Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Boss]

5 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Tell you what, if you think it’s safe and that there will be no harm then the burden of proof is on you.  Prove transwomen don’t offend at the same rate as men and then prove men won’t take advantage. 

Actually, the burden of proof is on you. I'm saying transwomen just want to use the bathroom to go for a shit or a piss - which is what 99.99% of sane human beings use a bathroom for. You're the one inferring transwomen are there to rape other women, so the onus is on you to prove those claims - and not with some random Breitbart article about a sex offender pretending to be a woman. I mean with statistical data. 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, Boss said:

Actually, the burden of proof is on you. I'm saying transwomen just want to use the bathroom to go for a shit or a piss - which is what 99.99% of sane human beings use a bathroom for. You're the one inferring transwomen are there to rape other women, so the onus is on you to prove those claims - and not with some random Breitbart article about a sex offender pretending to be a woman. I mean with statistical data. 

Oh do fuck off. You want the change, Im advocating it staying the same. You want the change you have to prove it’s safe, no me prove it’s dangerous.  
 

Men’s rights activist strikes again.  

[Boss]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

Oh do fuck off. You want the change, Im advocating it staying the same. You want the change you have to prove it’s safe, no me prove it’s dangerous.  
 

Men’s rights activist strikes again.  

 

Such a rude and disrespectful person. 

[Pidge]

Is a transwoman using a woman's toilet unlawful? I know denying access can be if deemed discriminatory. Not sure who's asking for the change here.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Putting your fingers in your ears and shouting doesn’t make it go away. 
 

Let me ask you, if sex isn’t binary have any of the blokes you know ever worried about getting pregnant? 

Again. Stupidity like this makes it clear that you're not worth discussing this with.

[Rico1304]

10 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Is a transwoman using a woman's toilet unlawful? I know denying access can be if deemed discriminatory. Not sure who's asking for the change here.

If she’s got GRC there’s no issue.  If she’s not then she’s a man in the eyes of the law.  

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Again. Stupidity like this makes it clear that you're not worth discussing this with.

All I’m doing is playing your bullshit back to you.  

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Pidge said:

How does your employer monitor racial inclusion?

Not very well (in the case of my employer).

[Pidge]

5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

If she’s got GRC there’s no issue.  If she’s not then she’s a man in the eyes of the law.  

Where in the law is that stated?

[Rico1304]

14 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Where in the law is that stated?

Sex is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act so womens only toilets are allowed. 
 

When a GRC is awarded the TW becomes a ‘woman’ in the eyes of the law apart from a very limited number of circumstances where they can be excluded. This is places like rape crises centres, certain jobs or places of responsibility.  There’s a row a few pages back where someone claims this isn’t the case but they were wrong.  

[AngryOfTuebrook]

26 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

All I’m doing is playing your bullshit back to you.  

How so?

[Pidge]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Sex is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act so womens only toilets are allowed. 

Yes, and it would be discriminatory to not provide facilities for women to use, but I don't think it makes using the toilet a crime.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Is it illegal for an able bodied man to use the disabled bogs?

 

Asking for a friend.

[skend04]

47 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Is it illegal for an able bodied man to use the disabled bogs?

 

Asking for a friend.

Nope, it's perfectly fine. You might, sorry, your friend might get dogs abuse from disabled people but who gives a shit about them. Crack on.

[Rico1304]

56 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Yes, and it would be discriminatory to not provide facilities for women to use, but I don't think it makes using the toilet a crime.

It isn’t a crime, but the owners can stop men going in - say in a pub or club scenario and if a man goes in a woman can rightly start telling him to fuck off out and make a scene. 

[Rico1304]

There’s a new podcast on BBC sounds on this subject.  
 

Halfway through this episode and it sounds ok so far. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09yk5mm

 

Just got the to ‘What does that mean?’ bit.  I doubt many will get that far but if he doesn’t fucking know… 15mins in 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Looks like Labour have lost Rico's vote.

 

[Rico1304]

7 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Looks like Labour have lost Rico's vote.

 

She’s done really well to be so wrong in very short letter. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

46 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

She’s done really well to be so wrong in very short letter. 

She needs a big clever man like you to explain how to protect women.

[Rico1304]

17 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

She needs a big clever man like you to explain how to protect women.

Oh I am a woman today. Felt it coming on about  11 last night. Who knows how long it’ll last. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

11 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

She needs a big clever man like you to explain how to protect women.

Well she’s a concern herself, in opposing the LGB Alliance stance on puberty blockers for adolescents. That’s dangerous and something Labour should be opposing. And using Gillick competence as an argument in using puberty blockers is fixing stupid as well. 
 

Are they wrong and sex isn’t binary?

 

Are they wrong here?

 

There was a festival in America, solely a lesbian event. And the Trans community got a big shit on because they weren’t invited. They created a shit load of aggro because they wouldn’t accept that lesbians aren’t into trans-women and didn’t want anyone who was not a lesbian to be at their lesbian festival. 
 

It seems a lot of those trying to push for trans people to live fairly and safely, are willing to sacrifice other parts of the supposed same Communities to get their way.
 

Get in line there is a queue.
 

Starting with black people and women getting the equality they deserve and have fought longer and harder for.  

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

35 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Well she’s a concern herself, in opposing the LGB Alliance stance on puberty blockers for adolescents. That’s dangerous and something Labour should be opposing. And using Gillick competence as an argument in using puberty blockers is fixing stupid as well. 
 

Are they wrong and sex isn’t binary?

 

Are they wrong here?

 

There was a festival in America, solely a lesbian event. And the Trans community got a big shit on because they weren’t invited. They created a shit load of aggro because they wouldn’t accept that lesbians aren’t into trans-women and didn’t want anyone who was not a lesbian to be at their lesbian festival. 
 

It seems a lot of those trying to push for trans people to live fairly and safely, are willing to sacrifice other parts of the supposed same Communities to get their way.
 

Get in line there is a queue.
 

Starting with black people and women getting the equality they deserve and have fought longer and harder for.  

 

No need to queue. Everyone should be given basic human rights here and now.

 

Anyone who organises an event aimed at excluding trans people is just plain wrong (because discrimination, exclusion and bigotry are wrong); most women and most lesbians could tell you that. Protesting such an event would be clearly justified (provided the protests were proportionate and non-violent). The vast majority of people campaigning for trans rights also campaign for the rights of women, of LGB people, of ethnic minorities, of disabled people, etc (not least because so many of them also face discrimination on those grounds).

 

The bottom line about human biology sex is that it is not binary. There are several different determinants of sex. In most - but not all - people, these all line up, so the person is clearly 100% male or 100% female and they can live comfortably (or less comfortably, if they're women) in a society that has always been structured along strict, binary gender lines.

 

The key point is that not all people are born neatly into a male or female box. What do we do with the people who don't fit? The traditional approach has been to force them into one box or the other, according to whether they've got a cock or a minge. That approach leads to devastating physical and mental health professionals for those people. Society can and should do better than that.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

46 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

No need to queue. Everyone should be given basic human rights here and now.

Well it seems that Trans rights outweighs women’s rights as their cause is deemed more important than say black people getting equal rights. Dave Chappelle (one of many examples in the world) covers this brilliantly in his latest special. 
 

And the TWAW activists and supporters now accuse him of being a white supremacist as well as transphobe. 

 

47 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The bottom line about human biology sex is that it is not binary. There are several different determinants of sex. In most - but not all - people, these all line up, so the person is clearly 100% male or 100% female and they can live comfortably (or less comfortably, if they're women) in a society that has always been structured along strict, binary gender lines.

Sex is male or female. 
 

Gender, is where the different determinants come in. X, XY, XXX, XXY etc.  I don’t argue against that as that is where the self identify comes in to play more.
 

My issue is the denial of biological sex.

47 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The key point is that not all people are born neatly into a male or female box. What do we do with the people who don't fit? The traditional approach has been to force them into one box or the other, according to whether they've got a cock or a minge. That approach leads to devastating physical and mental health professionals for those people. Society can and should do better than that.

But we are predominantly born as a male or female. Of course Hermaphrodites also exist. 
 

If it’s not about putting people into a box, why have they created 72 other boxes for gender to be put in? So people are being forced into a box anyway. 
 

The definition of woman is, “a female human being”. How can that definition ever be changed? And how are women just expected to get on with it?

 

Females have reproduction organs and give birth. Trans women do not and cannot. Biologically they are not a woman. Harsh, but the truth of reality.
 

I’m all in favour of people finding who they truly are and being comfortable in living their life and being happy, but you can’t go trampling on other minorities to get your way.
 

And you can’t expect people to disregard the biological truth for a new interpretation without strong challenge. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

 

Anyone who organises an event aimed at excluding trans people is just plain wrong (because discrimination, exclusion and bigotry are wrong); most women and most lesbians could tell you that. Protesting such an event would be clearly justified (provided the protests were proportionate and non-violent). The vast majority of people campaigning for trans rights also campaign for the rights of women, of LGB people, of ethnic minorities, of disabled people, etc (not least because so many of them also face discrimination on those grounds).

It was a festival that was forced to shut down after 40 years.
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Womyn's_Music_Festival?wprov=sfti1

 

[Rico1304]

So say a group of lesbians shouldn’t be able to have an event that excludes men? Makes perfect sense to me.  
 

AoT talking complete bollocks again. Sex is binary, the existence of DSD doesn’t disprove this and people with DSDs really don’t like their conditions being used this way.  A manly man and an effeminate man are still men.  Spectrum my arse.