improbable , must be truth . 
Sucks sagely on pipe stem and fucks off 

[Chris]

3 hours ago, No2 said:

The Ronaldo decisions where worse than Walkers. They seem to have come to the conclusion that the attackers were "looking for it", thats kind of the point of the sport, take advantage of opponents errors. Going over someone's outstretched leg is and always was a penalty.

 

The Ronaldo decisions were entirely correct. The first one he knocked it around the defender and jumped into his knee. The second he was half way down before the defender even committed to the tackle. The cheating crybaby cunt. 

[No2]

4 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

The Ronaldo decisions were entirely correct. The first one he knocked it around the defender and jumped into his knee. The second he was half way down before the defender even committed to the tackle. The cheating crybaby cunt. 

But you're allowed run into someone's leg if they leave it hanging there. Its not the duty of the forward to go the long way around just because the defender has made a stupid decision. The 2nd one he is on the way down but so has every attacker in the last 10 years, it's it's stonewall penalty. 

[Jennings]

Martin Atkinson is a terrible referee. No technology is gonna help him. He is fucking useless. Beyond help.

 

There's a number of other refs of a similar standard.

I am amazed the PL aren't doing something about it. It is shitting on their product.

[Chris]

1 hour ago, No2 said:

But you're allowed run into someone's leg if they leave it hanging there. Its not the duty of the forward to go the long way around just because the defender has made a stupid decision. The 2nd one he is on the way down but so has every attacker in the last 10 years, it's it's stonewall penalty. 

 

I'd be fucking fuming if either of those were given against us. 

 

Sounds like you're of the 'he felt the contact, he has a right to go down' school of giving someone a 80-odd percent chance of a goal because one player touched another in the penalty area.

[Barrington Womble]

19 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

I think there's a danger we misread ineptness as conspiratorial chicanery.

 

Moss thought he saw something (I hadn't heard about the push, but that'd fit), he communicates that to the VAR, who says there's no sign of it. At that point Moss has to view the replay himself, and under the new "let the game flow" leeway that challenges are being given, he decides it's not a pen.

 

The clear and obvious aspect was always about VARs overruling refs. 

the problem i have with ineptness is i don't see how 2 officials can continually keep being inept. so i can accept moss is unfit and struggles to keep up. then if as a result he is too far away, give nothing and let the VAR pick up on what you have missed rather than just fucking guess, which is what he did on Saturday. Then, somehow the VAR contrives to completely reverse this decision (all this nonsense about they look at the video themselves, they're already guided by the VAR) - it just seems too often than not there is an outcome they want and will do anything they can to get it. For what reason? I have no fucking idea, but last season when VAR was re-running every situation until it found something when it suited and then glossing over things when it didn't, screams of there are other things at play. Now it might be subconscious biases.  It might be Mike Riley has instructed them to be on the lookout for x, y or z. It could be anything other than what is should be, which is completely impartial refereeing. 

[Torvald Utne]

19 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

the problem i have with ineptness is i don't see how 2 officials can continually keep being inept. so i can accept moss is unfit and struggles to keep up. then if as a result he is too far away, give nothing and let the VAR pick up on what you have missed rather than just fucking guess, which is what he did on Saturday. Then, somehow the VAR contrives to completely reverse this decision (all this nonsense about they look at the video themselves, they're already guided by the VAR) - it just seems too often than not there is an outcome they want and will do anything they can to get it. For what reason? I have no fucking idea, but last season when VAR was re-running every situation until it found something when it suited and then glossing over things when it didn't, screams of there are other things at play. Now it might be subconscious biases.  It might be Mike Riley has instructed them to be on the lookout for x, y or z. It could be anything other than what is should be, which is completely impartial refereeing. 

Simple solution is to broadcast the conversations, or have no conversations between the ref and var, just an alert on his watch like goal line technology, go take another look and make your own mind up

[Barrington Womble]

6 minutes ago, fungus said:

Simple solution is to broadcast the conversations, or have no conversations between the ref and var, just an alert on his watch like goal line technology, go take another look and make your own mind up

Or fuck it off and if refs like moss can't keep up with play and they haven't got a var to bail them out, then they can be sacked and a younger and more in shape ref can take their place. 

[Torvald Utne]

Well that's a given, that fat fuck has no place on a football field

[TheHowieLama]

4 hours ago, No2 said:

He does, the correct decision is penalty and yellow card.

You think? He looks at the replay and decides, well, there was no push in the back - which was the red card offence but then calls a foul for the tackle instead, gives a yellow and the pen?

Not sure about that. I think he can review the incident, but he cannot change the call entirely right?

[No2]

2 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

You think? He looks at the replay and decides, well, there was no push in the back - which was the red card offence but then calls a foul for the tackle instead, gives a yellow and the pen?

Not sure about that. I think he can review the incident, but he cannot change the call entirely right?

They can change, goals, penalties and red cards so he could make the change.

[TheHowieLama]

11 minutes ago, No2 said:

They can change, goals, penalties and red cards so he could make the change.

I don't know the technicalities but if he blew the foul for a push in the back by looking at the footage and changing that foul to a trip he would be doing more than that - he would be spotting a different foul via VAR. That, by definition he missed. That sounds dicey.

[Torvald Utne]

So if walker had pulled out a knife and stabbed him unseen by the ref until he reviewed it on the monitor all he could do would be to rescind the red as not a push?

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, fungus said:

So if walker had pulled out a knife and stabbed him unseen by the ref until he reviewed it on the monitor all he could do would be to rescind the red as not a push?

Yes, unless Martin Atkinson made him aware of the stabbing in the ear. For review.

 

In which case it would say on the big screen 

 

VAR - Reviewing Stabbing

 

And, technically it would have happened after the foul so play would be dead, no pun intended.

[dockers_strike]

That walker incident looked a nailed on penalty to me and Im not saying that because it was city. Never a red card as he wasnt the last man with at least the keeper between him and goal.

 

That Dermot Gallagher was performing somersaults on Sky Sports today trying to say Moss was right to overturn both decisions on the pen and card which was funny to watch.

[Barrington Womble]

47 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I don't know the technicalities but if he blew the foul for a push in the back by looking at the footage and changing that foul to a trip he would be doing more than that - he would be spotting a different foul via VAR. That, by definition he missed. That sounds dicey.

Isn't that exactly what VAR is supposed to do, pick up on the shit the onfield referee misses? 

[TheHowieLama]

10 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Isn't that exactly what VAR is supposed to do, pick up on the shit the onfield referee misses? 

I don't know man - I cannot remember a time where VAR was reviewing a different foul than the one blown on the field.

 

They let offside play, they review all handballs, hell they review all golas - but has there been a pelanty changed to a different foul than was originally called? 

[Barrington Womble]

48 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I don't know man - I cannot remember a time where VAR was reviewing a different foul than the one blown on the field.

 

They let offside play, they review all handballs, hell they review all golas - but has there been a pelanty changed to a different foul than was originally called? 

I just thought the idea of var was to get to the correct decision. It's not like he blew the whistle between his imagined push in the back and when walker just went through him. I really can't see why they can't award it - the VAR is definitely there to give what the ref missed. 

[Razoray]

52 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I don't know man - I cannot remember a time where VAR was reviewing a different foul than the one blown on the field.

 

They let offside play, they review all handballs, hell they review all golas - but has there been a pelanty changed to a different foul than was originally called? 

They check for offensive fouls in the lead up to a goal/penalty award etc., e.g. a handball or offside so they should then be able to check for defensive fouls also. 

[Razoray]

The Ronaldo two and Walker (which I think was a pen) non pens are definitely a sign that contact inside the box, no longer equals an immediate penalty award. This is a good move for the game. Kane and Ronaldo will suffer most IMO

[TheHowieLama]

11 minutes ago, Razoray said:

They check for offensive fouls in the lead up to a goal/penalty award etc., e.g. a handball or offside so they should then be able to check for defensive fouls also. 

Yea but they are making a decision because of the gola.

 

As I said, I have no idea but I think the VAR pings the ref about his individual decision, not to review any defensive previous, or afters.

[No2]

Just seen the Walker penalty again. Jon Moss is on the half way line when City give the ball away, he's like a JCB trying to get going, the footage doesn't show where he is but I reckon he's still in the centre circle when the offence occurs. He's still 15 yards outside the box when he blows the whistle a couple of seconds later. It's not acceptable to have a referee that out of shape, he must have serious footage on his phone.

[Barrington Womble]

That tonight shows exactly why VAR should be fucked right off. That decision tonigt was a fucking disgrace. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

I'd keep VAR, but either give them a time limit or make it an appeals system, like in other sports.

 

The system was brought in to get rid of clear and obvious errors. If you can't, with the benefit of replays, tell if something is wrong in 30 seconds then it isn't that obvious.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

2 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

That tonight shows exactly why VAR should be fucked right off. That decision tonigt was a fucking disgrace. 

No. The beatiful mix of incompetence, inconsistency, bias and corruption is the problem. Not VAR.