Firmino Racism Allegations

[an tha]

I totally get you, but the fact that this played out on forums all over the football world and social media takes it to another level.

 

I dont know why, Im almost as mad as if he had been charged.

 

The FA are happy to use all manner of terminology and properly stick the boot in when they are confident of a conviction but shy away when it goes against them. If he was charged that statement would have included reference to lip readers, player statements etc. They should include that on this occasion also, to emphasise that Bobby is not a racist

I absolutely get you too, mate.

 

It is a minefield isn't....good news is though the bitters are spewing, Firmino is missing no games and the right thing seems to have been done - slowly!

[Bob]

Some of you lot need to take a step back a bit. The fact he hasn’t been charged is the important bit and while it’s taken far too long to get here (whether charged or not, it was too long) the time taken cannot be viewed as them trying to get the decision to go one way or another.

 

The failure to punish holgate for the push was the refs fault at the time. As soon as this then became the story they were never going to do anything about that as it was far simpler not to, and nobody apart from Internet forum fans has appeared to care so why cause problems for yourself if you’re the fa, especially when nobody was hurt.

 

This was always going to be either charged (and inevitably them guilty) or not charged and absolutely nothing else.

 

The wording they’ve used as pointed out by others is correct. Not enough evidence to bring a charge, but clarifying that no other witnesses (which includes the ref remember) heard anything racist.

 

The only alternative to tht language is to say holgate lied. That’s almost impossible to prove unless he tells you he did, and so again there’s no appetite to try to say so, hence insufficient evidence to charge.

 

Ultimately it’s pleasing that one of our players hasn’t said something racist. It’s also pleasing that they therefore won’t have any punishment. Furthermore it’s a bloody bonus that he’s played so well in the meantime, and had that not be the case the time taken would be even more of a gripe, but as it is, just move on.

 

Wanting holgate punished for the push is fine, but being enormously bothered that he hasn’t been is just daft. It’s unimportant. He’s shit and so are they.

[Dave D]

Some of you lot need to take a step back a bit. The fact he hasn’t been charged is the important bit and while it’s taken far too long to get here (whether charged or not, it was too long) the time taken cannot be viewed as them trying to get the decision to go one way or another.

 

The failure to punish holgate for the push was the refs fault at the time. As soon as this then became the story they were never going to do anything about that as it was far simpler not to, and nobody apart from Internet forum fans has appeared to care so why cause problems for yourself if you’re the fa, especially when nobody was hurt.

 

This was always going to be either charged (and inevitably them guilty) or not charged and absolutely nothing else.

 

The wording they’ve used as pointed out by others is correct. Not enough evidence to bring a charge, but clarifying that no other witnesses (which includes the ref remember) heard anything racist.

 

The only alternative to tht language is to say holgate lied. That’s almost impossible to prove unless he tells you he did, and so again there’s no appetite to try to say so, hence insufficient evidence to charge.

 

Ultimately it’s pleasing that one of our players hasn’t said something racist. It’s also pleasing that they therefore won’t have any punishment. Furthermore it’s a bloody bonus that he’s played so well in the meantime, and had that not be the case the time taken would be even more of a gripe, but as it is, just move on.

 

Wanting holgate punished for the push is fine, but being enormously bothered that he hasn’t been is just daft. It’s unimportant. He’s shit and so are they.

 

Dont agree there.

 

"No case to answer" would have been an acceptable alternative.

 

It would seem the "hammer" of warped FA law is used when guilty but a feather used to sweep away innocence 

[The Guest]

Bobs nailed it. Leave the bitterness and crying about the whole incident to them. It hasn’t really effected us at all. It seemed like a load of nonsense and that’s what’s transpired.

[SlugTrail]

I know what you mean but it isn't....say the bizzies investigate a robbery and you are in the frame - they have to investigate and then if they feel they have enough to pin it on you they charge you...charging you does not make you guilty - it just means you have to answer the charge and a case against you and will then be judged at the conclusion of that case...

what about that landlord who was accused of Murdering one of his tenants a few years ago on Christmas day, poor bloke was innocent but for weeks he was subject of dogs abuse.

 

And the reason they won't charge Holgate is because they don't want to be seen persecuting someone that has been allegedly racially abused. Not taking into account this was done before the alleged abuse.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

LFC - the club that's up to its elbows in historic acts of racism and industrial scale violence -

I think "DaveK" will have to enter the language to describe people for whom the phrase "swivel-eyed foaming loon" doesn't quite cut it.

[Dave D]

Robberies and murders aside, I just think the statement is too ambiguous for something that took that long to "investigate"

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

A few of the blues seem to be desperately clinging on to the wording of the FA statement, particularly the "insufficient evidence" bit. They're insinuating that there must be something in the claim because if there wasn't then the FA statement would've said there was "no evidence" from which to bring a charge.

 

They've done this because of their own ignorance. There was always going to be some evidence regarding the alleged racism. Holgate's written statement is evidence. As is his response to any cross examination or questioning on that statement.

 

Thus, they can't say there was "no evidence" at all. But, in a roundabout way, the FA statement appears to be saying that Holgate has made an accusation which not one other person within earshot was prepared to back up.

[an tha]

Full explanation here:

 

http://www.thefa.com/news/2018/feb/21/fa-roberto-firmino-mason-holgate-investigation-decision-210218

[Dave D]

Full explanation here:

 

http://www.thefa.com/news/2018/feb/21/fa-roberto-firmino-mason-holgate-investigation-decision-21021

 

A bit more comprehensive to be fair- SSN only going with the insufficient evidence line fanning the flames on both sides.  

[magicrat]

Full explanation here:

 

http://www.thefa.com/news/2018/feb/21/fa-roberto-firmino-mason-holgate-investigation-decision-210218

 

Its probably pretty much the truth. Took way too long but other than that all something and nothing, 

[johnsusername]

Mason is a shit first name.

[magicrat]

Mason is a shit first name.

 

He should be charged for that

[Dave D]

Although it still irks that they used terms such as "balance of probability"  when they couldnt categorically nail Suarez whereas on this occasion they are happy to appease Holgate when the "balance of probability" is overwhelmingly against

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Although it still irks that they used terms such as "balance of probability" when they couldnt categorically nail Suarez whereas on this occasion they are happy to appease Holgate when the "balance of probability" is overwhelmingly against

Two totally different settings though. The Suarez terminology was post charge. Firmino hasn't been charged so terminology like balance of probability, not guilty etc don't apply.

[Dave D]

Lets not forget, unless Holgate can speak Portuguese, then his accusation is guesswork at best, intentionally untrue at worst 

[Guest]

He should be charged for that

How much should he be charged to change his name by deed poll?

[Strontium]

I think "DaveK" will have to enter the language to describe people for whom the phrase "swivel-eyed foaming loon" doesn't quite cut it.

Careful calling Holgate a loon, he might mishear.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Careful calling Holgate a loon, he might mishear.

I wouldn't want to niggle him.

[3 Stacks]

Everton supporters in not understanding the very basic legal concept of "innocent until proven guilty" shocker. 

[Chip Butty]

I wouldn't want to niggle him.

 

He'll complain to fuck, he's a proper nagger. 

[ngogswilly]

I would take the point that it'd be almost impossible for the FA to prove Holgate lied to distract from what he'd just done.

 

But there has to be some sort of process or system to stop players throwing out false accusations.

 

If this was a workplace incident and someone threw out a false racism accusation, whether misheard or not, I'm not sure they'd get off so easily.

[Stickman]

Just been over to GOT is it any wonder they're frothing at the mouth that their season has been ruined with this when the thread title from that day is....

"Holgate racially abused by Firmino" I think it's pretty obvious what they were desperately hoping for from day one.

[Pidge]

Got off on a technicality apparently.  The technicality of no evidence.  12 players and officials interviewed, none of which heard anything - but they are still convinced.

 

One of the brighter sparks has called for a DPA request to access the "unseen footage".  Not the Freedom of Information Act (which also wouldn't apply, mind), the Data Protection Act...

[Unrighteous]

Any apology from Holgate or Everton yet?