Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Karl_b]

On 02/04/2021 at 08:39, Section_31 said:

Don't the yanks put zips on the wrong side, pretty sure I've got a Nike top like that. It's probably in the sixth amendment or some shit.

Yep, I have a [men's] waterproof from the US and the zip is on the wrong side.

 

Isn't the reason that men's and women's zips are different here because historically men dressed themselves but women had their zips done up for them, so they were the "correct" way round for the person doing it for them? They've just never been adapted since.

[Bruce Spanner]

10 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Where do you stand on the Trans Women are Women issue? 

 

I have four trans friends, one of whom I consider one of my closest friends, you'd love her if you met her, but she's a biological female who doesn't conform to stereotypes, so unusual.

 

I know several others, and am pissed off by them because I'm confused, frustrated, protective of them and all in all, just not really bothered by it because it surrounds me (London darling).

 

They are what they are, like me and you, and it's non of my fucking business in truth how they choose to live their lives or who they choose to kiss goodnight.

 

The more extreme end or the argument?

 

That needs to be addressed by better people than me and thee.

 

 

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

I have four trans friends, one of whom I consider one of my closest friends, you'd love her if you met her, but she's a biological female who doesn't conform to stereotypes, so unusual.

 

I know several others, and am pissed off by them because I'm confused, frustrated, protective of them and all in all, just not really bothered by it because it surrounds me (London darling).

 

They are what they are, like me and you, and it's non of my fucking business in truth how they choose to live their lives or who they choose to kiss goodnight.

 

The more extreme end or the argument?

 

That needs to be addressed by better people than me and thee.

 

 

Who they kiss goodnight has no baring on anything.  How they live their lives has little impact on anyone else either. 

[Bruce Spanner]

8 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Who they kiss goodnight has no baring on anything.  How they live their lives has little impact on anyone else either. 

 

So, why are you concerned then?

[Rico1304]

14 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

So, why are you concerned then?

Why am I concerned when I see a completely crazy ideology trying to push through changes that impact on half the population, that lead to more women being raped, that remove common sense and destroy the hard fought rights of women? Oh, it’s because I’m a cunt. 
 

Man, I forgot the bit about experimenting on kids bodies.  I mean, remiss of me really.  

[Bruce Spanner]

30 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Why am I concerned when I see a completely crazy ideology trying to push through changes that impact on half the population, that lead to more women being raped, that remove common sense and destroy the hard fought rights of women? Oh, it’s because I’m a cunt. 
 

Man, I forgot the bit about experimenting on kids bodies.  I mean, remiss of me really.  

 

That strawmanning does you no favours, and in truth, you're better than this.

 

Anyway, enjoy what ever projection of reality you're subscribing to as it's not the lived one, only the hyper accentuated 'must have a problem with something one' that is overly pervasive with people choosing how to tell others how to get on with their own lives.  

 

 

[A Red]

14 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

That strawmanning does you no favours, and in truth, you're better than this.

 

Anyway, enjoy what ever projection of reality you're subscribing to as it's not the lived one, only the hyper accentuated 'must have a problem with something one' that is overly pervasive with people choosing how to tell others to get on with their own lives.  

 

 

 

Do you actually talk like this in real life?

 

 

 

 

 

[Rico1304]

16 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

That strawmanning does you no favours, and in truth, you're better than this.

 

Anyway, enjoy what ever projection of reality you're subscribing to as it's not the lived one, only the hyper accentuated 'must have a problem with something one' that is overly pervasive with people choosing how to tell others to get on with their own lives.  

 

 

Thanks for the affirmation, it means a lot.  
 

I suppose I’m equally able to tell you to enjoy your ‘London bubble’ whilst all the evidence about GIDS, puberty blockers and the simple fact 88% of GD kids end up resolving their issues is labelled transphobic.  

[Captain Turdseye]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

And then it happens.  1:50 people in women’s prisons are men. In the general population it’s over 1:4000.

1 in 4000 people in the general population are men? Is it any wonder loads of us want to be birds? Just trying to be like everybody else. 

[cloggypop]

24 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

you're better than this

 

 

Is he fuck. 

[Bruce Spanner]

7 hours ago, A Red said:

 

Do you actually talk like this in real life?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, of course.

 

Usuallly punctuated with cunt every now and again.

[Lee909]

I don't generally read this thread. Is Rico actually claiming there than transgender rights and what's going on is leading to more women being raped or have I missed something earlier. Because that's straight up batshit crazy. 

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, Lee909 said:

I don't generally read this thread. Is Rico actually claiming there than transgender rights and what's going on is leading to more women being raped or have I missed something earlier. Because that's straight up batshit crazy. 

Karen White was a man put in a women’s prison. Whilst there he raped an inmate.  Now, you’d think in general that rapists wouldn’t be allowed in women’s prisons, in account of them being men.  

[Rico1304]

8 hours ago, Captain Turdseye said:

1 in 4000 people in the general population are men? Is it any wonder loads of us want to be birds? Just trying to be like everybody else. 

1 in 4000 are transgender in the general population, in prisons it’s 1 in 50.  But I guess you’d worked that out. 

[Rico1304]

Half of the trans women in prison have at least one conviction for sex offences.  Yet women only commit 5% of sex crimes. 

[John102]

Reading all these statistics must feel like when rain man went the casino. 

[Captain Turdseye]

3 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

1 in 4000 are transgender in the general population, in prisons it’s 1 in 50.  But I guess you’d worked that out. 

1 in 50 people are in prison. Got you. 

[Rico1304]

Just now, Captain Turdseye said:

1 in 50 people are in prison. Got you. 

Of those, most only do 2 days.  Which is quite lenient when you think about it.  

[SasaS]

17 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

Cool, yeah, the guy, and the situation is a fabrication.

A fabrication of what? He is a well-known right-wing or conservative commentator (calling him a philosopher is probably a tad flattering), this case (Amazon deciding not to sell the book) was pretty widely reported, the book was, according to Wikipedia already on its way to become a bestseller, so it is hardly the case of some crank nobody has heard of with off the wall crackpot ideas. They have no problem selling David Icke and I have not checked, but they also probably sell all those right wing conspiracy books and various anti-liberal crack pots. They do sell Anderson's book on same sex marriage and when you want When Harry Became Sally they offer you other titles on the subject, some of which don't look like they are particularly transgender-friendly either.

Which begs the question, are Amazon now the arbiter of where the line is of what ideas you should or should not be exposed to? It is more for the Cancel Culture or similar threads than this one, but what makes it interesting for this one is that it really seems peculiar they are more sensitive to trans issues than other ones, like same sex marriage. It seems the mike gets switched off on this pretty quick, which I don't really understand. Why has gender become such a huge and devisive issue over the past few years, I though it was relatively simple issue of civil rights for a tiny group of people, now it seems it goes much wider and deeper than that. Why is that?   

[Bruce Spanner]

37 minutes ago, SasaS said:

A fabrication of what? He is a well-known right-wing or conservative commentator (calling him a philosopher is probably a tad flattering), this case (Amazon deciding not to sell the book) was pretty widely reported, the book was, according to Wikipedia already on its way to become a bestseller, so it is hardly the case of some crank nobody has heard of with off the wall crackpot ideas. They have no problem selling David Icke and I have not checked, but they also probably sell all those right wing conspiracy books and various anti-liberal crack pots. They do sell Anderson's book on same sex marriage and when you want When Harry Became Sally they offer you other titles on the subject, some of which don't look like they are particularly transgender-friendly either.

Which begs the question, are Amazon now the arbiter of where the line is of what ideas you should or should not be exposed to? It is more for the Cancel Culture or similar threads than this one, but what makes it interesting for this one is that it really seems peculiar they are more sensitive to trans issues than other ones, like same sex marriage. It seems the mike gets switched off on this pretty quick, which I don't really understand. Why has gender become such a huge and devisive issue over the past few years, I though it was relatively simple issue of civil rights for a tiny group of people, now it seems it goes much wider and deeper than that. Why is that?   

Slightly drunk and dismissive response from me last night, don’t know enough about the guy to fully condemn. Seems like a crank though and his ideas are awful.

 

I agree with the wider point about censorship, but Amazon are a private company and can sell what they please, so if they choose not to list it that’s up to them. How does this fit in to the bigger future picture is the interesting question?

 

To lecture on morality though probably isn’t their place given their track record.
 

[mars]

The problem with When Harry became Sally is that the author has to arrive at a particular conclusion otherwise he will undermine the conclusion of his previous book that argues against same sex marriage - you can see the problem Ryan T Anderson would have with, say, Elliot Page's marriage. According to Anderson, Elliot Page - Anderson would not use that name nor the pronouns he/him or his - has a mental illness.

 

A criticism of the book is that it is based on "junk science" - allegedly Anderson cites non-peer reviewed sources and misinterprets a Swedish study into suicide amongst people who have transitioned. As I said, he has to arrive at a particular conclusion so perhaps it's not surprising he tries to cherry pick his evidence.

 

Is Amazon right to ban it? Tricky question - how would I react if a book that argued homosexuality was a mental illness and promoted gay conversion therapy was banned? Probably wouldn't lose much sleep over the decision.

[Rico1304]

Gender dysphoria is a mental illness isn’t it? 

[Pidge]

8 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Gender dysphoria is a mental illness isn’t it? 

It's a matter of mental health, due to the comorbidity with many mental illnesses (exacerbated when individuals are not able to find an identity they are comfortable with) but is not considered a mental illness itself.

 

"Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness" - Overview - Gender dysphoria - NHS (www.nhs.uk)

 

I guess it's considered more akin to autism in that it's an innate aspect of the individual, not a disorder. There may be studies that show a cause and effect relationship sometime in the future, but for now that seems reasonable to me.

[Captain Howdy]

Have to say this subject doesn’t interest me in anyway whatsoever but I see “Outraged Owen” is taking a bit of a kicking so that gets my vote. 

[Rico1304]

I’ve asked people to define ‘woman’ a few times. Seems like England Rugby have done it, ‘not quite a bloke’