Firmino Racism Allegations

[The Golden Eel]

The whole thing is ridiculous . No real evidence on film that anything untoward happened, the ref heard nothing, Holgate pushed Bobby over the hoardings and they have dug up a few deleted tweets form 5 years ago.  Just fucking jog on, none of it is worth a second look.

 

If a player is alleging racist abuse and is seemingly sticking to that - as presumably we would know by now if he'd retracted the allegation - then I can't see how you can say it's not worth a second look. It could all turn out to be a misunderstanding or something more sinister (on either side) but they have to look into it.

[INTORRESTING]

Firmino should get nothing, he got shoved into the bloody crowd.  Holgate should have been off for that and that should have been it.

[The Golden Eel]

Firmino should get nothing, he got shoved into the bloody crowd.  Holgate should have been off for that and that should have been it.

 

Even if he's called him something untoward?

[Baltar]

Nothing will come of this racism investigation and Bobby will be exonerated but Holgate will still come out the winner. There is no way on earth the FA will ban Holgate for his violent conduct (which they fucking well should be doing) whilst absolving Firminio of these bullshit allegations of racism. We know the FA does not operate with any logic and the emotion of this incident will see them let Holgate off the hook. 

That Holgate has got away with this blatant violent conduct which he's shrouded with these racism claims is a disgrace.

[Barnesey]

Madley says he did not hear any racist comment from Bobby. But he must have heard the abusive outburst. The relevance of this is that he did not punish it and, like the push, the FA will struggle to impose a ban if the referee took no action at the time.

 

I'm hopeful the FA will announce they have undertaken a full investigation, there is no evidence of wrong doing and the matter will be dropped.

[INTORRESTING]

Even if he's called him something untoward?

after that shove, no.

 

People swear at the refs and linesman and nothing ever happens.

 

They would be mad to make a precedent for swearing.

[The Golden Eel]

after that shove, no.

 

People swear at the refs and linesman and nothing ever happens.

 

They would be mad to make a precedent for swearing.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean swearing - I agree on that. I mean something racist.

[magicrat]

If a player is alleging racist abuse and is seemingly sticking to that - as presumably we would know by now if he'd retracted the allegation - then I can't see how you can say it's not worth a second look. It could all turn out to be a misunderstanding or something more sinister (on either side) but they have to look into it.

 

I think this is more politicking by the FA than dealing with any serious breach of conduct, 

In the absence of any footage to support the claim and the comments by the red It could all have been dealt with in a day by bringing the players together for a chat and a handshake

Instead they want to be seen raking over the minutiae of something and nothing.

[INTORRESTING]

Apologies, if he has, then he will get ruined and rightly so.  I can't see it though as it would have been picked up by the vultures and hyenas by now.

[The Golden Eel]

I think this is more politicking by the FA than dealing with any serious breach of conduct, 

In the absence of any footage to support the claim and the comments by the red It could all have been dealt with in a day by bringing the players together for a chat and a handshake

Instead they want to be seen raking over the minutiae of something and nothing.

 

Yeah, but obviously Holgate hasn't said that he wants it to be dealt with by the means you suggest. I'm not saying there's any truth in it by the way, just that we don't yet know and that this type of claim has to be investigated properly.

[magicrat]

Yeah, but obviously Holgate hasn't said that he wants it to be dealt with by the means you suggest. I'm not saying there's any truth in it by the way, just that we don't yet know and that this type of claim has to be investigated properly.

 

We don't know what Holgate has said mate. The FA have got their claws into it and he probably cant go back and shake hands with Firmino even if wanted to, I very much doubt he wants all his old tweets dragged up and a potential violent conduct charge hanging over him.

These things get a life of their own when the FA's policy on racism is at stake and it's actually them on trial not the players,

[A_S]

If the ref saw it and took no action I don't think it can be retrospectively looked at.

A ref can look at a video replay of an incident in a match he officiated in only days ago, see a better angle of the incident, but can't do anything about it.

 

The FA can go back 5 fucking years to whena player was a kid, with no ties to his current team and ban him for shit that had been said.

 

Ridiculous.

[G Richards]

Holgate should get a three match ban for foul play that endangered another player. Lots of people give a nudge here and there but that was a forceful push, both hands on the back, to a man running at speed towards the line.

 

The Twitter thing should be overlooked, so long as he distances himself from the comments and makes an apology. I can accept that those comments are the misguided words of a young man from several years ago. But since football is keen to move in a more enlightened direction, this can’t be swept under the carpet and he should apologize. If no apology, then a ban comes into play.

 

As for the Firmino alleged racist insult, it needs to run its course, and hopefully it is near conclusion now as there’s not much to investigate.

 

If racist language cannot be proven or demonstrated, even with the ref in close proximity, plus other witnesses, plus the cameras, then there should be no charge and a line drawn under it.

 

It is turns out that it was likely a mistake, as the player misunderstood what Firmino said to be racist but he won’t admit that, the. The FA can say on the balance of probability our investigation found that it was an insult in Portuguese that the player misunderstood.

 

At that point the FA can give Firmino a small ban for abusive language, and they might if say Holgate gets three games for dangerous play, as they may go for a tit for tat sort of thing in the hope of placating both sets of supporters, when in fact that would just raise more anger.

 

Three game ban for Holgate, one game at most for Firmino for foul language, but I’m not holding my breath. It’s the FA and they have form for spectacularly missing the point.

[magicrat]

A ref can look at a video replay of an incident in a match he officiated in only days ago, see a better angle of the incident, but can't do anything about it.

 

The FA can go back 5 fucking years to whena player was a kid, with no ties to his current team and ban him for shit that had been said.

 

Ridiculous.

 

The point is the FA can review the post match footage and take action ,  I actually don't think 

think this is illogical much as think there is much to dislike about the FA

[Bjornebye]

He called him a son of a whore. Holgate is a lying thug of a twat. 

[Anubis]

I'm afraid I have no sympathy over Holgate's tweets. He's an arrogant little shit who chose to stick his head above the parapet on Friday, so if it ends up getting chopped off he'll have nobody but himself to blame. He may learn some humility from the experience.

[The Golden Eel]

We don't know what Holgate has said mate. The FA have got their claws into it and he probably cant go back and shake hands with Firmino even if wanted to, I very much doubt he wants all his old tweets dragged up and a potential violent conduct charge hanging over him.

These things get a life of their own when the FA's policy on racism is at stake and it's actually them on trial not the players,

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Surely if Holgate didn't want any charge to proceed he would have done something about it before it had got to the stage of being investigated? All it would take was for him to say, "Sorry, i was wrong. Forget about it". The fact he hasn't done this would suggest that he's standing by the allegation, surely? Or are you suggesting they're investigating it against his wishes? 

[sh#t waffle]

He called him a son of a whore. 

The issue is that there is a definite delay between him saying that and Holgate reacting, and you can't see what Firmino said in the interim. Not saying I believe it was something racist (I genuinely don't know - but I do know it needs to be investigated properly), but unless the referee or others are able to categorically state that they heard what Firmino said and it wasn't racist, I suspect the FA will fudge it and say there is not enough evidence to proceed. Which, as others have said, will mean mud sticks re Firmino, even if he is innocent.

[magicrat]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Surely if Holgate didn't want any charge to proceed he would have done something about it before it had got to the stage of being investigated? All it would take was for him to say, "Sorry, i was wrong. Forget about it". The fact he hasn't done this would suggest that he's standing by the allegation, surely? Or are you suggesting they're investigating it against his wishes? 

 

I bet they are investigating it against his wishes now its snowballed, I'm guessing he probably did think he heard a racial slur but now in the cold light of day and lack of footage has doubts as to what he actually heard, Too late the show is on the road and will run its course and the FA have to be seen taking a stand

[Jockey]

The irony being - when the derby at Goodison is played Firmino will be booed to high heaven by Evertonians who'll be so disgusted by his racists behaviour they'll all be singing 'ladyboy'. 

 

You just know it.

[Anubis]

For mud not to stick the referee needs to state, unequivocally, that he was stood in front of Firmino, inches away, heard everything Firmino said, and that there was no racist remark, especially the word Holgate accused Firmino of using.

[Jockey]

For mud not to stick the referee needs to state, unequivocally, that he was stood in front of Firmino, inches away, heard everything Firmino said, and that there was no racist remark, especially the word Holgate accused Firmino of using.

 

Nah - just point out the same thing happened to Duncan Ferguson, thankfully as he proved the system works. 

[TheHowieLama]

The mud, ironic word, has already stuck and there is no way to wash it clean. 

[TheHowieLama]

Absolute bollocks. 

 

You are completely wrong here mate. If imaginary race cards (akin to crying wolf) are deemed acceptable the whole loses traction on the issue. 

[Fugitive]

Absolute bollocks.

Hades Just has a massive problem with Brazilians. He’s a very Xenophobic man.