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Gym Beglin

Transgender stuff - what's going on?

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34 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

That Tik Tok stinks. She states her credentials; competes in olympic weightlifting, degree in exercise physiology, so you're expecting an informed take and then she just goes: "you people don't care about the struggle of female athletes anyway". Like oh, alright, that's useful.

Fucking right it’s useful. She was asked her opinion, she gave it. It was that the question is being asked insincerely. 

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31 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Why were there no 40+ women in this Olympic event?  Why are there no 40+ men in their event for that matter? 

There was a 46 year old in the gymnastics when the average age seems to be around early 20s. There was a 62 year old right near the top of the 3 day eventing places.

 

one of the gold medal winning triathletes was 33 and only got into the sport in her late 20s.

 

the gold medal winning women’s discus thrower used to be a dancer, not a discus thrower.

 

also... 

 

 

6A2F4ED0-E11C-4D4A-8DB9-9548B92ADD96.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Fucking right it’s useful. She was asked her opinion, she gave it. It was that the question is being asked insincerely. 

The question isn't insincere because there are competitive implications involved. She just ignored that and blamed people for even having the debate. If she feels that way, fine, but her opinion wasn't useful at all. It was pretty much irrelevant.

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Just now, 3 Stacks said:

The question isn't insincere because there are competitive implications involved. She just ignored that and blamed people for even having the debate. If she feels that way, fine, but her opinion wasn't useful at all. It was pretty much irrelevant.

You have no idea if the question was sincere or not, unless it was you that asked it. 
 

she prefaced her response by saying she’s been asked it many times before. Unless it was you doing the asking I’m happy to take her view on the matter over yours, to be honest.

 

I don’t believe most of the people asking the question genuinely give a fuck about whether it’s fair to have a transgender woman compete in women’s weightlifting. I honestly, genuinely don’t. 
 

I have no view on the matter myself, mainly because I’m not sufficiently informed to understand the discussion and also because I’m not sufficiently interested to become sufficiently informed.

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7 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You have no idea if the question was sincere or not, unless it was you that asked it. 
 

she prefaced her response by saying she’s been asked it many times before. Unless it was you doing the asking I’m happy to take her view on the matter over yours, to be honest.

 

I don’t believe most of the people asking the question genuinely give a fuck about whether it’s fair to have a transgender woman compete in women’s weightlifting. I honestly, genuinely don’t. 
 

I have no view on the matter myself, mainly because I’m not sufficiently informed to understand the discussion and also because I’m not sufficiently interested to become sufficiently informed.

I don't even have a view, I said it before, I just think her response is a cop out. She goes; "yeah, I compete and am a grad student, so I know the deal" and then proceeds to not talk about Hubbard but about the state of women's sports in general. Like ok, maybe you don't want to talk about it because you don't like the question but who gives a fuck about your degree then? 

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1 minute ago, 3 Stacks said:

I don't even have a view, I said it before, I just think her response is a cop out. She goes; "yeah, I compete and am a grad student, so I know the deal" and then proceeds to not talk about Hubbard but about the state of women's sports in general. Like ok, maybe you don't want to talk about it because you don't like the question but who gives a fuck about your degree then? 

I disagree but can see where you’re coming at it from. 
 

I think her having a level of expertise in the subject does add weight to her comments, even though she chooses to answer the way she does.

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2 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Nevertheless, good to hear that posting a lot in one thread is considered obsession now.

It is. Even if you lie about the thread giving you the "heebie-jeebies" but still post loads in it. 

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41 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

There was a 46 year old in the gymnastics when the average age seems to be around early 20s. There was a 62 year old right near the top of the 3 day eventing places.

 

one of the gold medal winning triathletes was 33 and only got into the sport in her late 20s.

 

the gold medal winning women’s discus thrower used to be a dancer, not a discus thrower.

 

also... 

 

 

6A2F4ED0-E11C-4D4A-8DB9-9548B92ADD96.jpeg

Three day eventing isn’t weightlifting. There have always been older participants in that sport - maybe because you need to be fucking loaded to do it.  
 

33 isn’t 43.  Will this 33 yr old be there in the Olympics in 7 yrs time? 
 

Ive no idea why you’ve included the discus thrower, nothing to do with this at all. 
 

37 isn’t 43. Again, that’s 2 Olympic cycles away.   
 

The gymnast is a complete outlier and hats off to her. 
 

Hubbard qualified for this games with a lift 285kg higher than the silver medalist today.  She wouldn’t have got near the qualification for the men.  
 

Are you saying she has no biological advantage?  

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12 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Three day eventing isn’t weightlifting. There have always been older participants in that sport - maybe because you need to be fucking loaded to do it.  
 

33 isn’t 43.  Will this 33 yr old be there in the Olympics in 7 yrs time? 
 

Ive no idea why you’ve included the discus thrower, nothing to do with this at all. 
 

37 isn’t 43. Again, that’s 2 Olympic cycles away.   
 

The gymnast is a complete outlier and hats off to her. 
 

Hubbard qualified for this games with a lift 285kg higher than the silver medalist today.  She wouldn’t have got near the qualification for the men.  
 

Are you saying she has no biological advantage?  

The gymnast is an outlier..

The champion is 6 years younger than this trans woman, but won. Not competed, not qualified, won. I’d suggest an outlier.

Phelps had biological advantages over the other men he swam against, an outlier.

 

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2 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

The gymnast is an outlier..

The champion is 6 years younger than this trans woman, but won. Not competed, not qualified, won. I’d suggest an outlier.

Phelps had biological advantages over the other men he swam against, an outlier.

 

Phelps swam against other men who also had biological advantages.  His times have now been beaten by other men with advantages.  
 

Hubbard had a biological advantage that no woman can ever have - male puberty. It’s fucking astounding that anyone can just write that off as being the same as long arms.  

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1998-2012: Laurel Hubbard fails to qualify for a single international men's tournament as a professional weightlifter
2013: Hubbard 'transitions' (aged 35)
2014-21: Hubbard qualifies for 11 international women's tournaments, including the Olympics

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14 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Phelps swam against other men who also had biological advantages.  His times have now been beaten by other men with advantages.  
 

Hubbard had a biological advantage that no woman can ever have - male puberty. It’s fucking astounding that anyone can just write that off as being the same as long arms.  

I didn’t mention long arms. Phelps was a freak of nature who produced practically no lactic acid, giving him increased endurance and reduced is needed recovery time. 

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4 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

I didn’t mention long arms. Phelps was a freak of nature who produced practically no lactic acid, giving him increased endurance and reduced is needed recovery time. 

And all but 4 of his records have been  broken.  He had an advantage over his category.  Hubbard having 35 years of testosterone is simply something that no woman could ever have.  Unless they doped, but then they’d be done for cheating.  

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I could get it if you thought TW should be allowed to compete as you believe it’s the kind thing to do, but to deny the male advantage is just crazy.  

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1 hour ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You have no idea if the question was sincere or not, unless it was you that asked it. 
 

she prefaced her response by saying she’s been asked it many times before. Unless it was you doing the asking I’m happy to take her view on the matter over yours, to be honest.

 

I don’t believe most of the people asking the question genuinely give a fuck about whether it’s fair to have a transgender woman compete in women’s weightlifting. I honestly, genuinely don’t. 
 

I have no view on the matter myself, mainly because I’m not sufficiently informed to understand the discussion and also because I’m not sufficiently interested to become sufficiently informed.

While I wouldn't call that tick tock post useless, as everyone is entitled to their view and no doubt she has a good perspective, her credentials would appear to have no bearing on the view expressed.  To me she seems more concerned with who's asking the question than the legitimacy of the question itself.

 

It sounds like maybe your own lack of interest influences your suggestion that most people aren't sincere in asking the question.  If you ignore the right wing culture war there are plenty, plenty of people asking the question sincerely.  Not least women, and women in sports.
 

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Imagine the scenes at the mens world nagging and pettiness finals when its discovered 1 of this years contestants used to be a woman

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5 minutes ago, Moo said:

While I wouldn't call that tick tock post useless, as everyone is entitled to their view and no doubt she has a good perspective, her credentials would appear to have no bearing on the view expressed.  To me she seems more concerned with who's asking the question than the legitimacy of the question itself.

 

It sounds like maybe your own lack of interest influences your suggestion that most people aren't sincere in asking the question.  If you ignore the right wing culture war there are plenty, plenty of people asking the question sincerely.  Not least women, and women in sports.
 

Fair.

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26 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

I didn’t mention long arms. Phelps was a freak of nature who produced practically no lactic acid, giving him increased endurance and reduced is needed recovery time. 

(apologies in advance, and once again, if my terminology is off)

 

So how is this remotely anything like post pubescent (born) "males" competing against (born) females?

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

And all but 4 of his records have been  broken.  He had an advantage over his category.  Hubbard having 35 years of testosterone is simply something that no woman could ever have.  Unless they doped, but then they’d be done for cheating.  

I was going to mention Semenya - but probably shouldn’t.

 

look, I don’t have anywhere near enough knowledge to continue in this discussion and have already got more drawn in than I wanted to, so I’ll once again now out.

 

final word though on my way, and really the reason I’ve felt moved to say anything at all.

 

I find the language and tone you adopt on this thread unnecessarily antagonistic and it doesn’t sit right with me. As I say I don’t have the knowledge to challenge your words, but I don’t like the way you’re saying them. 

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On 30/06/2021 at 13:47, Jockey said:

2006159157_Annotation2021-06-30134133.png.881ae65bc6a6786fe72755bda8ad29b3.png

 

This is a natural progression of be what you want. 

And everybody says he’s pretty fly for a white guy.

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3 minutes ago, Moo said:

(apologies in advance, and once again, if my terminology is off)

 

So how is this remotely anything like post pubescent (born) "males" competing against (born) females?

 

 

It’s not really. Rico shade focus on the weightlifters age and saying that was where the focus should be, not on the fact she failed to get anywhere near challenging for a medal.

 

I pointed out others elsewhere who were achieving things at older ages.

 

he called one an outlier.

 

phelps was also an outlier, and outliers exist.

 

that was all.

 

it was a moving target kinda thing.

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3 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

I was going to mention Semenya - but probably shouldn’t.

 

look, I don’t have anywhere near enough knowledge to continue in this discussion and have already got more drawn in than I wanted to, so I’ll once again now out.

 

final word though on my way, and really the reason I’ve felt moved to say anything at all.

 

I find the language and tone you adopt on this thread unnecessarily antagonistic and it doesn’t sit right with me. As I say I don’t have the knowledge to challenge your words, but I don’t like the way you’re saying them. 

Also fair.

 

I was going to say, after my little discussion with the same poster yesterday about changing rooms and bathrooms, the general discourse on this subject is far too polarised.  There can't possibly be a satisfactory resolution when there's people on both "sides" so entrenched.

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4 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

I was going to mention Semenya - but probably shouldn’t.

 

look, I don’t have anywhere near enough knowledge to continue in this discussion and have already got more drawn in than I wanted to, so I’ll once again now out.

 

final word though on my way, and really the reason I’ve felt moved to say anything at all.

 

I find the language and tone you adopt on this thread unnecessarily antagonistic and it doesn’t sit right with me. As I say I don’t have the knowledge to challenge your words, but I don’t like the way you’re saying them. 

semenya has a dsd that means she’s benefitted from testosterone due to her undescended testes. 
 

Why do you feel the need to challenge them then? You obviously have some kind of ideological standpoint on it. I guess a misplaced ‘kindness’.  
 

Oh well.  I guess I’ll live with that.  

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Just now, Rico1304 said:

semenya has a dsd that means she’s benefitted from testosterone due to her undescended testes. 
 

Why do you feel the need to challenge them then? You obviously have some kind of ideological standpoint on it. I guess a misplaced ‘kindness’.  
 

Oh well.  I guess I’ll live with that.  

I have answered that in my post. I feel compelled to challenge your words because the way you use them feels vindictive and makes me uncomfortable and my nature tends to adopt a defence in

such circumstances.

 

Normally when someone is speaking in the way you do on this matter, and the people on the receiving end are a minority of any form, opposing those views ends up having been the right thing to do.

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9 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

It’s not really. Rico shade focus on the weightlifters age and saying that was where the focus should be, not on the fact she failed to get anywhere near challenging for a medal.

 

I pointed out others elsewhere who were achieving things at older ages.

 

he called one an outlier.

 

phelps was also an outlier, and outliers exist.

 

that was all.

 

it was a moving target kinda thing.

Hold on, you gave examples of two who were 7 years younger than Hubbard and only one of them a weightlifter.  That’s 2 Olympic cycles. 
 

The gymnast is absolutely an outlier. 
 

Hubbard is an outlier by the fact she was a man until 7 years ago and had 35 years of testosterone.  He was rubbish at the sport he now excels at. If she’d have got her  qualifying lift she’d have won silver.  It’s fucking brilliant.  Here’s an old gymnast so let’s open up women’s sports. 

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