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Transgender stuff - what's going on?


Gym Beglin
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54 minutes ago, mars said:

I've answered the PO question, Rico - it is a management issue and I have already said that this needs to be discussed with staff; an accommodation would need to be made for POs who object. However, looks like I'm misinformed:

"Prison officers are not allowed to conduct intimate searches." 

http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/ForPrisonersFamilies/PrisonerInformationPages/Searchingoftheperson

 

Also: Searching arrangements for transgender people in prison

 

Annex H includes searching arrangements for transgender people in prison.

It states that a voluntary agreement should be put in place as to how this should be done.

If you have applied for or have obtained legal recognition of the gender with which you identify you must be searched in accordance with this unless alternative arrangements are agreed.

Searches must not be conducted to determine gender.

 

So I'm guessing that the prison doctor would be the best option? Of course this is for the UK. America is different and stories like this suggest that the system needs to address how searching is carried out

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/nyregion/strip-search-new-york-city-jails-lawsuits.html

 

This article suggests that "strip searches" are often carried out by medical staff, and in fact CT scanners have been used:

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2019/apr/2/strip-and-body-cavity-searches-looking-contraband-all-wrong-places/

 

As for the USA election, find me the part in this that says men will be allowed to self ID as women

https://joebiden.com/lgbtq-policy/

(I have read most of it but also did a search for ID and self - no results). I can't see anything in there that puts women at risk. 

And you have to factor in Kamala Harris. Here are some choice quotes from Trump's VP

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/mike-pence-women-quotes-kamala-harris-debate-b724539.html

 

The 2020 election must have been horrible for conservative feminists but I reject your claim that Trump was the lesser of two evils.

Maybe a less controversial solution would be anyone with a penis has to be searched by men and vice versa.  I mean, the prisoners wouldn’t have a choice in a medical situation would they? 
 

I’ve no idea why you are showing me the annex H stuff, I linked you to that yesterday.  It’s almost like...

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2 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Hold on.  The election was a two horse race, it was either Biden or Trump.  
 

Trump is (IMO) a serial sexual abuser

Biden will implement (and has started) policies that many women feel will put thousands of women at risk of serious sexual assault and rape.  
 

Now, given those options is it not reasonable to vote for Trump?  The least shit option. 
 

And no comment on the fact women PO’s never have to strip search men now?  

 

Trump is never the least shit option. Not even close. He's an absolute disgrace of a human who isn't fit to manage a fucking Starbucks.

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1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

Maybe a less controversial solution would be anyone with a penis has to be searched by men and vice versa.  I mean, the prisoners wouldn’t have a choice in a medical situation would they? 
 

I’ve no idea why you are showing me the annex H stuff, I linked you to that yesterday.  It’s almost like...

I was making the point that a doctor might be the best solution. I confess I missed that post with the link. I've read it now - I'm surprised it refers to only a visual inspection and that annex J states that a prisoner with male genitalia's body will not be touched during a full search. 

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I've incurred the wrath of Trans Twitter by daring to suggest that The Matrix wasn't a Trans allegory when it was originally released but, since it's now mainstream it's being read that way.

 

Whilst I know that the directors have since come out as trans I didn't sit there in 1999 thinking "Wow, this is such a trans film"

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40 minutes ago, Special K said:

I've incurred the wrath of Trans Twitter by daring to suggest that The Matrix wasn't a Trans allegory when it was originally released but, since it's now mainstream it's being read that way.

 

Whilst I know that the directors have since come out as trans I didn't sit there in 1999 thinking "Wow, this is such a trans film"

Lily Wachowski is on record saying that it is a trans metaphor. Since she is one of the creators its not really accurate to say "it's being read that way". 

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29 minutes ago, scottthecanuck said:

Lily Wachowski is on record saying that it is a trans metaphor. Since she is one of the creators its not really accurate to say "it's being read that way". 

I know. My point is that back in 1999 I don't recall anyone saying anything about it being a trans film. I read hundreds of theories and debates about it, I was obsessed with it. Trans allegory never came up once.

 

And, to be perfectly honest, I'm enjoying winding up furries

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23 minutes ago, Special K said:

I know. My point is that back in 1999 I don't recall anyone saying anything about it being a trans film. I read hundreds of theories and debates about it, I was obsessed with it. Trans allegory never came up once.

 

 

Fair enough, I can certainly agree with that. 

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1 hour ago, scottthecanuck said:

Lily Wachowski is on record saying that it is a trans metaphor. Since she is one of the creators its not really accurate to say "it's being read that way". 

Can someone explain this?

It makes sense if you argue that it's a Buddhism metaphor, maybe? "There is no spoon" and coming to terms with the idea that perception isn't reality, etc.

But the metaphor collapses immediately as a trans thing. Maybe you can say that realising you're in the wrong body is like Neo waking up in a vat of goo, but then ... where does it go from there? "Now that you've realised you're really a man in a woman's body, you can move things with your mind, and also learn kung fu in seconds." Er, what now?

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14 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

Can someone explain this?

It makes sense if you argue that it's a Buddhism metaphor, maybe? "There is no spoon" and coming to terms with the idea that perception isn't reality, etc.

But the metaphor collapses immediately as a trans thing. Maybe you can say that realising you're in the wrong body is like Neo waking up in a vat of goo, but then ... where does it go from there? "Now that you've realised you're really a man in a woman's body, you can move things with your mind, and also learn kung fu in seconds." Er, what now?

 

I thought it was pretty well known that is was based around Gnosticism, at least that was the was claim around the time.

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Now this is bullshit

When it comes to physical sports it's nuts, they hold such a advantage over female athletes. Now she may or may not medal and will have had testosterone suppression therapy but spent her first 35 years building muscle and bone as a man. So it's not a level playong field at all. 

 

Trans weightlifter Laurel Hubbard set to make history at Tokyo Olympics

Covid-amended rules mean qualification effectively ensured

New Zealander to become first transgender Olympic athleHistory and controversy is expected to be made at the Tokyo Olympics this summer after the transgender weightlifter Laurel Hubbard was effectively guaranteed a place in the women’s super heavyweight category.

 

While the 43-year-old has not yet been named in the New Zealand team, an International Weightlifting Federation insider confirmed to the Guardian that she would automatically qualify because of amended rules approved by the International Olympic CommitteThe insider said that while teams did not have to be named until 5 July, under the new qualification rules, which had come into effect after several competitions were lost because of the Covid-19 pandemic, Hubbard was sure of a place in Tokyo if fit.means Hubbard, who won silver at the 2017 world championships and was sixth after a severe injury in 2019, is almost certain to become the first transgender athlete to compete at an Olympics. And while she will be the oldest weightlifter at the Games, she will also have a genuine chance of a medal given her qualifying lifts rank her fourth out of the 14 qualifiers in the 87kg-plus super heavyweight category for Tokyo.

 

However, her selection will sharply divide opinion between those who see it as an enormous step forward for trans athletes and others who insist she benefits from an unfair advantage.

 

Under IOC guidelines, issued in November 2015, athletes who transition from male to female can compete in the women’s category without requiring surgery to remove their testes provided their total testosterone level in serum is kept below 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months – a rule followed by the IWF.

 

However, a number of scientific papers have recently shown people who have undergone male puberty retain significant advantages in power and strength even after taking medication to suppress their testosterone levels. Hubbard lived as a male for 35 years, and did not compete in international weightlifting. But since transitioning in 2012 she has won several elite titles.

 

In an interview after finishing second in the world championships in 2017, Hubbard said: “The rules that enabled me to compete first went into effect in 2003.

 

“They are known as the Stockholm consensus with the IOC but I think even 10 years ago the world perhaps wasn’t ready for an athlete like myself – and perhaps it is not ready now. But I got the sense at least that people were willing to consider me for these competitions and it seemed like the right time to put the boots on and hit the Hubbard had feared her career was over after sustaining an elbow injury at the Commonwealth Games in 2018 only to come back to near her best a year later. She is now 16th in the world rankings, but at least six of those above her will be absent because of IWF rules that limit nations to only one athlete per category, and she is certain to get the second Oceania spot behind Feagaiga Stowers of Samoa.

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14 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

I thought it was pretty well known that is was based around Gnosticism, at least that was the was claim around the time.

That is Baudrillard, was my first thought when I saw it. And Hugo Boss.

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There’s something strange about changing how you talk about the (roughly) 99.9% of mother’s just in case you offend somebody in the 0.01% who was born a biological female and rather than identifying as a woman identifies as a man. I’d say that more females will be offended by being called a ‘birthing person’ rather than, ya know, a woman or a female. 

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31 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

"Birthing people"

 

 

Fucking hell had to double back

Not the birthday person shite but reading 

 

My child almost became a spastic. 

 

 

Thought fuck me calling woman birthday people and using the term spastic. 

 

Mind you a old guy I used to work with still used the term Mongol

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4 minutes ago, Numero said:

There’s something strange about changing how you talk about the (roughly) 99.9% of mother’s just in case you offend somebody in the 0.01% who was born a biological female and rather than identifying as a woman identifies as a man. I’d say that more females will be offended by being called a ‘birthing person’ rather than, ya know, a woman or a female. 

I thought it was the other way around? That she was probably trying not to offend men who transitioned and can't have kids because they don't have the plumbing, so there's "women" which anyone can be or "birthing people" who only people who give birth can be. But they too can be men if they transition, I think. 

 

It's all bollocks anyway. We have always been at war with Erasure.

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8 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I thought it was the other way around? That she was probably trying not to offend men who transitioned and can't have kids because they don't have the plumbing, so there's "women" which anyone can be or "birthing people" who only people who give birth can be. But they too can be men if they transition, I think. 

 

It's all bollocks anyway. We have always been at war with Erasure.

Pretty sure she talks about it in that video and later in her Twitter thread. I think it’s the females who are now identifying as men who are still capable of being a person who gives birth. 

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