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Spy Bee

Bitcoin and other Crypto...

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3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Bitcoin is actually worth as much as people are willing to pay for it.

Yeah, which is the definition of the greater fool theory. 

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20 minutes ago, Boss said:

Yeah, which is the definition of the greater fool theory. 

 

And AMC is supposed to be a meme stock if I'm not mistaken, so not exactly reflecting any real value either. 

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13 hours ago, Boss said:

Why is Bitcoin £25,000 when you can't use it anywhere? Why will it go up? On what logical basis? Nobody uses it to buy anything. It is a currency after all. Everyone is just following the greater fool theory based on past returns. What happens if it crashes to £10,000? What is a Bitcoin actually worth?

GBP and the USD are not tied to the gold standard and haven't been for some time. So what is their value? 40% of all USD has been minted in the last 12 months. Whereas BTC is a finite and ultimately deflationary coin. The obsession that it needs to be tied to something is bizarre. What actually makes gold valuable other than the fact that it is in demand?

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1 hour ago, Spy Bee said:

GBP and the USD are not tied to the gold standard and haven't been for some time. So what is their value? 40% of all USD has been minted in the last 12 months. Whereas BTC is a finite and ultimately deflationary coin. The obsession that it needs to be tied to something is bizarre. What actually makes gold valuable other than the fact that it is in demand?

You can say that value is in trust that the same amount of goods and services, plus minus inflation, will be available for the same amount of currency in at least near future, based on past experience. Bitcoin on the other hand is too volatile for that, so the only thing left is supply and demand.

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4 hours ago, Spy Bee said:

GBP and the USD are not tied to the gold standard and haven't been for some time. So what is their value? 40% of all USD has been minted in the last 12 months. Whereas BTC is a finite and ultimately deflationary coin. The obsession that it needs to be tied to something is bizarre. What actually makes gold valuable other than the fact that it is in demand?

Pegged to a little thing called GDP. 

 

(Not the Token)

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7 hours ago, Spy Bee said:

GBP and the USD are not tied to the gold standard and haven't been for some time. So what is their value? 40% of all USD has been minted in the last 12 months. Whereas BTC is a finite and ultimately deflationary coin. The obsession that it needs to be tied to something is bizarre. What actually makes gold valuable other than the fact that it is in demand?

 

Gold is valuable because it's a highly prized precious metal that's used for luxury items. It's also a finite resource that costs a considerable amount of money to mine. GBP and USD are used every day by every company in the world so billions of people can buy goods and services. And as cochyn said, it's tied to GDP.

 

If someone can tell me a use case for Bitcoin where there isn't another currency more convenient, or a crypto more anonymous, then I'm all ears. I've yet to find a single use case for Bitcoin that fulfils that criteria. That makes it essentially worthless as a currency. So, it's only worth is as a speculative asset. It's not a store of value like Gold because it's way too volatile. So what makes the price go up?

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42 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

Gold is valuable because it's a highly prized precious metal that's used for luxury items. It's also a finite resource that costs a considerable amount of money to mine. GBP and USD are used every day by every company in the world so billions of people can buy goods and services. And as cochyn said, it's tied to GDP.

 

If someone can tell me a use case for Bitcoin where there isn't another currency more convenient, or a crypto more anonymous, then I'm all ears. I've yet to find a single use case for Bitcoin that fulfils that criteria. That makes it essentially worthless as a currency. So, it's only worth is as a speculative asset. It's not a store of value like Gold because it's way too volatile. So what makes the price go up?

Yeah I hear that and see your points. BTC scarcity is cited as important, as is privacy, but I don't see why BTC is valued so highly but Litecoin is not.  Same, but cheaper, and actually accepted as currency. 

But moreover, it too has scope to jump in value out of nowhere, so why would you part with it now if you think it might 10x?  Well, you don't. 

So where IS the currency exchange argument for crypto? I don't think it can ever replace fiat, but I think Facebook and Amazon will create their own 'token', and I would be surprised to see them develop it together. The business model would be for you to earn the token as a reward for the time you spend on any Meta affiliate app/site, which basically rewards you for being fed ads for hours on end, and then being able to use the tokens earned to buy things on FB and partner sites.  Competitions will give out these tokens, the whole Meta experience will be like a casino, you'll be bombarded with giveaways and comps and virtual scratch cards you find on the floor. 

 

But decentralised finance? Nah.  People won't trust it, and the recent rug pulls and scam coins will simply reinforce this to punters.  And to be honest, it's no more than crypto deserves.  It's the wild west right now. 

 

Good luck onboarding the masses to the metaverse without FB, Microsoft, Sony, Google or Amazon. 

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22 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Yeah I hear that and see your points. BTC scarcity is cited as important, as is privacy, but I don't see why BTC is valued so highly but Litecoin is not.  Same, but cheaper, and actually accepted as currency. 

But moreover, it too has scope to jump in value out of nowhere, so why would you part with it now if you think it might 10x?  Well, you don't. 

So where IS the currency exchange argument for crypto? I don't think it can ever replace fiat, but I think Facebook and Amazon will create their own 'token', and I would be surprised to see them develop it together. The business model would be for you to earn the token as a reward for the time you spend on any Meta affiliate app/site, which basically rewards you for being fed ads for hours on end, and then being able to use the tokens earned to buy things on FB and partner sites.  Competitions will give out these tokens, the whole Meta experience will be like a casino, you'll be bombarded with giveaways and comps and virtual scratch cards you find on the floor. 

 

But decentralised finance? Nah.  People won't trust it, and the recent rug pulls and scam coins will simply reinforce this to punters.  And to be honest, it's no more than crypto deserves.  It's the wild west right now. 

 

Good luck onboarding the masses to the metaverse without FB, Microsoft, Sony, Google or Amazon. 

 

I agree with what you're saying, I can see Facebook coming out with their own crypto that includes smart contracts so they can monetise every last thing in the Metaverse. it's clear with the Occulus that it's all about advertising to you, hence the necessity for a Facebook account to use the device. They keep saying they'll remove the need for that but their whole ethos is about locking you into their dystopian ecosystem. 

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1 hour ago, Boss said:

 

I agree with what you're saying, I can see Facebook coming out with their own crypto that includes smart contracts so they can monetise every last thing in the Metaverse. it's clear with the Occulus that it's all about advertising to you, hence the necessity for a Facebook account to use the device. They keep saying they'll remove the need for that but their whole ethos is about locking you into their dystopian ecosystem. 

Can't say I blame them, it seems like Zuckerberg has thought this thing through and developed a bit of kit over the course of a few years now, knowing that one day it'll be a household item, sold by them at a manageable price (£250-350), and will be utterly addictive. 

The Metaverse is his, he knows it, and he'll control what goes in it, and within it he can set-up his own economy. 

It's sewn up.  It's just a case of when he wants to make the next step. 

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11 hours ago, Boss said:

 

Gold is valuable because it's a highly prized precious metal that's used for luxury items. It's also a finite resource that costs a considerable amount of money to mine. GBP and USD are used every day by every company in the world so billions of people can buy goods and services. And as cochyn said, it's tied to GDP.

 

If someone can tell me a use case for Bitcoin where there isn't another currency more convenient, or a crypto more anonymous, then I'm all ears. I've yet to find a single use case for Bitcoin that fulfils that criteria. That makes it essentially worthless as a currency. So, it's only worth is as a speculative asset. It's not a store of value like Gold because it's way too volatile. So what makes the price go up?

It's the scarcity of gold which is what provides the price and store of value. BTC is obviously less mature as a market, so more volatile. I'm not suggesting BTC will replace all currencies, I think that's very unlikely, but as a speculative store of wealth it is miles above any other digital asset. 

 

People have been having arguments about it's like a intrinsic value since it was worth a few dollars. I'm not here to convince anyone, and I don't actually invest in BTC, but crypto has a clear future. The CEO of YouTube has just left to join xPolygon. This is where innovation is heading.

 

I'll just stick this here:

 

What is the The Diffusion of Innovation model? | Smart Insights

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14 hours ago, cochyn said:

Pegged to a little thing called GDP. 

 

(Not the Token)

But if I had $100,000 in the bank 12 months ago, it is now worth about $71k. This is just so we can perpetuate the impossible concept of continual growth. I do think hyperinflation is a real risk to fiat currencies. 

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1 hour ago, Spy Bee said:

It's the scarcity of gold which is what provides the price and store of value. BTC is obviously less mature as a market, so more volatile. I'm not suggesting BTC will replace all currencies, I think that's very unlikely, but as a speculative store of wealth it is miles above any other digital asset. 

 

People have been having arguments about it's like a intrinsic value since it was worth a few dollars. I'm not here to convince anyone, and I don't actually invest in BTC, but crypto has a clear future. The CEO of YouTube has just left to join xPolygon. This is where innovation is heading.

 

I'll just stick this here:

 

What is the The Diffusion of Innovation model? | Smart Insights

Where do you think we are on that graph?

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4 minutes ago, Lario said:

Where do you think we are on that graph?

Somewhere in the red. Or maybe earlier, so much innovation still happening. But then, I'm no innovator, so yeah, red.

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8 hours ago, Spy Bee said:

It's the scarcity of gold which is what provides the price and store of value. BTC is obviously less mature as a market, so more volatile. I'm not suggesting BTC will replace all currencies, I think that's very unlikely, but as a speculative store of wealth it is miles above any other digital asset. 

 

People have been having arguments about it's like a intrinsic value since it was worth a few dollars. I'm not here to convince anyone, and I don't actually invest in BTC, but crypto has a clear future. The CEO of YouTube has just left to join xPolygon. This is where innovation is heading.

 

I'll just stick this here:

 

What is the The Diffusion of Innovation model? | Smart Insights

Yeah, it feels early, and yet Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook not really made a crypto move yet, is that right? 

 

Anywayz, FED rates announcement very soon, could see x2's across the board. 

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Facebook already tried making a cryptocurrency and they got slapped down hard by regulators. It's probably why he's pivoted to the Metaverse narrative. There's no way any big company tries that again anytime soon.

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3 hours ago, Gooch said:

Facebook already tried making a cryptocurrency and they got slapped down hard by regulators. It's probably why he's pivoted to the Metaverse narrative. There's no way any big company tries that again anytime soon.

On contraire, I think Zuckerberg will double down, hence the combined might of Meta.  

The whole talk about 'breaking up' the tech giants is not going to happen.  If anything, they'll all join under one umbrella. Stop that. 

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15 hours ago, Spy Bee said:

But if I had $100,000 in the bank 12 months ago, it is now worth about $71k. This is just so we can perpetuate the impossible concept of continual growth. I do think hyperinflation is a real risk to fiat currencies. 

That would be true if the annual inflation rate was 30%. It is actually 7%.

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On 10/09/2021 at 11:18, Spy Bee said:

Who invested in cryptocurrencies in August?

✔️ Morgan Stanley Bank has acquired 6.5 million shares of Grayscale Bitcoin Trust.

✔️ The company Microstrategy, listed on the Nasdaq Exchange (MSFT), bought 3907 bitcoins worth $177 million.

✔️ The international investment company BlackRock (under the management of $9 trillion ) has invested $383 million in companies engaged in bitcoin mining.

✔️ The American banks of the "big four" JPMorgan and Wells Fargo have launched passively managed bitcoin funds for wealthy clients.

The interest from large investors shows that the cryptocurrency market is becoming a full-fledged part of the financial system.

Joe Customer: Can I give you my real money for this er, 'bitcoin' stuff I keep hearing about?

JP Morgan: Oh sure, we'll take your money. (value of assets may go up or down etc..) 

 

Crypto IMO is a broken promise: it promised to be an egalitarian currency model, but in actuality has turned into a highly speculative 'asset' class that thrives in green investor markets and is used mainly to obfuscate illegal transactions. Not to mention it's staggering energy use.

 

So, not for me. What money I have to invest goes into things I enjoy: rare cars at the base of their depreciation curve and pre-vintage guitars. I buy 'em, I enjoy 'em and when I'm done, I'll sell them for more than I paid. If I don't manage that, well, I've enjoyed the ride and the memories they bring. But at the moment at least, I'm well up. 

 

Genuinely glad some of you have made a tidy wedge from crypto - well done. Hope it goes well for you all.

 

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8 hours ago, SasaS said:

That would be true if the annual inflation rate was 30%. It is actually 7%.

I'm not talking about inflection. I am talking about the amount of USD in circulation.

 

8 hours ago, cochyn said:

Crypto IMO is a broken promise: it promised to be an egalitarian currency model, but in actuality has turned into a highly speculative 'asset' class that thrives in green investor markets and is used mainly to obfuscate illegal transactions. Not to mention it's staggering energy use.

 

So, not for me. What money I have to invest goes into things I enjoy: rare cars at the base of their depreciation curve and pre-vintage guitars. I buy 'em, I enjoy 'em and when I'm done, I'll sell them for more than I paid. If I don't manage that, well, I've enjoyed the ride and the memories they bring. But at the moment at least, I'm well up. 

 

Genuinely glad some of you have made a tidy wedge from crypto - well done. Hope it goes well for you all.

 

 

Some valid criticisms, some regurgitated propaganda. 

 

BTC is not perfect, blockchain is not perfect for a currency, but decentralised currency is the way to go. It reduced the power in the hands of the few and produces a more equitable currency system. I don't feel comfortable knowing that the IMF has so much power. I don't like hearing ideas such as expiry dates on currency, so you spend it or lose it.

 

I'm obviously not some crusader for fairer economics, and I am speculating because I want to pay my mortgage off, and this is akin to the goldrush, but with that said, I do think decentralisation is necessary, I do think that crypto, blockchain and DAG are stepping stones to a better global economy. 

 

While governments can just print money willy-nilly we will always have the military industrial complex, we will always have money being syphoned into already bulging private pockets. 

 

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

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