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Gym Beglin

Transgender stuff - what's going on?

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33 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Gender neutral public toilets and changing rooms aren’t as safe as single sex spaces.  It’s that simple.  Why should women give up their safety for men?  You said you were happy to learn, doesn’t seem like it to me.  

Re: learning I was talking about the terminology I was using as I know that's a sensitive area. 

Is there compelling evidence to suggest gender neutral spaces are not as safe as single sex spaces? I am happy to learn on that score too but not just because Rico1304 says so it must be true.

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4 minutes ago, Moo said:

Re: learning I was talking about the terminology I was using as I know that's a sensitive area. 

Is there compelling evidence to suggest gender neutral spaces are not as safe as single sex spaces? I am happy to learn on that score too but not just because Rico1304 says so it must be true.

Shouldn’t it be the other way round? Shouldn’t you have to provide compelling evidence that they are as safe as single sex spaces before blithely giving something away that wasn’t yours to begin with?  That’s the way things usually work isn’t it? 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html%3famp

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5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Shouldn’t it be the other way round? Shouldn’t you have to provide compelling evidence that they are as safe as single sex spaces before blithely giving something away that wasn’t yours to begin with?  That’s the way things usually work isn’t it? 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html%3famp

No I made a suggestion of what a solution could be. I didn't offer anything definitive, you did.  You told me that's not the right suggestion because...so I don't think when someone offers something definitive it's unreasonable for it to be demonstrated.

What isn't mine to give away, and why not? I'm suggesting a collective decision with a collective impact.

 

I'll have a read of that in a bit, thanks.

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4 minutes ago, Moo said:

No I made a suggestion of what a solution could be. I didn't offer anything definitive, you did.  You told me that's not the right suggestion because...so I don't think when someone offers something definitive it's unreasonable for it to be demonstrated.

What isn't mine to give away, and why not? I'm suggesting a collective decision with a collective impact.

 

I'll have a read of that in a bit, thanks.

No you aren’t. You already use bathrooms with men.  Your safety won’t be compromised by having women use those bathrooms too.  Men commit something like 96% of all sexual assaults and the vast majority of violent crime.  

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2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

No you aren’t. You already use bathrooms with men.  Your safety won’t be compromised by having women use those bathrooms too.  Men commit something like 96% of all sexual assaults and the vast majority of violent crime.  

Well I think you're assuming my gender there so that's not ideal in this scenario.

Had a little read of the article, it seems to concentrate on one study into swimming pool changing rooms, which is a good start so thanks but a little more reading required I think, hoping to find something more broad and if any discussion on if and how it could be policed.

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4 minutes ago, Moo said:

Well I think you're assuming my gender there so that's not ideal in this scenario.

Had a little read of the article, it seems to concentrate on one study into swimming pool changing rooms, which is a good start so thanks but a little more reading required I think, hoping to find something more broad and if any discussion on if and how it could be policed.

But you are a bloke aren’t you?
 

Can you point to any studies showing it’s no more dangerous?   You are suggesting a change therefore surely the onus is on you to show it’s safe.

 

Pure common sense tells you it isn’t as safe.   

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3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

But you are a bloke aren’t you?
 

Can you point to any studies showing it’s no more dangerous?   You are suggesting a change therefore surely the onus is on you to show it’s safe.

 

Pure common sense tells you it isn’t as safe.   

That's not really any of your business, but if I said no I'm not a bloke would it make a difference?

 

And no of course I can't point to any studies I've read in the 10 minutes since I posted saying I need to do more reading showing it's no more dangerous.

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8 minutes ago, Moo said:

That's not really any of your business, but if I said no I'm not a bloke would it make a difference?

 

And no of course I can't point to any studies I've read in the 10 minutes since I posted saying I need to do more reading showing it's no more dangerous.

You said I’d assumed your gender (I haven’t, I’ve assumed your sex), so I asked. Can’t see any drama there to be honest.  

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I sometimes wonder about women only co-working spaces that were all the rage in the US some five or so years ago, what is their policy on transgender biological males. 

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1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

You said I’d assumed your gender (I haven’t, I’ve assumed your sex), so I asked. Can’t see any drama there to be honest.  

No drama from my side.  You suggested I was giving away something that was not mine to give away, then said I already use bathrooms with men. So it seems like the perspective of the person speaking is important to you, which is fair enough. 

So if I said I wasn't a bloke would it make any difference to how you feel about my opinions/suggestions on this subject?

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18 minutes ago, Moo said:

No drama from my side.  You suggested I was giving away something that was not mine to give away, then said I already use bathrooms with men. So it seems like the perspective of the person speaking is important to you, which is fair enough. 

So if I said I wasn't a bloke would it make any difference to how you feel about my opinions/suggestions on this subject?

None at all.  If you are a woman and you’ve survived 15 yrs on here hats off to you.  

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@Rico1304 I don’t wanna get into an argument with you on this, and have left well alone in general, but I’d like to ask a 2 part question which is absolutely genuine and without hidden agenda, and would appreciate a response in that spirit.

 

When you refer to trans women as ‘blokes’, is that with intent to offend?

 

if not, why do you not think it is offensive to anyone?

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8 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

@Rico1304 I don’t wanna get into an argument with you on this, and have left well alone in general, but I’d like to ask a 2 part question which is absolutely genuine and without hidden agenda, and would appreciate a response in that spirit.

 

When you refer to trans women as ‘blokes’, is that with intent to offend?

 

if not, why do you not think it is offensive to anyone?

Who am I offending?   If there are any trans people on here I would refer to them by their preferred pronouns. 
 

But M2F remain men no matter what pronouns they ask for.  There is a legal fiction around women with a GRC but they don’t magically become women. Sex is immutable. 
 

In the same spirit do you believe Trans Women are Women? And if so what is your definition of ‘woman’? 

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1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

Who am I offending?   If there are any trans people on here I would refer to them by their preferred pronouns. 
 

But M2F remain men no matter what pronouns they ask for.  There is a legal fiction around women with a GRC but they don’t magically become women. Sex is immutable. 

You’ve not answered my question. If I refer to a black person using the n word amongst a group of white people, it’s still offensive and I know it.

 

im not making that comparison necessarily, I’m simply pointing out that you believing (without being able to be certain, as this is a public forum) there not to be any trans women here does noy

excuse whether it may offend someone.

 

so I’d like to ask the exact same question(s) again. That’ll be me done then.

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6 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Who am I offending?   If there are any trans people on here I would refer to them by their preferred pronouns. 
 

But M2F remain men no matter what pronouns they ask for.  There is a legal fiction around women with a GRC but they don’t magically become women. Sex is immutable. 
 

In the same spirit do you believe Trans Women are Women? And if so what is your definition of ‘woman’? 

You added the question in edit so I didn’t see it before. I personally know two trans women, and am absolutely happy to recognise them as trans women, as they happen to recognise themselves. Therefore I’d say the same generally to the rest of the worlds population of trans women, I reckon.

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12 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You’ve not answered my question. If I refer to a black person using the n word amongst a group of white people, it’s still offensive and I know it.

 

im not making that comparison necessarily, I’m simply pointing out that you believing (without being able to be certain, as this is a public forum) there not to be any trans women here does noy

excuse whether it may offend someone.

 

so I’d like to ask the exact same question(s) again. That’ll be me done then.

If you are worried about being offended on the GF then it may not be the right place for you. 
 

I’ve absolutely no idea why you brought the n word into it and then backed away so quickly. Although you are correct in that there is absolutely no similarity in the situation.  It’s crazy to think there is.  
 

They are men, pure and simple.  If that offends you I can’t help.  

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13 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You added the question in edit so I didn’t see it before. I personally know two trans women, and am absolutely happy to recognise them as trans women, as they happen to recognise themselves. Therefore I’d say the same generally to the rest of the worlds population of trans women, I reckon.

By not recognising them as ‘women’ you are offending a huge number of TW. You seem to be ok with that. 

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1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

If you are worried about being offended on the GF then it may not be the right place for you. 
 

I’ve absolutely no idea why you brought the n word into it and then backed away so quickly. Although you are correct in that there is absolutely no similarity in the situation.  It’s crazy to think there is.  
 

They are men, pure and simple.  If that offends you I can’t help.  

You’ve not answered that time either. Whether or not I’m offended isn’t within the question. Whether “they” are reading your musings isn’t either. 
 

my question remains...

 

1. When you refer to trans women as ‘blokes’, is that with intent to offend? (Note I refer to the use of the term ‘blokes’ rather than men, which appears deliberate and is the reason for me asking the question)

 

2. if not, why do you not think it is offensive to anyone?

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3 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

I doubt I am, honestly.

Mmm, why do you doubt that?  You aren’t following the mantra TWAW and that makes you a bigot. 

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4 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You’ve not answered that time either. Whether or not I’m offended isn’t within the question. Whether “they” are reading your musings isn’t either. 
 

my question remains...

 

1. When you refer to trans women as ‘blokes’, is that with intent to offend? (Note I refer to the use of the term ‘blokes’ rather than men, which appears deliberate and is the reason for me asking the question)

 

2. if not, why do you not think it is offensive to anyone?

I use blokes as thats  how I refer to men. I can use men if you want.  No intention to offend.  Just a noun. 
 

i don’t care if it’s offensive to anyone. It’s impossible to not offend anyone. 

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10 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I use blokes as thats  how I refer to men. I can use men if you want.  No intention to offend.  Just a noun. 
 

i don’t care if it’s offensive to anyone. It’s impossible to not offend anyone. 

 That’ll do. Ta.

 

I’m out.

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