Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Jose Jones]

Just going with the all trans people are paedos angle a couple of those ones there.

 

[mars]

On 02/05/2021 at 23:06, Rico1304 said:

All the LGBT groups in the U.K. are pushing for self ID.  
 

Here’s the answers in order: 

 

Trans women aren’t women. But I think maintaining a legal fiction to a limited number of women’s rights is the fair thing to do for those that have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria and qualified for a GRC is the right thing to do. 
 

I am concerned that the affirmation model of GD is being pushed when over 80% of kids with early onset GD end up as healthy, happy gay men or women.  
 

I think self ID will create an environment where predatory men will take advantage and result in women being unsafe. 
 

(you need to tell me what is transphobic- I mean, as of today Caitlyn Jenner is transphobic) 

 

I don’t believe I should be forced to use language I don’t believe in. But, I wouldn’t deliberately misgender someone. 
 

I don’t think men should be allowed to move into women’s prisons 

 

I don’t believe women should be forced to accommodate men’s preferences. 
 

Can I ask you one?  
 

If a trans women in a security situation demands she should be searched by a woman,  would you compel a woman to search her and touch her penis? 
 

Oh, and is Caitlyn a TERF?  She was the most famous trans women and even the best woman a few months ago.  

To answer your question - short answer: no. Better answer: it would be a failure of management for that to ever become an issue. That exact situation should have been anticipated and what to do discussed with staff. I'd also suggest that if staff carry out body cavity searches, there is a good chance that some won't be bothered.

 

Caitlyn Jenner voted for Trump - says it all.

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, mars said:

To answer your question - short answer: no. Better answer: it would be a failure of management for that to ever become an issue. That exact situation should have been anticipated and what to do discussed with staff. I'd also suggest that if staff carry out body cavity searches, there is a good chance that some won't be bothered.

 

Caitlyn Jenner voted for Trump - says it all.

Why would you suggest that?  What are you basing it on? I’d suggest that you have absolutely no idea.  A women shouldn’t be put in a position where she’s asked if she’s ok touching a mans cock.  It’s amazing what people will contort into to indulge men’s wishes. 
 

So if she’s voted Biden she wouldn’t be a TERF? Not being on the left means you can’t be truly trans?  Weird.  

[Moo]

15 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Why would you suggest that?  What are you basing it on? I’d suggest that you have absolutely no idea.  A women shouldn’t be put in a position where she’s asked if she’s ok touching a mans cock.  It’s amazing what people will contort into to indulge men’s wishes. 
 

Would a woman be compelled legally to touch a cock in the situation you describe?

 

I would imagine there are other situations where a woman is expected to touch cocks, for example in the medical profession perhaps?

 

[Rico1304]

7 minutes ago, Moo said:

Would a woman be compelled legally to touch a cock in the situation you describe?

 

I would imagine there are other situations where a woman is expected to touch cocks, for example in the medical profession perhaps?

 

Yes. because TWAW and not doing it is not doing your job.  This is where the whole thing falls apart. Trans women aren’t women so trying to apply the usual rules is bollocks (unintended pun)

 

Yes, a doctor would likely be expected.  But they know that when they start. Women, working in women’s prisons could naturally expect to never have to touch one at work.  
 

Here you go;

 

https://www.keep-prisons-single-sex.org.uk/searching-transgender-prisoners

 

 

 

[Moo]

21 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Yes. because TWAW and not doing it is not doing your job.  This is where the whole thing falls apart. Trans women aren’t women so trying to apply the usual rules is bollocks (unintended pun)

 

Yes, a doctor would likely be expected.  But they know that when they start. Women, working in women’s prisons could naturally expect to never have to touch one at work.  

 

 

 

Whatever your feelings on TWAW and self ID etc (and I have sympathy with some of the arguments re sports and safe spaces) - if it's the case that people with cocks can be placed in a female prison then I'd imagine a woman working there should probably anticipate that at some point they may have to touch a cock, as they do in the medical profession (I don't think it just applies to doctors).  I know there's a difference in the nature of the work, but if it becomes accepted as part of the job would that be so controversial?  

I think whether someone with a cock should be placed in a female prison is a different, albeit related, question.

[Ranxerox]

3 minutes ago, Moo said:

Whatever your feelings on TWAW and self ID etc (and I have sympathy with some of the arguments re sports and safe spaces) - if it's the case that people with cocks can be placed in a female prison then I'd imagine a woman working there should probably anticipate that at some point they may have to touch a cock, as they do in the medical profession (I don't think it just applies to doctors).  I know there's a difference in the nature of work, but if it becomes accepted as part of the job would that be so controversial?  

I think whether someone with a cock should be placed in a female prison is a different, albeit related, question.

A friend of mine is a female corrections guard in our Federal system, she is one tough cookie and has always been clear she can do anything a male guard can do. I would expect most female CO's would be insulted by the idea they'd not be up to this. 

 

Rico obviously pines for simpler days lake the mid-Victorian era I'm guessing. 

[Rico1304]

11 minutes ago, scottthecanuck said:

A friend of mine is a female corrections guard in our Federal system, she is one tough cookie and has always been clear she can do anything a male guard can do. I would expect most female CO's would be insulted by the idea they'd not be up to this. 

 

Rico obviously pines for simpler days lake the mid-Victorian era I'm guessing. 

Oh yes, look at me the Victorian prude. Fucking idiot. 
 

Ask your mate then. 
 

These two women should just realise they are Victorian prudes.  Fucking terfs.  Your arrogance is astounding 

 

This week, he insisted on being strip-searched by female warders instead of male.  The women gritted their teeth and did what they were told on the first day.  But on the next shift, they refused point blank.  Nobody blames them.  Burns is creepy and quite clearly a man so there’s no reason why professional warders should have to go along with this fantasy.” (Jane Hamilton, Mirror, 1 April 2016)

[Ranxerox]

19 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Oh yes, look at me the Victorian prude. 
 

 

 

If the lace up boot fits...

[mars]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

Why would you suggest that?  What are you basing it on? I’d suggest that you have absolutely no idea.  A women shouldn’t be put in a position where she’s asked if she’s ok touching a mans cock.  It’s amazing what people will contort into to indulge men’s wishes. 
 

So if she’s voted Biden she wouldn’t be a TERF? Not being on the left means you can’t be truly trans?  Weird.  

While not in any way the same situation, the school I worked at avoided potential problems when two Y11 transitioned by anticipating potential issues and acting to avoid them: unisex toilets were set up, new changing rooms created, sports options discussed. It was great management and this is what I am basing my answer on - I assume management at a prison will discuss this with staff before it is an issue. As for not touching men's cocks, aren't you forgetting that nurses do it on a daily basis.

 

Trump is a misogynist so I have little respect for Jenner for voting for him. Since she voted for a misogynist she cannot be called a feminist and therefore cannot be a TERF. Or are feminists OK about being grabbed by the pussy?

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, mars said:

While not in any way the same situation, the school I worked at avoided potential problems when two Y11 transitioned by anticipating potential issues and acting to avoid them: unisex toilets were set up, new changing rooms created, sports options discussed. It was great management and this is what I am basing my answer on - I assume management at a prison will discuss this with staff before it is an issue. As for not touching men's cocks, aren't you forgetting that nurses do it on a daily basis.

 

Trump is a misogynist so I have little respect for Jenner for voting for him. Since she voted for a misogynist she cannot be called a feminist and therefore cannot be a TERF. Or are feminists OK about being grabbed by the pussy?

FFS nurses now it’s going to be part of the fucking job when they start and it’s part of a medical procedure.  There’s never been nurses or doctors just for men until perhaps they decide to specialise.  But a woman, joining the PRISON service and working in a women’s prison won’t have had to touch a cock.  This isn’t medical it’s security.  How anyone can reasonably say ‘it’s their job’ when they didn’t sign up to it is beyond me.  Imagine changing the job description so drastically and thinking that the women should be ok with it. 
 

You simply can’t conflate medical jobs with these in security.  
 

Emperor’s new clothes.  

[Rico1304]

12 minutes ago, mars said:

While not in any way the same situation, the school I worked at avoided potential problems when two Y11 transitioned by anticipating potential issues and acting to avoid them: unisex toilets were set up, new changing rooms created, sports options discussed. It was great management and this is what I am basing my answer on - I assume management at a prison will discuss this with staff before it is an issue. As for not touching men's cocks, aren't you forgetting that nurses do it on a daily basis.

 

Trump is a misogynist so I have little respect for Jenner for voting for him. Since she voted for a misogynist she cannot be called a feminist and therefore cannot be a TERF. Or are feminists OK about being grabbed by the pussy?

Another man telling women what they can and can’t be.  
 

What if you are a feminist who is scared women’s places will be turned over to men if Biden got in?  Are they no longer feminists?   

[Ranxerox]

3 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

 But a woman, joining the PRISON service and working in a women’s prison won’t have had to touch a cock.

This is beginning to border on the clinical. "Touch a cock" has become your rallying cry. I think you should have banners, t-shirts, and a hashtag if you really want to get traction. 

[Jose Jones]

You can't show any sympathy to someone who feels trapped in the wrong gender, because inevitably it will lead to someone having to touch a cock.

[Lee909]

What the fuck is going on with this thread. 

[Aventus]

4 hours ago, Lee909 said:

What the fuck is going on with this thread. 

Rico is jealous that women are touching transgender prisoners cocks and not his. 

[mars]

8 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

FFS nurses now it’s going to be part of the fucking job when they start and it’s part of a medical procedure.  There’s never been nurses or doctors just for men until perhaps they decide to specialise.  But a woman, joining the PRISON service and working in a women’s prison won’t have had to touch a cock.  This isn’t medical it’s security.  How anyone can reasonably say ‘it’s their job’ when they didn’t sign up to it is beyond me.  Imagine changing the job description so drastically and thinking that the women should be ok with it. 
 

You simply can’t conflate medical jobs with these in security.  
 

Emperor’s new clothes.  

You are assuming it is not now part of the job description - obviously after discussion with union reps so that those who object can be catered for. Also, carrying out a full body cavity search will be part of the job description for some, so I suggest that not all prison staff will be as outraged as you make out.

 

As for women voting for Trump, they might self identify as feminists but I don't accept that they are real feminists if they are prepared to vote for an overtly misogynistic male. 

[Rico1304]

24 minutes ago, mars said:

You are assuming it is not now part of the job description - obviously after discussion with union reps so that those who object can be catered for. Also, carrying out a full body cavity search will be part of the job description for some, so I suggest that not all prison staff will be as outraged as you make out.

 

As for women voting for Trump, they might self identify as feminists but I don't accept that they are real feminists if they are prepared to vote for an overtly misogynistic male. 

So, you accept that a man can declare he’s a woman without any issue, have all the rights and protections that a woman enjoys just on his word...but can’t accept a woman can be conservative and be a feminist.  Can you see the problem here?  I very much doubt it. 

[Rico1304]

30 minutes ago, mars said:

You are assuming it is not now part of the job description - obviously after discussion with union reps so that those who object can be catered for. Also, carrying out a full body cavity search will be part of the job description for some, so I suggest that not all prison staff will be as outraged as you make out.

 

As for women voting for Trump, they might self identify as feminists but I don't accept that they are real feminists if they are prepared to vote for an overtly misogynistic male. 

Did you read the article I posted?  You can’t have. 
 

“Who does the searching?

Male prisoners are searched by men.  Females are searched by women.  Searching takes place out of sight of the opposite sex.  The reasons for this are self-evident.”

[redheart]

39 minutes ago, mars said:

You are assuming it is not now part of the job description - obviously after discussion with union reps so that those who object can be catered for. Also, carrying out a full body cavity search will be part of the job description for some, so I suggest that not all prison staff will be as outraged as you make out.

 

As for women voting for Trump, they might self identify as feminists but I don't accept that they are real feminists if they are prepared to vote for an overtly misogynistic male. 

As opposed to a man who is creepy with women?

 

I am not sure that there was a safe feminist vote in the US presidential election

[mars]

1 hour ago, redheart said:

As opposed to a man who is creepy with women?

 

I am not sure that there was a safe feminist vote in the US presidential election

Point taken!

[mars]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

So, you accept that a man can declare he’s a woman without any issue, have all the rights and protections that a woman enjoys just on his word...but can’t accept a woman can be conservative and be a feminist.  Can you see the problem here?  I very much doubt it. 

But that's not what I said - I specifically identified Trump. I would have no problem with a self-identified feminist voting for, say, Mitt Romney. But to vote for someone who the evidence strongly suggests has abused women? The problem with this forum is that it seems to have few active female posters. It would be good to get a different perspective on these matters.

 

As for reading articles, I try but often I find that a quick internet search reveals issues with them. That article from The Critic is a prime example. It seems to support Tricia#IstandwithMaya and condemns the Royal Society of Biology but if my understanding is correct (it might not be!), the RSB wasn't responding to just what had been tweeted about biological sex but other tweets that some saw as transphobic. It annoyed me that the article implied the RSB was only responding to what Tricia said about biological sex. 

[General Dryness]

COCK THREAD

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, mars said:

But that's not what I said - I specifically identified Trump. I would have no problem with a self-identified feminist voting for, say, Mitt Romney. But to vote for someone who the evidence strongly suggests has abused women? The problem with this forum is that it seems to have few active female posters. It would be good to get a different perspective on these matters.

 

As for reading articles, I try but often I find that a quick internet search reveals issues with them. That article from The Critic is a prime example. It seems to support Tricia#IstandwithMaya and condemns the Royal Society of Biology but if my understanding is correct (it might not be!), the RSB wasn't responding to just what had been tweeted about biological sex but other tweets that some saw as transphobic. It annoyed me that the article implied the RSB was only responding to what Tricia said about biological sex. 

Hold on.  The election was a two horse race, it was either Biden or Trump.  
 

Trump is (IMO) a serial sexual abuser

Biden will implement (and has started) policies that many women feel will put thousands of women at risk of serious sexual assault and rape.  
 

Now, given those options is it not reasonable to vote for Trump?  The least shit option. 
 

And no comment on the fact women PO’s never have to strip search men now?  

[mars]

34 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Hold on.  The election was a two horse race, it was either Biden or Trump.  
 

Trump is (IMO) a serial sexual abuser

Biden will implement (and has started) policies that many women feel will put thousands of women at risk of serious sexual assault and rape.  
 

Now, given those options is it not reasonable to vote for Trump?  The least shit option. 
 

And no comment on the fact women PO’s never have to strip search men now?  

I've answered the PO question, Rico - it is a management issue and I have already said that this needs to be discussed with staff; an accommodation would need to be made for POs who object. However, looks like I'm misinformed:

"Prison officers are not allowed to conduct intimate searches." 

http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/ForPrisonersFamilies/PrisonerInformationPages/Searchingoftheperson

 

Also: Searching arrangements for transgender people in prison

 

Annex H includes searching arrangements for transgender people in prison.

It states that a voluntary agreement should be put in place as to how this should be done.

If you have applied for or have obtained legal recognition of the gender with which you identify you must be searched in accordance with this unless alternative arrangements are agreed.

Searches must not be conducted to determine gender.

 

So I'm guessing that the prison doctor would be the best option? Of course this is for the UK. America is different and stories like this suggest that the system needs to address how searching is carried out

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/nyregion/strip-search-new-york-city-jails-lawsuits.html

 

This article suggests that "strip searches" are often carried out by medical staff, and in fact CT scanners have been used:

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2019/apr/2/strip-and-body-cavity-searches-looking-contraband-all-wrong-places/

 

As for the USA election, find me the part in this that says men will be allowed to self ID as women

https://joebiden.com/lgbtq-policy/

(I have read most of it but also did a search for ID and self - no results). I can't see anything in there that puts women at risk. 

And you have to factor in Kamala Harris. Here are some choice quotes from Trump's VP

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/mike-pence-women-quotes-kamala-harris-debate-b724539.html

 

The 2020 election must have been horrible for conservative feminists but I reject your claim that Trump was the lesser of two evils.