VAR Thoughts?

[Scott_M]

23 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

The fuck ups implementing it are part of var, in fact they are the Referees which are video assisted.

 

the whole thing is failing. Over and over again.

Sorry, I don’t follow. Last night is clearly human error. Twice.

 

VARs mandate is to step in for “clear and obvious” errors. In reference to last night, that incident is nothing of the sort. 
 

The whole VAR issue is the dipshits running it. If the refs weren’t such jobsworths, VAR would be significantly better. 

 

Which if that is the point your making, I agree!

[Barrington Womble]

Decisions like this are subjective. Some of the poor decisions we see from referees are because they are drilled into making their assessment. They are clearly also educated to "back each other up" as last season VAR refused to look at loads of blatant stuff, where you assume the VAR is backing up the on field ref due to "clear and obvious". Then all the biffs on sky and motd called for "make him watch it on the screen like in other leagues". So the ref is given the angle the var wants him to see and goes on to back the vars. The bottom line is no matter which way they implement it, while the VAR is under the control of the PGMOL, they will all continue to either back each other up or interpret stupid shit in the same way because that's how they're being trained. I said at the start all VAR would be is double down on bad decisions. That's how it's played out, because our refs are complete twats and managed by the biggest twat there's maybe ever been refereeing the game. 

 

Under Mike Riley the quality of refereeing has got worse season by season. It's been exaggerate by VAR, but most of that is subjective crap, subjectively judged by his officials who are badly educated and run a system of collective support of each other. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

It's shit. Microanalysis of decisions in slow motion for me distorts the moment and decisions are so subjective and rules so vague that unless you thump a team the officials can shape results knowing every excuse can be made and justified the refs aren't blamed VAR is.  Then add the way its killed celebrations its become almost the main source of conversation. Players off side by millimetres or their arm pits others onside even though they are 12 yards off. Hand ball depending upon the the mood of the ref, justified by well "technically" or "he couldn't move fast enough"  but applied differently to almost identical situations. Id rather it just be a ref and linesman, decisions made in real time and if they make mistakes they're relegated until they earn back the right to premier league officiating. Football was better before this shit.

[Brownie]

9 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

It's shit. Microanalysis of decisions in slow motion for me distorts the moment and decisions are so subjective and rules so vague that unless you thump a team the officials can shape results knowing every excuse can be made and justified the refs aren't blamed VAR is.  Then add the way its killed celebrations its become almost the main source of conversation. Players off side by millimetres or their arm pits others onside even though they are 12 yards off. Hand ball depending upon the the mood of the ref, justified by well "technically" or "he couldn't move fast enough"  but applied differently to almost identical situations. Id rather it just be a ref and linesman, decisions made in real time and if they make mistakes they're relegated until they earn back the right to premier league officiating. Football was better before this shit.

Mike Dean asked for that one yesterday to be shown at full speed, which I thought was a good common sense approach, I don’t know why refs don’t do that for all incidents as it adds some context.

 

And then he sent him off anyway! 

[Trumo]

Have you ever seen Mike Dean and Spud from Trainspotting in the same room?

[Bob]

2 hours ago, Scott_M said:

Sorry, I don’t follow. Last night is clearly human error. Twice.

 

VARs mandate is to step in for “clear and obvious” errors. In reference to last night, that incident is nothing of the sort. 
 

The whole VAR issue is the dipshits running it. If the refs weren’t such jobsworths, VAR would be significantly better. 

 

Which if that is the point your making, I agree!

Yeah, I think we’re saying the same thing, I just get irritated every time I see a variation of “VAR isn’t the problem, it’s the people using it” or similar.
 

VAR is the combination of people (R) being assisted (A) by technology (V) so it doesn’t matter if it’s the R, the V or the A that is the cause of it being shit, as a whole it is shit.

[Scott_M]

24 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Yeah, I think we’re saying the same thing, I just get irritated every time I see a variation of “VAR isn’t the problem, it’s the people using it” or similar.
 

VAR is the combination of people (R) being assisted (A) by technology (V) so it doesn’t matter if it’s the R, the V or the A that is the cause of it being shit, as a whole it is shit.

 

Understood.

 

Yes, the principles of VAR, ie using video replays to assist a major bollock up, is simples enough. But while the referee bit is still poorly executed, the whole thing is undermined. 

 

Some rules need changing (ie offside and its ridiculous etcha-sketch) and the nonsense in the week with the Luiz and Bednarek decisions (and likely others I've forgotten) but until the right decisions, more often than not, are made by the boobs running the show, unfortunately, we're still going to have these annoying decisions.

 

Still, last night was taking the piss! Dean and Mason should be struck off for a week or two on the back of that. Unfortunately, the whichever jabroni's replace them will likely be worse.

[Frank Dacey]

Whatever we might think about Mike Dean, he is a highly experienced referee and one who is generally thought to know his own mind, a bit too well, some might say. Yet last night he looked almost apologetic when he sent Soucek off and gave me the impression that he felt he had no alternative. This suggests that his bosses frown on refs who don't ref in a certain way, but at the same time tolerate gross incompetents like Mason, Friend etc. Once again, we come back to the problem being at the top with the man who was in charge. Until Riley goes, nothing will get better.

[Barrington Womble]

4 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

It's shit. Microanalysis of decisions in slow motion for me distorts the moment and decisions are so subjective and rules so vague that unless you thump a team the officials can shape results knowing every excuse can be made and justified the refs aren't blamed VAR is.  Then add the way its killed celebrations its become almost the main source of conversation. Players off side by millimetres or their arm pits others onside even though they are 12 yards off. Hand ball depending upon the the mood of the ref, justified by well "technically" or "he couldn't move fast enough"  but applied differently to almost identical situations. Id rather it just be a ref and linesman, decisions made in real time and if they make mistakes they're relegated until they earn back the right to premier league officiating. Football was better before this shit.

I think I heard 2 players saying yesterday about VAR spoiling the celebrations, one was DCL after he scored a last second equaliser and I can't quite remember who the other was, it wasn't the same as the DCL one but it was something like "well you can't really celebrate the same now with VAR anyway". Just fucking bin it. It's stripping all of the joy out of the game. 

2 hours ago, Scott_M said:

 

Understood.

 

Yes, the principles of VAR, ie using video replays to assist a major bollock up, is simples enough. But while the referee bit is still poorly executed, the whole thing is undermined. 

 

Some rules need changing (ie offside and its ridiculous etcha-sketch) and the nonsense in the week with the Luiz and Bednarek decisions (and likely others I've forgotten) but until the right decisions, more often than not, are made by the boobs running the show, unfortunately, we're still going to have these annoying decisions.

 

Still, last night was taking the piss! Dean and Mason should be struck off for a week or two on the back of that. Unfortunately, the whichever jabroni's replace them will likely be worse.

But to strike the refs off, don't you think that would require Mike Riley to think there was a problem? For 2 refs to judge that a red after getting multiple looks at the incident, I assume they're acting on how they're being told to interpret these incidents - this mention of him having a clenched fist I think is key to the outcome. It's why they never get to correct really stupid shit with VAR (in fact the opposite, they sometimes even introduce it) because they were reffing really stupid shit before hand and they're just doubling down on it now. I reckon Mike Riley will like that outcome yesterday, all he will be thinking is all of these players, managers and fans who think he got it wrong, just don't understand the laws of the game and how they should be interpreted.

 

We see every season the difference in refereeing in domestic and European football, so it's clear the way the refs are guided plays massive part. That's not me saying the refs under uefa are better or worse, I think CL games are badly reffed too, just reffed badly in entirely different ways due to the direction they're given (not sure if that is from uefa or their national setup). The shite we're seeing this season i think comes down to the direction the refs are being given by Mike Riley. The inconsistencies are because sometimes the refs forget to be stupid twats. Every single organisation reflects it's boss. If we want to know why refereeing is so bad in this country, we should be looking at their leadership - he was an absolute cunt of a referee and it would seem he's making an even worse administrator because he's dragging referees down to his level of incompetence. 

[Scott_M]

3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

But to strike the refs off, don't you think that would require Mike Riley to think there was a problem?

 

He was a snivelling shit when he was on the pitch and he seems to continue to be a snivelling shit now.

 

I bet when he was younger, he always wanted to play football with the cool kids but was absolutely shite, got picked last and always put in goal. I then bet he thought "How can I get back at these?" and after failing in an interview to be a Traffic Warden, decided to become a referee. 

 

I would say they should replace him with a more respected referee but Webb or Clattenburg are just as big as wankers.

[Jairzinho]

We have the worst referees in any major league in Europe. Fat, old, incompetent, often bent, cunts. Putting them in charge of VAR is having predictably disastrous results. They're fucking imbeciles and we've given them something to further complicate their job. 

 

As the possibility of removing almost all, if not all, of our referees by next season and replacing them with people that aren't fucking atrocious at their jobs is slim, I favour just fucking VAR off. 

 

[Supremolad]

We saw Luiz sent off a few days ago bcos of an accidental trip. But today, Dias doesn't get a red card for deliberately pulling Salah. This sport has gone mad.

 

Thought the red card should have been produced because Dias wasn't "attempting to play the ball". Which is the same reason we were told Luiz was sent off for.

[Barrington Womble]

22 minutes ago, Supremolad said:

We saw Luiz sent off a few days ago bcos of an accidental trip. But today, Dias doesn't get a red card for deliberately pulling Salah. This sport has gone mad.

 

Thought the red card should have been produced because Dias wasn't "attempting to play the ball". Which is the same reason we were told Luiz was sent off for.

My thoughts exactly. Apparently stones was covering. Which he only was because Salah was pulled back, otherwise he's never getting there. 

[Barrington Womble]

6 hours ago, Scott_M said:

 

He was a snivelling shit when he was on the pitch and he seems to continue to be a snivelling shit now.

 

I bet when he was younger, he always wanted to play football with the cool kids but was absolutely shite, got picked last and always put in goal. I then bet he thought "How can I get back at these?" and after failing in an interview to be a Traffic Warden, decided to become a referee. 

 

I would say they should replace him with a more respected referee but Webb or Clattenburg are just as big as wankers.

Graham poll was a shite ref, but he's one of the few I've ever heard who's prepared to call this current crop out. And he also explains why they're shit, about them being on a career path so they're trying to impress the next line of people on their progression and as a consequence their decision making will change. He's been opinionated enough to suggest he might be able to do the job, although he's been pushed aside by the TV stations, strangely in favour of those refs who will go out of their way to support every on field decision. 

[Jennings]

52 minutes ago, Supremolad said:

We saw Luiz sent off a few days ago bcos of an accidental trip. But today, Dias doesn't get a red card for deliberately pulling Salah. This sport has gone mad.

 

Thought the red card should have been produced because Dias wasn't "attempting to play the ball". Which is the same reason we were told Luiz was sent off for.

It wasn't even a penalty, never mind a red.

[dockers_strike]

I noticed a few city players especially that Diaz kicking the ball away on our free kicks yet Oliver never carded him \ them.

[sir roger]

He was a bit lax on that stuff , but overall he put in a far better performance than any of our players ,ds.

 

 

 

[Trumo]

West Ham's Tomas Soucek has had his red card at Fulham rescinded, making it the second time in a week that a red card issued by Mike Dean has been rescinded. Lee Mason was the VAR for that match, and he was the 4th official at the United-Southampton match that saw Bednarek be red-carded when he shouldn't have been. That's two fuck-ups by officials even after they've had multiple opportunities to review incidents. Lee Mason on VAR had claimed Soucek "made a fist" when catching Mitrovic with his elbow, something that nobody else could verify. Because it was absolute bollocks obviously.

 

Dean won't be refereeing any games this coming week because he's had death threats apparently. I'm not suggesting that's made-up because we keep seeing twats on social media routinely post threats, racial abuse and all sorts of malignant shite these days, but that is the reason PGMOL are giving for Dean's non-involvement in upcoming matches.

 

Don't worry Mike Dean. At least one of the other shit bastards from your cabal will do something equally stupid during a match this week to take the limelight away from you.

 

 

[Frank Dacey]

Dean is reffing one of the FA cup ties this weekend, so he's obviously not being punished. Not only have 2 red cards of his been rescinded but he was also VAR when Southampton were denied a stonewall penalty at home to Villa.

One of the other things VAR is doing is increasing the workload on refs. Friend was 4th official in the tea time game on Saturday at Fulham and then reffed the Sunday evening game at Bramall Lane. What chance does that give hime to rest, recover and prepare? Of course, you could well argue that a rested, recovered and prepared Kevin Friend would still be awful.

[aws]

Dean will ref one of our games soon and decide not to send off an opponent for a clear red offence. That's the way the shit rolls this season. 

[sir roger]

1 hour ago, Frank Dacey said:

Dean is reffing one of the FA cup ties this weekend, so he's obviously not being punished. Not only have 2 red cards of his been rescinded but he was also VAR when Southampton were denied a stonewall penalty at home to Villa.

One of the other things VAR is doing is increasing the workload on refs. Friend was 4th official in the tea time game on Saturday at Fulham and then reffed the Sunday evening game at Bramall Lane. What chance does that give hime to rest, recover and prepare? Of course, you could well argue that a rested, recovered and prepared Kevin Friend would still be awful.

One of the ex refs brought that up this morning , saying they are basically shattered as there have been no additions to a small pool of officials  and VAR duties have been added to the usual ref / 4th man duties , with a more condensed schedule.

[Kevin D]

On 07/02/2021 at 19:36, Supremolad said:

We saw Luiz sent off a few days ago bcos of an accidental trip. But today, Dias doesn't get a red card for deliberately pulling Salah. This sport has gone mad.

 

Thought the red card should have been produced because Dias wasn't "attempting to play the ball". Which is the same reason we were told Luiz was sent off for.

 

I thought it was a sending off, as well.

[Barrington Womble]

20 hours ago, sir roger said:

One of the ex refs brought that up this morning , saying they are basically shattered as there have been no additions to a small pool of officials  and VAR duties have been added to the usual ref / 4th man duties , with a more condensed schedule.

maybe we should get rid of VAR to give them a rest and replace it with a text in voting system. it couldn't be worse for us than it is right now. 

[ZonkoVille77]

They need ex pros working with refs on VAR. Ex refs could be used here.

 

Corrupt cunts, regardless. 

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

They need ex pros working with refs on VAR. Ex refs could be used here.

 

Corrupt cunts, regardless. 

The ex refs are just was bad. Listening to Peter Walton and Dermot Gallagher twist and turn to find new and wonderful ways to support onfield decisions is a joy to behold.