Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Captain Willard]

1 hour ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You’re doing that thing you (and Rico) do of putting words from your head into my mouth (or keyboard).

 

I've never said anything of the sort, and this predictably disingenuous response is actually the reason you don’t get a reply to your nonsense question.

 

if you can legitimately explain what it is to “feel” a race, then fill your boots. You can’t though, can you?

Sorry I confused you with AoT. Genuine mistake, The point still stands though, if the starting point is how somebody subjectively  ‘feels’ then how is gender different to race ? You can’t make a logical distinction because there isn’t one. All you can do is to say that ‘feeling like a women’ is somehow a legitimate feeling whereas feeling like a black women isn’t. I still don’t logically follow why not and calling it a nonsense question makes me think you don’t know the answer either. 

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, Captain Willard said:

Sorry I confused you with AoT. Genuine mistake, The point still stands though, if the starting point is how somebody subjectively  ‘feels’ then how is gender different to race ? You can’t make a logical distinction because there isn’t one. All you can do is to say that ‘feeling like a women’ is somehow a legitimate feeling whereas feeling like a black women isn’t. I still don’t logically follow why not and calling it a nonsense question makes me think you don’t know the answer either. 

How can someone know they feel like a woman?  They can certainly feeling uncomfortable in their own skin, but why would that make them a woman?  
 

It has to be down to feeling though, because for the entire thing to work the mantra TWAW has to be believed.  If you don’t then it can be challenged. If you accept that some blokes will take advantage it’s fair to ask for some kind of test or proof of commitment (which has to happen now under the GRA).  

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Captain Willard said:

Sorry I confused you with AoT. Genuine mistake, 

I upset Captain Howdy by confusing him with you once. I'm glad I'm not the only addlepated dotard around here.

[Bob]

1 hour ago, Captain Willard said:

Sorry I confused you with AoT. Genuine mistake, The point still stands though, if the starting point is how somebody subjectively  ‘feels’ then how is gender different to race ? You can’t make a logical distinction because there isn’t one. All you can do is to say that ‘feeling like a women’ is somehow a legitimate feeling whereas feeling like a black women isn’t. I still don’t logically follow why not and calling it a nonsense question makes me think you don’t know the answer either. 

As I asked, what is it to feel like a black person? Give me in anyway a response to that question and your question becomes live again. Without one it’s just posturing.

 

many years ago, to feel attracted to the same sex was unacceptable to many, but ultimately accepted as being possible. That seems to me to be similar with the feeling that trans people have about their gender.

 

I don’t see any case for the same being true of race, and so unless you’ve got examples or can elaborate, you don’t have anything more.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

How can someone know they feel like a woman?  

Shania Twain seems quite confident on that score.

[Rico1304]

23 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Shania Twain seems quite confident on that score.

I may have passed you by but she is a (fine figure of a) woman.  So she knows. 

[Captain Willard]

1 hour ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

As I asked, what is it to feel like a black person? Give me in anyway a response to that question and your question becomes live again. Without one it’s just posturing.

 

many years ago, to feel attracted to the same sex was unacceptable to many, but ultimately accepted as being possible. That seems to me to be similar with the feeling that trans people have about their gender.

 

I don’t see any case for the same being true of race, and so unless you’ve got examples or can elaborate, you don’t have anything more.

Just to be clear, are you saying that there is no such thing as a black identity and their lived experience is the same as white people ? Seriously? 
 

Or is it different and as a white person although I could imagine it and have a lot of sympathy for the negatives of that experience, I wouldn’t ever really know how it felt. I think it’s the latter and I think the same applies to gender.  

Secondly you refer to social acceptance as being the litmus test. I suspect most women, whilst sympathetic to trans men, don’t regard them as women and hence according to your litmus test, they aren’t. 

[Bob]

27 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

Just to be clear, are you saying that there is no such thing as a black identity and their lived experience is the same as white people ? Seriously? 

No, I’m not. Seriously. 
 

You’re nearly as bad as Rico. Read the words people write as they are written. Don’t assume interpretation of them to mean something else. Just read them. It doesn’t need to be difficult.

[Bob]

30 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

Secondly you refer to social acceptance as being the litmus test. 

No. I don’t.

 

Read the words people write as they are written. Don’t assume interpretation of them to mean something else. Just read them. It doesn’t need to be difficult.

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

No, I’m not. Seriously. 
 

You’re nearly as bad as Rico. Read the words people write as they are written. Don’t assume interpretation of them to mean something else. Just read them. It doesn’t need to be difficult.

I do get you mixed up with another nonsense poet on here sometimes. Especially when you both reply.  
 

Although being lectured on this subject is fucking hilarious.  
 

Is that a woman?  Complicated

Is that a woman with a cock and balls? Yes

Can someone change sex multiple times a day?  Yes 

I dont agree. BIGOT! 

[Captain Willard]

2 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

No. I don’t.

 

Read the words people write as they are written. Don’t assume interpretation of them to mean something else. Just read them. It doesn’t need to be difficult.

Well I’m confused now. To put it simply, do you feel that black people have different lived experiences to white people that cannot be appropriated however sympathetic one is ? I think that’s the case for both race and gender, do you agree or this there a difference ? 

[Bob]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

I do get you mixed up with another nonsense poet on here sometimes. Especially when you both reply.  
 

Although being lectured on this subject is fucking hilarious.  
 

Is that a woman?  Complicated

Is that a woman with a cock and balls? Yes

Can someone change sex multiple times a day?  Yes 

I dont agree. BIGOT! 

Keep on doing it. Keep on spouting the same crap. It doesn’t matter to me. I’ve not argued any of those shite points with you, no matter how many times you infer I have.

 

I’ve never said TWAW, despite you saying it as your bullshit first response to almost every post. 

 

You just make noise. That’s all. 
 

I don’t call you a bigot. Maybe I’ve said that some of what you’ve said is bigoted, although I can’t be sure if I’ve even said that.

 

I’ve called you out on your use of language though, and absolutely will do again when it feels right to do so, because on the topic I think you’re quite often an unpleasant dick.

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Keep on doing it. Keep on spouting the same crap. It doesn’t matter to me. I’ve not argued any of those shite points with you, no matter how many times you infer I have.

 

I’ve never said TWAW, despite you saying it as your bullshit first response to almost every post. 

 

You just make noise. That’s all. 
 

I don’t call you a bigot. Maybe I’ve said that some of what you’ve said is bigoted, although I can’t be sure if I’ve even said that.

 

I’ve called you out on your use of language though, and absolutely will do again when it feels right to do so, because on the topic I think you’re quite often an unpleasant dick.

Ha ha ha I bet you felt all warm inside writing that didn’t you.  
 

Please don’t call me out. It makes me…oh sorry.  It doesn’t do or mean anything.  

[Bob]

Just now, Captain Willard said:

Well I’m confused now. To put it simply, do you feel that black people have different lived experiences to white people that cannot be appropriated however sympathetic one is ? I think that’s the case for both race and gender, do you agree or this there a difference ? 

You’ve asked a question now that is different. And I am not unwilling to answer, but the answer is pretty bloody obvious without me having to do so.

 

it’s unrelated to the topic though. Do “black people” have a singular, shared, lived experience? Do those experiences look the same in finland as in the UK? the same in Rwanda as they do in USA? 

Is that what it is to be black? Or it is what it is to be persecuted and marginalised as a black person in those given settings?

[Bob]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Ha ha ha I bet you felt all warm inside writing that didn’t you.  
 

Please don’t call me out. It makes me…oh sorry.  It doesn’t do or mean anything.  

That’s not true. It doesn’t do or mean anything TO YOU. 
 

The way calling out a racist often doesn’t do or mean anything to them, but still has worth as an action.

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

That’s not true. It doesn’t do or mean anything TO YOU. 
 

The way calling out a racist often doesn’t do or mean anything to them, but still has worth as an action.

So you’re equating me stating a biological fact to racism? What a time to be alive. Why don’t you pop me on ignore to save your sensibilities?  

[Bob]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

So you’re equating me stating a biological fact to racism? What a time to be alive. Why don’t you pop me on ignore to save your sensibilities?  

Read my advice to The Captain, and read the words that are written. 

 

How is it you read all these reams and reams of articles, and yet struggle to read half a dozen lines on here so regularly?

 

If I wanted to pop you on ignore, dear, I would’ve.

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Read my advice to The Captain, and read the words that are written. 

 

How is it you read all these reams and reams of articles, and yet struggle to read half a dozen lines on here so regularly?

 

If I wanted to pop you on ignore, dear, I would’ve.

What fucking nonsense, you bringing racism into theirs is absolutely deliberate and it won’t work with me.  The reason being I don’t give a flying fuck what you think.  It’s like a superpower. 

[Bob]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

What fucking nonsense, you bringing racism into theirs is absolutely deliberate and it won’t work with me.  The reason being I don’t give a flying fuck what you think.  It’s like a superpower. 

And don’t you use that superpower so well. It’s admirable. Shame you can’t comprehend relatively simple sentences and have a habit of continually putting words in other people’s mouths on the internet otherwise you’d be a fucking hero to all.

[Captain Willard]

13 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You’ve asked a question now that is different. And I am not unwilling to answer, but the answer is pretty bloody obvious without me having to do so.

 

it’s unrelated to the topic though. Do “black people” have a singular, shared, lived experience? Do those experiences look the same in finland as in the UK? the same in Rwanda as they do in USA? 

Is that what it is to be black? Or it is what it is to be persecuted and marginalised as a black person in those given settings?

This feels like we are groping in the dark towards if not an agreement then at least an understanding of where we are relatively speaking.  We seem to agree that irrespective of their country or class etc, black people share some common thread of a lived historical experience in a world which has been controlled and dominated by white people and which white people cannot appropriate however sympathetic they are. You cannot  as a white personal ‘identify as black’ because you have no idea what it means however much you think you do. So far so good. I think where we disagree is I think women share a similar common historical and cultural thread of living in a patriarchal world and well meaning men cannot appropriate that either. You can’t become a women anymore than you can become black.  That’s I think the main point of difference between us and this is my point of contention, men are, sometimes with the threat of violence, trying to blur and ultimately erode the meaning of what it is to br a women by denying that this history and cultural experience exists. 

[Bob]

2 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

This feels like we are groping in the dark towards if not an agreement then at least an understanding of where we are relatively speaking.  We seem to agree that irrespective of their country or class etc, black people share some common thread of a lived historical experience in a world which has been controlled and dominated by white people and which white people cannot appropriate however sympathetic they are. You cannot  as a white personal ‘identify as black’ because you have no idea what it means however much you think you do. So far so good. I think where we disagree is I think women share a similar common historical and cultural thread of living in a patriarchal world and well meaning men cannot appropriate that either. You can’t become a women anymore than you can become black.  That’s I think the main point of difference between us and this is my point of contention, men are, sometimes with the threat of violence, trying to blur and ultimately erode the meaning of what it is to br a women by denying that this history and cultural experience exists. 

You’re continuing to misappropriate the two.

 

Trans women are not saying they feel like a woman because of how women have struggled against they patriarchy and they want to be part of that struggle.

[Rico1304]

8 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You’re continuing to misappropriate the two.

 

Trans women are not saying they feel like a woman because of how women have struggled against they patriarchy and they want to be part of that struggle.

Nothing says let’s fight the patriarchy like ‘suck my ladydick’. You are talking absolute nonsense 

[A Red]

This is just ridiculous. If a bloke decides he wants identify as a woman, good luck to him, I would have the good manners to refer to him as "she" and act as if she was a woman. Its just common decency.

 

However, when it comes down to it, she is a man. She cannot go to a womans prison, toilet or changing room etc nor compete against men where a mans physiology makes it unfair. 

 

Give trans people loads of respect, they deserve it, but lets not indulge in make believe.

 

[Bob]

2 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Nothing says let’s fight the patriarchy like ‘suck my ladydick’. You are talking absolute nonsense 

Again. Read the actual words. You’re making yourself appear quite unintelligent, which is unfortunate.

[Bob]

1 hour ago, A Red said:

This is just ridiculous. If a bloke decides he wants identify as a woman, good luck to him, I would have the good manners to refer to him as "she" and act as if she was a woman. Its just common decency.

 

However, when it comes down to it, she is a man. She cannot go to a womans prison, toilet or changing room etc nor compete against men where a mans physiology makes it unfair. 

 

Give trans people loads of respect, they deserve it, but lets not indulge in make believe.

 

Who says you can’t wish people all the luck in the world with a pat on the bottom for their efforts these days.