As Amazon Shares Fall, Jeff Bezos Is No Longer A Centi-Billionaire

[stringvest]

I hope a bird shits on his head. 

 

 

or hatches it

[cloggypop]

EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY

Never trust a hippy

[VladimirIlyich]

Well it won’t make you a fucking hypocrite and if enough people sharing your view it will. Although every man has his price and that seems to be the price of an album.

So you will stop using the NHS or insist on paying for your child's education instead of using the free services created by the post ww2 Labour government? Hypocrite.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Nail on the head. I bet everyone moaning has a Prime account and participated in Black Friday.

I'm only moaning because Amazon shares feature strongly in my portfolio, so I'm losing out here.

 

For what it's worth, I'm not even sure what a Prime account is, I swerve "Black Friday" and I think the idea of talking to a box in the middle of the room and telling it to switch on the lights is just fucking stupid.  But none of that is the point.  The point is that "centibillionaire" is a thing and that anybody proposing to tax these people properly to fund the services that millions of people urgently need (and the investments that our economies urgently need) is branded some sort of political extremist; and that's pretty fucked.

[Rico1304]

I'm only moaning because Amazon shares feature strongly in my portfolio, so I'm losing out here.

 

For what it's worth, I'm not even sure what a Prime account is, I swerve "Black Friday" and I think the idea of talking to a box in the middle of the room and telling it to switch on the lights is just fucking stupid. But none of that is the point. The point is that "centibillionaire" is a thing and that anybody proposing to tax these people properly to fund the services that millions of people urgently need (and the investments that our economies urgently need) is branded some sort of political extremist; and that's pretty fucked.

I’ve said loads of times on here that people who illegally avoid tax should be sent down and have all the tax they’ve not paid levied as a fine. It’s fucking disgusting that companies get away with it. The first Lewis Hamilton or Jeff doing 5 years would certainly show the government means business. The problem you’ve got is the rewards for exploiting the loopholes are greater than closing the loopholes so the best people are on the wrong side.

[Rico1304]

So you will stop using the NHS or insist on paying for your child's education instead of using the free services created by the post ww2 Labour government? Hypocrite.

Free? I think your idea of free is different to mine, you know with me paying tax and national insurance.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I’ve said loads of times on here that people who illegally avoid tax should be sent down and have all the tax they’ve not paid levied as a fine. It’s fucking disgusting that companies get away with it. The first Lewis Hamilton or Jeff doing 5 years would certainly show the government means business. The problem you’ve got is the rewards for exploiting the loopholes are greater than closing the loopholes so the best people are on the wrong side.

True.  Also, the loopholes need closing; laws need to be changed.  Lewis Hamilton and most of the other Panama/Paradise Papers twats did nothing illegal.  They just did stuff which should be illegal.

 

What I don't understand about the super-rich is the mindset that drives you towards tax-dodging schemes.  OK, if you pay your sharp & shady accountant to bounce your money around the world, you might save a few million.  But if you choose just to pay your tax, you'll still be left with hundreds of millions anyway - hundreds of millions more than it is possible to spend in a lifetime.

[Rico1304]

True. Also, the loopholes need closing; laws need to be changed. Lewis Hamilton and most of the other Panama/Paradise Papers twats did nothing illegal. They just did stuff which should be illegal.

 

What I don't understand about the super-rich is the mindset that drives you towards tax-dodging schemes. OK, if you pay your sharp & shady accountant to bounce your money around the world, you might save a few million. But if you choose just to pay your tax, you'll still be left with hundreds of millions anyway - hundreds of millions more than it is possible to spend in a lifetime.

One of my cousins is a property lawyer, he usually deals with huge purchases on behalf of businesses. In the 90’s he created a really complex way of avoiding a particular tax, it cost about £40k to set up various other companies and sell single shares in them (you can tell I didn’t really understand it) but could save millions. If he’d worked for the Revenue he’d have saved the country tens of millions but couldnthe Revenue have paid him the same as a civil servant as he got in private practice?

[Mook]

I see they're doing an excellent deal on Duncan Clark's The Rough Guide to Ethical Shopping.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rough-Guide-Ethical-Shopping/dp/1843532654

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I have to laugh at all the hypocrisy claims. People shop out of necessity, if you dig deep enough and back up your own moral standards there would be nowhere left to shop. It's also possible to shop through Amazon by using independent traders. The cunts should pay their taxes, but who is it letting them get away with it? Ah, the gov't some vote for, purely down to self interest of course. Much like the hypocrisy claims of those who shop down to self interest. We're all cunts in the big scheme of things, but the biggest cunts are those who think they are better because they can pull others up despite doing the same stuff themselves. 

[Rico1304]

I have to laugh at all the hypocrisy claims. People shop out of necessity, if you dig deep enough and back up your own moral standards there would be nowhere left to shop. It's also possible to shop through Amazon by using independent traders. The cunts should pay their taxes, but who is it letting them get away with it? Ah, the gov't some vote for, purely down to self interest of course. Much like the hypocrisy claims of those who shop down to self interest. We're all cunts in the big scheme of things, but the biggest cunts are those who think they are better because they can pull others up despite doing the same stuff themselves.

What are you rambling on about you daft twat? Maybe we should send you over to Amazon to beat him up in reception, that’ll show him.

[Rotpeter]

I have to laugh at all the hypocrisy claims. People shop out of necessity, if you dig deep enough and back up your own moral standards there would be nowhere left to shop. It's also possible to shop through Amazon by using independent traders. The cunts should pay their taxes, but who is it letting them get away with it? Ah, the gov't some vote for, purely down to self interest of course. Much like the hypocrisy claims of those who shop down to self interest. We're all cunts in the big scheme of things, but the biggest cunts are those who think they are better because they can pull others up despite doing the same stuff themselves. 

 

Hypocrisy claims aside.  As long as you are clear you are perpetuating Amazon et al when you use them, then that's fine, that's your value judgement.  But let's just be clear here.  These companies listen to no-one except the market.  Even when motivated govt's go after them in specific cases it's with limited success.  Hell, some of them can afford to tie the governments up in red-tape and legal BS forever.  So, finger pointing at useless politicians is of no value.

 

These companies only listen to the market.  Ergo, if you want them to change, use the market to send the message.  If you don't want them to change enough, don't use the market to send them the message. But be aware the market transmits your choice as "carry on, what you're doing."

 

Everyone has a choice.  Democracy in action.....

[Strontium]

I think the issue is that some people, rather than exercising the choice that the market gives them - a bewildering array of choice as we've never had before in the course of human history - would rather piss and moan about the existence of the market in the first place.

 

This railing against the market is, ironically, a form of conservatism.

[Jairzinho]

Support of the likes of Amazon, ironically, isn't liberal.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Hypocrisy claims aside.  As long as you are clear you are perpetuating Amazon et al when you use them, then that's fine, that's your value judgement.  But let's just be clear here.  These companies listen to no-one except the market.  Even when motivated govt's go after them in specific cases it's with limited success.  Hell, some of them can afford to tie the governments up in red-tape and legal BS forever.  So, finger pointing at useless politicians is of no value.

 

These companies only listen to the market.  Ergo, if you want them to change, use the market to send the message.  If you don't want them to change enough, don't use the market to send them the message. But be aware the market transmits your choice as "carry on, what you're doing."

 

Everyone has a choice.  Democracy in action.....

The trouble with equating the market as a democracy, is it requires fully informed consumers with a range of choices available to them.  Those two criteria are much rarer than a lot of politicians and millionaires crack on.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I think the issue is that some people, rather than exercising the choice that the market gives them - a bewildering array of choice as we've never had before in the course of human history - would rather piss and moan about the existence of the market in the first place.

 

This railing against the market is, ironically, a form of conservatism.

Choice (or the illusion of choice) is not an end in itself.

 

I would much prefer a single, coordinated, free-at-point-of-use, universal health service than any range of private clinics and insurance plans - because the NHS is the best way of assuring healthcare for all.

[Strontium]

The trouble with equating the market as a democracy, is it requires fully informed consumers with a range of choices available to them.  Those two criteria are much rarer than a lot of politicians and millionaires crack on.

 

People seem pretty informed here about Amazon and the way it operates. Yet they continue to use Amazon even though other options exist. There must be something more than asymmetry of information and absence of choice.

 

I mean, people seem happy to bank with banks, profit-making PLCs, rather than mutual co-operatives like building societies. The choice is there, the information is there. I don't think people care as much as they claim to care. That is where virtue signalling comes in.

[Strontium]

Choice (or the illusion of choice) is not an end in itself.

 

I would much prefer a single, coordinated, free-at-point-of-use, universal health service than any range of private clinics and insurance plans - because the NHS is the best way of assuring healthcare for all.

 

There are lots of ways of organising a successful universal healthcare system, the NHS being just one of them. But I would be wary of comparing something like healthcare with a retailer selling books and DVDs, it muddies the water.

[cloggypop]

Virtue signalling comes in when right wing tosspots decide to use the wanky made up terminology.

[Rotpeter]

The trouble with equating the market as a democracy, is it requires fully informed consumers with a range of choices available to them.  Those two criteria are much rarer than a lot of politicians and millionaires crack on.

I'm not in any way trying to generalize the point. In this particular case: them's your choices. Choose.

 

People need to start educating themselves about they tools they have at their disposal because increasingly the old tools don't work anymore. Relying on politicians to correct a problem as complex and inter-related as this and in this environment of untruths, lobbying, politicians selling out for a quick buck etc will not work.

 

 

So be pissed, when nothing happens or [corny]Be the change you want to see[/corny]

[Rotpeter]

I think the issue is that some people, rather than exercising the choice that the market gives them - a bewildering array of choice as we've never had before in the course of human history - would rather piss and moan about the existence of the market in the first place.

 

This railing against the market is, ironically, a form of conservatism.

 

No the real issue is that people don't realize where their power is.  It's in their ability to signal the market and in this age of completely decentralized communication, it's a big,big stick.

[Rotpeter]

People seem pretty informed here about Amazon and the way it operates. Yet they continue to use Amazon even though other options exist. There must be something more than asymmetry of information and absence of choice.

 

I mean, people seem happy to bank with banks, profit-making PLCs, rather than mutual co-operatives like building societies. The choice is there, the information is there. I don't think people care as much as they claim to care. That is where virtue signalling comes in.

 

The problem is convenience.  Many times, I'll compromise my values for the sake of convenience.

 

Convenience, the greatest evil known to man!

[Jairzinho]

I don't use Amazon, and I bank with Triodos, so I am basically the bestest person ever.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

There are lots of ways of organising a successful universal healthcare system, the NHS being just one of them. But I would be wary of comparing something like healthcare with a retailer selling books and DVDs, it muddies the water.

I thought you were broadening the subject out to more general economic philosophy. No worries.

 

For what it's worth, my view of tax dodgers like Amazon is that they are doing exactly what you would expect them to do, in the absence of any serious attempt to get them to pay their taxes. All private companies will seek to maximise profits; it makes as much sense blaming them for that as it does blaming a dog for barking.

 

I blame successive governments (involving all three major national parties) for encouraging corporate misconduct.

[Dougie Do'ins]

Amazon's arrival set to shake up Australia's retail sector

Amazon has made its long-awaited entry into Australia, in a move that could have ramifications for the country's A$300bn (£171bn) retail sector.
Online shopping makes up a relatively small - but growing - proportion of retail sales in Australia.
Geography, poor infrastructure and firms slow to adapt to e-commerce have held the sector back.

Australia's retail industry association said Amazon would help local firms by providing a new sales platform.
Australian consumers could previously buy through Amazon's US site. From Tuesday they can buy locally, as the American retail giant has established a huge distribution warehouse on the outskirts of Melbourne on the country's east coast, home to most of the population.

The move should cut shipping costs and delivery times for Australian shoppers.
The arrival of Amazon has left some retailers bracing for a shake-up of the industry.

Shares of traditional retailers like department store operator Myer Holdings and electronics firm JB HiFi have fallen sharply since Amazon confirmed plans to enter the market in April.
Many of these companies have been slow to develop what retail analyst and chief executive of the Retail Doctor Group, Brian Walker, describes as an "omni-channel offer", linking their physical stores with websites and distribution channels.

Lagging technology
Online shopping makes up between 8% to 13% of total retail sales in Australia.
Among the factors frustrating growth of the sector has been poor access to high-speed broadband in parts of the country.
In the most recent State of the Internet survey, US internet firm Akami ranked Australia 50th in the world for internet speed.
The country's largest infrastructure project - the $49bn rollout of the National Broadband Network - has been hamstrung by delays, policy shifts and cost overruuns.

Australia's sheer land size coupled with low population density makes the logistics of retail delivery expensive. The country is the size of the mainland US, with one-thirteenth of its population.
Mr Walker said Australia was "not an easy country" for e-commerce businesses.
"It's geographically spread out [and] it's relatively expensive for shipping and freight."

Retail woes
The retail sector has seen other challenges.
Bricks-and-mortar retailers have been struggling amid tough competition, and price discounts have failed to entice customers facing low wage growth and high levels of debt.

Australian Retail Association executive director Russell Zimmerman said small businesses have seen rising costs and increased global competition, as well as the challenges of the "24-hour market place".
But he believes Amazon's Marketplace - which has more than 300 million active users - could provide a lift to the Australia sector.
The platform will offer "millions" of products from well-known Australian brands, as well as smaller local business selling on the Marketplace platform.

"The majority of Australian retailers view Amazon's platform as a supplementary channel to their current retail offering," he said.
Still, not all have been impressed with Amazon's first day's trade. Local media reported complaints of limited product range and uncompetitive prices.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42233752