Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Babb'sBurstNad]

I think there are interesting points being made, and the discussion should be had, even if tempers get heated.

 

Calling someone TK is crossing the line though.

[A Red]

51 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Calling someone TK is crossing the line though.

Well he is peddling dangerous shit and ignoring basic science. But ok, perhaps a step too far.

[Captain Willard]

I think it is fundamentally an issue of rights and how we gain or lose them in society. In  the Uk we mostly start off with a set of rights and risk losing them through transgressions; driving bans, injunctions and ultimately imprisonment. It’s harder to gain rights though there are examples ; age related (drinking, voting etc), passing exams or exceptionally by becoming disabled (rights to benefits and parking). This system is largely regulated by legislation  though it is confused  by the European courts which may assert an individual’s rights in supremacy to national courts. Where Trans issues subvert this is the individual is seeking to gain certain  rights (access to changing rooms, sports etc) by self assertion rather than legislation. If we said this applied to disabled parking it would be absurd and so for trans rights. You can, post self identify maintain your right to freedom of expression, not to be harassed, assaulted etc but you can’t unanimously claim the rights that weren’t available to you before. Only Parliament can do that becuase that’s how British society works. 

[Rico1304]

9 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

I think it is fundamentally an issue of rights and how we gain or lose them in society. In  the Uk we mostly start off with a set of rights and risk losing them through transgressions; driving bans, injunctions and ultimately imprisonment. It’s harder to gain rights though there are examples ; age related (drinking, voting etc), passing exams or exceptionally by becoming disabled (rights to benefits and parking). This system is largely regulated by legislation  though it is confused  by the European courts which may assert an individual’s rights in supremacy to national courts. Where Trans issues subvert this is the individual is seeking to gain certain  rights (access to changing rooms, sports etc) by self assertion rather than legislation. If we said this applied to disabled parking it would be absurd and so for trans rights. You can, post self identify maintain your right to freedom of expression, not to be harassed, assaulted etc but you can’t unanimously claim the rights that weren’t available to you before. Only Parliament can do that becuase that’s how British society works. 

Well said, but couldn’t you have mentioned dicks at least once?

[Babb'sBurstNad]

14 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

I think it is fundamentally an issue of rights and how we gain or lose them in society. In  the Uk we mostly start off with a set of rights and risk losing them through transgressions; driving bans, injunctions and ultimately imprisonment. It’s harder to gain rights though there are examples ; age related (drinking, voting etc), passing exams or exceptionally by becoming disabled (rights to benefits and parking). This system is largely regulated by legislation  though it is confused  by the European courts which may assert an individual’s rights in supremacy to national courts. Where Trans issues subvert this is the individual is seeking to gain certain  rights (access to changing rooms, sports etc) by self assertion rather than legislation. If we said this applied to disabled parking it would be absurd and so for trans rights. You can, post self identify maintain your right to freedom of expression, not to be harassed, assaulted etc but you can’t unanimously claim the rights that weren’t available to you before. Only Parliament can do that becuase that’s how British society works. 

An interesting point, I wonder if the chasm between the two poles in this debate stems from a growing lack of faith in the legislators themselves.

 

If you can't trust them to retain your rights, expand them, or even judge if someone is disabled enough to work, why would you pay them much heed?

 

The battleground seems to be Twitter, rather than the legislative chambers of government, and decisions made retrospectively after the loudest noise has been deemed the will of the people. It's all a bit unedifying really.

 

Dicks

[Rico1304]

Just now, Babb'sBurstNad said:

An interesting point, I wonder if the chasm between the two poles in this debate stems from a growing lack of faith in the legislators themselves.

 

If you can't trust them to retain your rights, expand them, or even judge if someone is disabled enough to work, why would you pay them much heed?

 

The battleground seems to be Twitter, rather than the legislative chambers of government, and decisions made retrospectively after the loudest noise has been deemed the will of the people. It's all a bit unedifying really.

 

Dicks

I’m afraid that’s not the case.  There have been several court cases arising from this ‘debate’ recently - all finding for gender critical beliefs.  The Cass inquiry will be damning and the Tavistock centre is being shut as it’s care was so woeful.  It’s the first NHS centre to shut after an investigation - even Alder Hey kept going after they kept parts of babies!  This isn’t being fought over Twitter, women are finding like minded people on Twitter as they are often to scared of saying this out loud and the impacts that would have on their lives.  7 women have been raped by men in prisons. That’s not Twtter is it?  I’m assuming you’re a bloke so the impacts on you will be minimal.  You probably wouldn’t notice.  If you were a woman who wanted a womens only hospital ward, prison or even FFS a womens only rape crisis centre you may have a different opinion.  Saying it’s limited to Twitter is insulting. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

I didn't say it's limited to Twitter.

 

But off you go mate.

 

For the record, I am a man, and the people I know most pro-Trans rights are women. 

 

Dicks 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Nice discussion while it lasted though.

[Rico1304]

16 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

I didn't say it's limited to Twitter.

 

But off you go mate.

 

For the record, I am a man, and the people I know most pro-Trans rights are women. 

 

Dicks 

 

16 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

I didn't say it's limited to Twitter.

 

But off you go mate.

 

For the record, I am a man, and the people I know most pro-Trans rights are women. 

 

Dicks 

Nice dicks. 
 

It’s weird that when you survey women, with more specific questions like ‘should TW play womens sports go to prisons use bathrooms etc’ they say no.  
 

Who wouldn’t support their rights? But why should they have womens rights? Which is what they want.  

[Babb'sBurstNad]

4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

 

Nice dicks. 
 

It’s weird that when you survey women, with more specific questions like ‘should TW play womens sports go to prisons use bathrooms etc’ they say no.  
 

Who wouldn’t support their rights? But why should they have womens rights? Which is what they want.  

Both points I have raised with them, as a dissenting voice.

 

You appear to have made your mind up about this subject though, and aren't looking for a discussion, so I'll bow out.

 

Enjoy your day.

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Both points I have raised with them, as a dissenting voice.

 

You appear to have made your mind up about this subject though, and aren't looking for a discussion, so I'll bow out.

 

Enjoy your day.

Fair enough. But you asking a few friends isn’t exactly a survey is it?  I mean you wouldn’t expect policy to be made on you asking a few mates?  Unless you’re Boris Johnson of course.  

[Babb'sBurstNad]

I said good day, Sir!

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

I said good day, Sir!

Ha ha

[Rico1304]

This is in no way related to the discussion above!

 

women swimmers - survey said no

womens cyclists - survey said no

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Family Fortunes has gone downhill 

[Rico1304]

Les: We asked 100 people ‘how would you identify a woman?’

 

Bzzzzzz

 

Les: Yes Sharon, what’s your answer?

Sharon: Her cock!  

 

[Rico1304]

Tavistock. 
 

 

[Captain Howdy]

That Tavistock shit is going full in the spotlight. It’s not going to be pretty. Massive scandal ahead. 

[Strontium]

5 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

That Tavistock shit is going full in the spotlight. It’s not going to be pretty. Massive scandal ahead. 

 

No doubt the taxpayer will have to foot the inevitable and considerable financial cost. Lucky us. I mean it's not like anyone has been warning about this ideology and this place for years.

[Oh Buoy]

If someone has ambiguous genitalia - where do they stand here? 

[Captain Howdy]

4 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

No doubt the taxpayer will have to foot the inevitable and considerable financial cost. Lucky us. I mean it's not like anyone has been warning about this ideology and this place for years.

Just looking into this, I’m wondering how serious this could get. Is jail a possibility for some? It seems really fucked up. 

[Red_or_Dead]

I wish I had a quid for every time @Rico1304 has posted in this thread; I might be close to paying my annual leccy bill.

[Rico1304]

51 minutes ago, Red_or_Dead said:

I wish I had a quid for every time @Rico1304 has posted in this thread; I might be close to paying my annual leccy bill.

If I was clever I’d do that Partridge shrug. 

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

That Tavistock shit is going full in the spotlight. It’s not going to be pretty. Massive scandal ahead. 

It’s child abuse. But remember I’m some kind of zealot or something.  
 

Imagine introducing say, kidney transplants and not following up on how the transplantees were doing, then claiming they were amazing.  Then imagine a whole group of people fawning all over them and calling anyone questioning it a bigot?  

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, Bot said:

If someone has ambiguous genitalia - where do they stand here? 

They have a DSD, they are either a female with a DSD or male with a DSD. It has nothing to do with being trans and they REALLY don’t like being lumped into this argument.