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Gym Beglin

Transgender stuff - what's going on?

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5 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You deliberately call trans women “blokes” and say there’s no such thing as trans women.

 

you’re not telling the truth in that post. 

I think some are blokes taking the piss, or do you believe that everyone who says they are is telling the truth? That simply can’t be true. Do you believe Pippa Bunce is a woman on the days she says she is and a man on the day he says he is? 

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1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

I think some are blokes taking the piss, or do you believe that everyone who says they are is telling the truth? That simply can’t be true. Do you believe Pippa Bunce is a woman on the days she says she is and a man on the day he says he is? 

You don’t only say that though. You call them “blokes”. Not some of them, not just the ones with beards, not just the ones in the Twitter posts you link. All of them.

 

that’s what betrays you.

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4 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You don’t only say that though. You call them “blokes”. Not some of them, not just the ones with beards, not just the ones in the Twitter posts you link. All of them.

 

that’s what betrays you.

Ha ha ha betrays me.  They are men ffs.  Do you believe they are women?  Like your mum?  It’s the emperor’s new clothes.  

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9 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

What is the loophole? There is no loophole.  
 

Waging war?  Mmm. Anyway, I’ve nothing against trans people. Go for your life. I just don’t think TW should get all the rights of women and that the law is currently about right.  Hardly controversial.   


I’ve got nothing against trans people. He said. 

8 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

I think you’ve missed my point.  I don’t think a lot of the examples I’ve highlighted are trans people.  They are blokes using it to take advantage of women, which is always gonna happen. For example I don’t think the majority of men in women’s prisons are trans, but the stupid way the rules are applied means that predatory men end up in their.  That doesn’t seem controversial at all to me. Like say in prison the  best food was halal so prisoners said they were Muslim to get the best food.   Pointing that out doesn’t make you a bigot.  But pointing out men will use the rules to get better treatment in prison or even have sex is bigoted? 


I don’t think a lot of the examples I’ve highlighted are trans people. He said. They are blokes using it to take advantage of women. He said.

10 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Ha ha ha betrays me.  They are men ffs.  Do you believe they are women?  Like your mum?  It’s the emperor’s new clothes.  

[all trans women] are men ffs. He said. Merely moments later.

 

In one page, there it is.

 

Fine, you believe there is no such thing as trans people and all people are simply men or women. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. 

 

but shouting it on the internet is transphobic and reasonably likely to be called. That’s all. 

 

And that’s why I used the term. It betrays you. And I’m out. Again.

 

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14 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:


I’ve got nothing against trans people. He said. 


I don’t think a lot of the examples I’ve highlighted are trans people. He said. They are blokes using it to take advantage of women. He said.

[all trans women] are men ffs. He said. Merely moments later.

 

In one page, there it is.

 

Fine, you believe there is no such thing as trans people and all people are simply men or women. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. 

 

but shouting it on the internet is transphobic and reasonably likely to be called. That’s all. 

 

And that’s why I used the term. It betrays you. And I’m out. Again.

 

Ha ha ha you’re out because it’s fucking bollocks.  
 

You never fucking answer the questions posed.  We are expected to take everyone on their word until they do something that people have been worried about and then it’s  ‘these aren’t trans people’. But self ID allows these things to happen. 
 

You think me saying ‘these are men’ is a gotcha. But they are men. It’s a legal fiction to grant them some of the rights of women.  Pretending it’s anything else is mental.  
 

Is Pippa a man or a woman? How does she switch? Well, she/he fucking doesn’t.  
 

If you were caught speeding in your Bentley and your defence was that it was a Ford Ka incapable of reaching 90mph would you expect anyone to believe you? 

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19 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Ha ha ha you’re out because it’s fucking bollocks.  
 

You never fucking answer the questions posed.  We are expected to take everyone on their word until they do something that people have been worried about and then it’s  ‘these aren’t trans people’. But self ID allows these things to happen. 
 

You think me saying ‘these are men’ is a gotcha. But they are men. It’s a legal fiction to grant them some of the rights of women.  Pretending it’s anything else is mental.  
 

Is Pippa a man or a woman? How does she switch? Well, she/he fucking doesn’t.  
 

If you were caught speeding in your Bentley and your defence was that it was a Ford Ka incapable of reaching 90mph would you expect anyone to believe you? 

I don’t answer your questions because every time you’ve asked one of me it’s been Irrelevant to the point I’ve made and a distraction. I’ve made one point, and it’s that your “I’ve nothing against trans people” line was bullshit. You then said as much yourself minutes later. It’s wasn’t a gotcha as everyone has read and seen it. It was just you being you. i still have no idea who pippa bunce is, and I still don’t need to know in order to say what I’ve said.

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12 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

I don’t answer your questions because every time you’ve asked one of me it’s been Irrelevant to the point I’ve made and a distraction. I’ve made one point, and it’s that your “I’ve nothing against trans people” line was bullshit. You then said as much yourself minutes later. It’s wasn’t a gotcha as everyone has read and seen it. It was just you being you. i still have no idea who pippa bunce is, and I still don’t need to know in order to say what I’ve said.

So you are like a superhero popping in to right the wrongs and then disappearing into the night?

 

Or just massively disingenuous and avoiding all the issues but sniping from the sidelines. 
 

Just fucking Google her and tell me what you think.  Or on the days he’s a bloke Google him and tell me what you think.  On any other subject you’d do that, and I bet you’ve done it here too, realised it’s a fucking shit show and decided to place it in the ‘too hard’ file. 

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1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

So you are like a superhero popping in to right the wrongs and then disappearing into the night?

 

Or just massively disingenuous and avoiding all the issues but sniping from the sidelines. 
 

Just fucking Google her and tell me what you think.  Or on the days he’s a bloke Google him and tell me what you think.  On any other subject you’d do that, and I bet you’ve done it here too, realised it’s a fucking shit show and decided to place it in the ‘too hard’ file. 

If all being a superhero takes is pointing out where a shouty man is lying to make his shouts more justifiable then it’s a pretty easy gig.

 

I don’t reckon I’m alone here, but I see the green WhatsApp logo avatar against this thread after a bump, and like the turning of the head toward the car crash despite not just knowing you shouldn’t but also slagging off the people ahead of you doing it, I open the thread. I mostly ignore it, like most seem to do too.

 

Every now and then, three times I think all told, I bite.

 

anyway, there no point is there. It’s my own fault. Screw it.

 

for the record, I don’t consider myself a hero at all for accepting that some people who were born men feel better being able to live as women, and that in doing so deserve better than to be called “blokes” by people like you.

 

Outside of that, I have fuck all else to say. 

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3 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

If all being a superhero takes is pointing out where a shouty man is lying to make his shouts more justifiable then it’s a pretty easy gig.

 

I don’t reckon I’m alone here, but I see the green WhatsApp logo avatar against this thread after a bump, and like the turning of the head toward the car crash despite not just knowing you shouldn’t but also slagging off the people ahead of you doing it, I open the thread. I mostly ignore it, like most seem to do too.

 

Every now and then, three times I think all told, I bite.

 

anyway, there no point is there. It’s my own fault. Screw it.

 

for the record, I don’t consider myself a hero at all for accepting that some people who were born men feel better being able to live as women, and that in doing so deserve better than to be called “blokes” by people like you.

 

Outside of that, I have fuck all else to say. 

Oops. I’m afraid you’ve failed the purity test. What you’ve just said is bigoted and you are a TERF. 

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8 hours ago, J-V said:

That’s him/her/it/whatever in the US special forces before a visit to Thailand…
 

 

XVBOAm8.jpg

I mean, she looks just like my mum in that photo.  

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Always knew I shouldn’t enter this thread. Proper disgusting transphobia in it. Picking the tiny, minuscule, issue that you’ll see in every walk of life, and then fixating on that to make it the reason why the overall is wrong so they can spread their misinformed hate.

 

This is the Man Utd fan spotting one idiot in the Kop doing the airplane arms and going online to declare ALL Liverpool fans take the piss out of Munich as they’re all scum. 
 

Shameful. I won’t be debating it as you can’t debate hate. But I’m calling it out, as we all should. 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyH said:

Always knew I shouldn’t enter this thread. Proper disgusting transphobia in it. Picking the tiny, minuscule, issue that you’ll see in every walk of life, and then fixating on that to make it the reason why the overall is wrong so they can spread their misinformed hate.

 

This is the Man Utd fan spotting one idiot in the Kop doing the airplane arms and going online to declare ALL Liverpool fans take the piss out of Munich as they’re all scum. 
 

Shameful. I won’t be debating it as you can’t debate hate. But I’m calling it out, as we all should. 

Phew. 

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17 hours ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You don’t only say that though. You call them “blokes”. Not some of them, not just the ones with beards, not just the ones in the Twitter posts you link. All of them.

 

that’s what betrays you.

 

I think this is being disingenuous to Rico here (I know, I know he's a cunt etc) but from what I can make out on this thread, he doesn't call all transgender women "blokes" he is calling out those who are abusing the position and struggle of actual trans people who are legitimately trans. Not labelling all trans folk as "blokes"

 

I actually agree with the examples he has used where it's a blatant abuse.

 

I don't think men, who are transitioning or have fully transitioned, should be competing against naturally born women. From my own understanding, a full transition will not stop biology and will not stop the muscles mass being developed in the same way it would have been before the transition.

 

I also believe that anyone who has not fully transitioned should be not using women's areas.

 

I believe you have the right to be whoever you want to be, but that should not be to the detriment of women's rights and safe spaces.

 

I know we can easily throw it lies and accusations about each other on here, but I think people are calling it wrong here if they think Rico is full of hate for Transgender people. He's rightly pointing out the issues women are having with this and with the infringement of their safe places by men who are clearly using this as a cover for their depraved behaviours,

 

It also belittles the actual issues that true trans people are facing, and women.

 

If someone wants to identify as a woman, then that is perfectly fine. If you have been banged up in prison for something that you have done and then change your gender to a woman, then I will be in the queue with thousands of others asking the same questions.

 

If my wife is to go to the baths for example with my kids, a 7-year-old lad and a nearly 3-year-old daughter and some fella who claims to be a woman starts walking round with their cock out, my wife would probably not feel safe there, also my kids could be effected and, I would also be angry.

 

Why would I be angry? Because a woman who was serious about transitioning would not behave in that way. They would more than likely not be using spaces like that until full transition had been completed.

 

The one set of rights that seems to be getting missed in all this, actual women's rights. And that fucking stinks.

 

Women have every right to feel safe in their spaces, men are already a fucking danger, why should they have any more danger to face from us fuckwits. I know a few people who work in the LGBTQ+ community in the city, and they all fear for the safety of women due to the instant acceptance from someone that is saying all of a sudden "Yeah, I am a bird now" and allowing them to use those spaces for women.

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

 

I think this is being disingenuous to Rico here (I know, I know he's a cunt etc) but from what I can make out on this thread, he doesn't call all transgender women "blokes" he is calling out those who are abusing the position and struggle of actual trans people who are legitimately trans. Not labelling all trans folk as "blokes"

 

I actually agree with the examples he has used where it's a blatant abuse.

 

I don't think men, who are transitioning or have fully transitioned, should be competing against naturally born women. From my own understanding, a full transition will not stop biology and will not stop the muscles mass being developed in the same way it would have been before the transition.

 

I also believe that anyone who has not fully transitioned should be not using women's areas.

 

I believe you have the right to be whoever you want to be, but that should not be to the detriment of women's rights and safe spaces.

 

I know we can easily throw it lies and accusations about each other on here, but I think people are calling it wrong here if they think Rico is full of hate for Transgender people. He's rightly pointing out the issues women are having with this and with the infringement of their safe places by men who are clearly using this as a cover for their depraved behaviours,

 

It also belittles the actual issues that true trans people are facing, and women.

 

If someone wants to identify as a woman, then that is perfectly fine. If you have been banged up in prison for something that you have done and then change your gender to a woman, then I will be in the queue with thousands of others asking the same questions.

 

If my wife is to go to the baths for example with my kids, a 7-year-old lad and a nearly 3-year-old daughter and some fella who claims to be a woman starts walking round with their cock out, my wife would probably not feel safe there, also my kids could be effected and, I would also be angry.

 

Why would I be angry? Because a woman who was serious about transitioning would not behave in that way. They would more than likely not be using spaces like that until full transition had been completed.

 

The one set of rights that seems to be getting missed in all this, actual women's rights. And that fucking stinks.

 

Women have every right to feel safe in their spaces, men are already a fucking danger, why should they have any more danger to face from us fuckwits. I know a few people who work in the LGBTQ+ community in the city, and they all fear for the safety of women due to the instant acceptance from someone that is saying all of a sudden "Yeah, I am a bird now" and allowing them to use those spaces for women.

 

 

 

Seems a fair enough view on the subject. Tbh I am glad I dont watch much UK news these days, it seems there is always somebody ready to be offended. What happened to common sense?

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14 minutes ago, CapeRed said:

Seems a fair enough view on the subject. Tbh I am glad I dont watch much UK news these days, it seems there is always somebody ready to be offended. What happened to common sense?

You tend see it more on Twitter and in the US more than over here (not that it isn't happening here) I don't watch the news any more, but pick up this stuff from the wife and podcasts/articles.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

 

I think this is being disingenuous to Rico here (I know, I know he's a cunt etc) but from what I can make out on this thread, he doesn't call all transgender women "blokes" he is calling out those who are abusing the position and struggle of actual trans people who are legitimately trans. Not labelling all trans folk as "blokes"

 

I actually agree with the examples he has used where it's a blatant abuse.

 

I don't think men, who are transitioning or have fully transitioned, should be competing against naturally born women. From my own understanding, a full transition will not stop biology and will not stop the muscles mass being developed in the same way it would have been before the transition.

 

I also believe that anyone who has not fully transitioned should be not using women's areas.

 

I believe you have the right to be whoever you want to be, but that should not be to the detriment of women's rights and safe spaces.

 

I know we can easily throw it lies and accusations about each other on here, but I think people are calling it wrong here if they think Rico is full of hate for Transgender people. He's rightly pointing out the issues women are having with this and with the infringement of their safe places by men who are clearly using this as a cover for their depraved behaviours,

 

It also belittles the actual issues that true trans people are facing, and women.

 

If someone wants to identify as a woman, then that is perfectly fine. If you have been banged up in prison for something that you have done and then change your gender to a woman, then I will be in the queue with thousands of others asking the same questions.

 

If my wife is to go to the baths for example with my kids, a 7-year-old lad and a nearly 3-year-old daughter and some fella who claims to be a woman starts walking round with their cock out, my wife would probably not feel safe there, also my kids could be effected and, I would also be angry.

 

Why would I be angry? Because a woman who was serious about transitioning would not behave in that way. They would more than likely not be using spaces like that until full transition had been completed.

 

The one set of rights that seems to be getting missed in all this, actual women's rights. And that fucking stinks.

 

Women have every right to feel safe in their spaces, men are already a fucking danger, why should they have any more danger to face from us fuckwits. I know a few people who work in the LGBTQ+ community in the city, and they all fear for the safety of women due to the instant acceptance from someone that is saying all of a sudden "Yeah, I am a bird now" and allowing them to use those spaces for women.

 

 

 

You’ve got two posts in one here, as far as I’m concerned.

 

one post, that shares your opinions on the issues Rico points out is absolutely fair and fine. I have some shared views, my thoughts differ a bit in places, and all fo what you’ve said is - to me - quite fair enough and reasonably stated.

 

The other post though you’ve got wrong. There is one reason alone that I’ve responded to Rico here and said what I’ve said, and that’s because that is the language her has used. And did so there.

 

he didn't say “some of them are men, taking the piss or taking advantage ffs” he said in direct response to my challenge “they [no subsection of, they, all of them] are men ffs”

 

he said it because it’s what he believes. He’s said it before. I’ve called him before for referring to trans women (not the men abusing the system, not ones with beards or in sport, just run of the mill trans women) as “blokes”. It’s his thing. It’s deliberate, and it’s transphobic.

 

it’s a big part of why I don’t answer him when he asks me questions about people I’ve never heard of as a means of distraction. His distraction shouldn’t be allowed.

 

if all he had a problem with was men abusing loopholes and doing things I think most of us can accept are/is wrong, I wouldn’t say a word.

 

in one encounter though he did admit if those theoretical trans women he calls blokes worked with him he’d call them whatever pronoun they wanted to their face. Which was bloody good of him. 
 

A bit like how that fella we all know wouldn’t use the P word to the Indian family down the street but just as a slang for the corner shop they run. Good egg.

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I don’t believe a trans person becomes the sex they want to be.  Their biology doesn’t change.  That’s just a fact. It may be uncomfortable for you but that’s on you.  So whilst I would use the pronouns it doesn’t change the fact. 
 

I mention specific people so I can’t be accused of making things up or exaggerating.  You chose not to look into the very specific cases because I think you’ll know that they make the argument look ridiculous. Pippa Bunce spends some of the week identifying as a woman and some as a man.  I asked if she is actually a woman when she says she is and vice versa. If you say ‘Yes’ then I think most right minded people would say ‘well that’s plainly not true’. It then means that being a woman is reduced to a feeling.  Which again is a bit (actually a lot) daft.  
Alex Drummond is a biological male, with a wife and kids, and a full beard who’s employed to tell young girls what it’s like to be a lesbian. He’s quite well known and again, most people would think that’s ridiculous.  
 

Who’d have thought that a small group of men could have such power. 
 

I think trans men are a subset of men, not a subset of women. What about you?  

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So what about the large (and growing) number of trans women, who don’t have (or want) beards, who don’t want to change to be male one day and female the next, who don’t want to take up elite level sport, and who don’t want to rape female prisoners. What about them?

 

they feel like women, and are transitioning to whatever degree they are comfortable, to being a woman and living as that person they currently are. 
 

what about them?

 

I don’t give a flying one about any of your wider points. If you expressed them in a way that wasn’t to ugly I might engage with them more and I’m sure I’m many cases agree with you, but that’s not why I’m here.

 

what about those trans women that want to be able to live in their current state and be recognised as existing without being referred to as “blokes” and having to piss in the men’s bogs? 
 

To you, by your words, they either don’t exist (which they do) or they don’t matter (which is pretty sad).

 

that’s what I’m bothered by. That’s all.

 

I think there’s a very complex and important conversation to be had about children in all of this.

 

outside of children, there’s a clear (but again complicated) need to prevent exploitation of this by individuals keen to exploit. Whether sport or life.

 

but alongside that there’s also a need to not be a prick towards a large and growing number of people that just want to be comfortable living their life without having to get your fucking approval.

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As I’ve said about a dozen times, go for their lives.  I hope they are happy in everything they do.  That ok for you? 
 

It’s almost like there should be a process for TW to follow in order to weed out the exploitative twats and keep women safe.  Maybe a certificate that enshrines their rights in law and protects TW and TM from inequality. You know, rather than letting any old cunt say the words and it happening.  

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I think we got to the point where there was broad agreement that women who used rape crisis centres should be able to insist on being examined, counselled etc by women. Well, seems that’s a bigoted position;

 

 

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