Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[cloggypop]

2 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

I don't really follow all this shite too closely as it doesn't really bother me that much, either way. 

 

But, is it true that that Graham Linehan set up his own private, invite only internet forum where he and other TERF types can obsess over trans folks? 

 

That's a bit fucking weird, if accurate. 

https://glindr.org/

[Rico1304]

Although apparently the Guardian is to stop using the term ‘cis’ after complaints from readers and journalists. 

[Rico1304]

JKR is now being accused of being right wing and is in danger of being cancelled. Lots of ‘celebs’ disowning her. Granted being a billionaire I’m sure she’s less than arsed but it’s hilarious to watch.  
 

this article has a pic of the person who was misgendered.  The one with the beard. 
 

https://spectator.us/jk-rowling-terf/

[aRdja]

JKR has gained loads of alt-right fans now. Hilarious. This virgin for example.

 

A potential candidate for IDW perhaps in the future.

[SasaS]

There is a scene in JKR's last Cormoran Strike novel where she ridicules people who fantasize about being amputees which is not particularly well disguised dig at self identifying transgenders. So, not surprising she came to the defense of the evil, evil TERF.

 

Meanwhile, some guy was sentenced to 15 years for burning the rainbow flag in Iowa.

[3 Stacks]

Personally, I think if you believe it's a big deal that someone wants to be called a pronoun different from the norm or you get mad at those people, you're a loser. Credit to me for having progressive views.

[Ne Moe Imya]

I've just spent 10 minutes reading this story and I'm still confused.

 

With all the best will in the world, Forstater was fired (at least in part) for refusing to call this person a woman:

 

 

Do I have that right? Am I missing something?

[Pidge]

1 minute ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I've just spent 10 minutes reading this story and I'm still confused.

 

With all the best will in the world, Forstater was fired (at least in part) for refusing to call this person a woman: 

 

 

Do I have that right? Am I missing something?

You don't have that right, no. You are missing something.

[Ne Moe Imya]

3 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Personally, I think if you believe it's a big deal that someone wants to be called a pronoun different from the norm or you get mad at those people, you're a loser. Credit to me for having progressive views.

This seems a reasonable position to me. But do you think people who disagree with you lose the right to have a job?

 

Because I think you're kind of setting up a straw man here. No one is defending people who "get mad at people who want to be called a different pronoun." I think the issue is whether someone who doesn't want to call another person by their chosen pronoun can be sacked for it.

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 minutes ago, Pidge said:

You don't have that right, no. You are missing something.

What is he missing (seriously, I’ve not read the story)? Is that the person pre-transition, or something? If not and it’s just some bloke being a cunt, I find it hard to support that. 

[Grinch]

11 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I've just spent 10 minutes reading this story and I'm still confused.

 

With all the best will in the world, Forstater was fired (at least in part) for refusing to call this person a woman:

 

 

Do I have that right? Am I missing something?

 

Pandering to the mentally ill is the new norm. 

[3 Stacks]

14 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

This seems a reasonable position to me. But do you think people who disagree with you lose the right to have a job?

 

Because I think you're kind of setting up a straw man here. No one is defending people who "get mad at people who want to be called a different pronoun." I think the issue is whether someone who doesn't want to call another person by their chosen pronoun can be sacked for it.

I was kind of joking with the credit to me thing.

 

On a serious note, every situation is different. I don't know who this Maya woman is but if she's in the public eye or if she's in a high profile job, making decisions about other employees that affect their livelihoods, she can't be saying stuff like that. It's bad for business. I googled her and it said she was a tax expert. Now, I don't know what kind of title that is exactly, but if she has employees under her she can't be disrespecting them like that and probably stood to lose her job.

 

If she was a low level employee from some random company in bumfuck Arkansas, I don't think it matters that much if she's a bit of a twat regarding trans people. It's not nice, but she probably wouldn't lose her job over it, unless people complained about her all the time.

[Pidge]

34 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

This seems a reasonable position to me. But do you think people who disagree with you lose the right to have a job?

 

Because I think you're kind of setting up a straw man here. No one is defending people who "get mad at people who want to be called a different pronoun." I think the issue is whether someone who doesn't want to call another person by their chosen pronoun can be sacked for it.

It isn't.  I've caught up a bit with this and it's pretty reductive to boil it down to that one thing. For a start Gregor Murray isn't claiming to be a woman, but they are trans. It is a matter of gender identity and I don't think she has the right to purposely misgender [edit]*cough* them [/edit] because of her views around biological sex.

 

But, more than that, there are several times cited in the judgement of her excluding and dismissing the identities of trans individuals.  She's been pretty vocal about it for a long time (including on her work Slack), so I don't think it's ridiculous that CGD decided that her views are not compatible with their values (especially the gender diversity policy: https://www.cgdev.org/page/our-commitment-gender-diversity)

 

I also spotted one of the Trustees of CGD is the Civil Service LGBT champion.

 

I wouldn't say all her views are necessarily wrong, there are points up for debate, but she's certainly gone about broadcasting her views with very little regard for the people affected by them. I wouldn't want her prosecuted or anything, but I think there's plenty of reason for CGD to decide they don't want to work with her anymore.

[Pidge]

12 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

What is he missing (seriously, I’ve not read the story)? Is that the person pre-transition, or something? If not and it’s just some bloke being a cunt, I find it hard to support that. 

see reply above.

[moof]

19 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

What is he missing (seriously, I’ve not read the story)? Is that the person pre-transition, or something? If not and it’s just some bloke being a cunt, I find it hard to support that. 

I think they are non-binary, and the company has a policy of respecting their employees. It seems like this woman was deliberately antagonistic and generally a menace to trans people. I wouldn’t want someone like that working at my company 

[3 Stacks]

But also, I just don't get people who are offended by what other people view themselves as. When it's as important as the sense of self and people having the freedom to be who they are, why do others have to question that when something like a person's sexuality has so little bearing on their own lives? Live and let live, you know. It's just weird that this lady can't indulge trans people. It's way easier to just be respectful.

[SasaS]

I think she is described as a feminist activist, of the anti-trans faction, which is ideologically important here.

[moof]

1 minute ago, 3 Stacks said:

But also, I just don't get people who are offended by what other people view themselves as. When it's as important as the sense of self and people having the freedom to be who they are, why do others have to question that when it has so little bearing on their own lives? Live and let live, you know. It's just weird that this lady can't indulge trans people. It's way easier to just be respectful.

Well said. I think it’s partly a case of being scared of the “other”, ignorance, and probably influenced by her social group and media hyperbole, the idea that trans people are a massive threat to women’s rights and so on. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

29 minutes ago, moof said:

I think they are non-binary, and the company has a policy of respecting their employees. It seems like this woman was deliberately antagonistic and generally a menace to trans people. I wouldn’t want someone like that working at my company 

If somebody is being a twat for the sake of being a twat, I can't blame them either. 

[cloggypop]

I've worked with a fair few trans people over here. No idea if that's the case because it's the Netherlands or it's about par everywhere these days. Never been a problem for me. Why would it be? Brave people getting on with their life. It's a very quick way of finding out who the absolute twats in a place are though. 

[Rico1304]

3 hours ago, SasaS said:

I think she is described as a feminist activist, of the anti-trans faction, which is ideologically important here.

I find it amazing that a woman who fights for women’s rights, is berated for objecting to men being allowed to decide they are women. 
 

it’s truly fucking mental.   

[Rico1304]

It comes down to the question;

 

Do you believe Trans women are women? 

[Pidge]

25 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

It comes down to the question;

 

Do you believe Trans women are women? 

I think with you lot it more comes down to whether you believe trans women are men...

[Rico1304]

9 minutes ago, Pidge said:

I think with you lot it more comes down to whether you believe trans women are men...

‘You lot’? Weird. 
 

it’s the same question. 
 

I don’t think a man can become a woman or vice versa. 
 

Do you? 

[Pidge]

Thought I'd give you some of the 'you lot' shite you love so much in the Labour threads.

 

It's not the same question, because it's wrong both in terms of gender and biology to treat it as a binary state. I don't believe trans women are the same as biological women, but I would find it derisive and insensitive in the extreme to call them men. I have a lot of sympathy with people who have gender dysphoria, I really hope a better understanding of it develops over time and I also hope society turns to accept people who have to cope with it day-to-day, rather than drive the quite revolting prejudice that they are dangerous perverts deserving only of further marginalisation.