Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Strontium Dog™ said:

The "loophole" only exists because of trans activism, which I think is the pertinent point here.

It’s just bad implementation. There’s no need to use these as examples of transgender issues. 

[Strontium]

5 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Had to? Accord to whom? Which country was it, because we don’t have those laws. I smell bullshit. 

 

It was in this country, the rapist was "Karen White". Everyone, prosecutors etc had to refer to "her penis" in court.

 

This is the lady in question:

 

 

3 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

It’s just bad implementation. There’s no need to use these as examples of transgender issues. 

But if you allow anyone who wants to be recognised as the opposite gender to do so, regardless of whether they have undergone any kind of physical transition, then things like this will happen.

[Bjornebye]

6 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

 

 

This is the lady in question:

 

 

 

Would 

[Captain Turdseye]

Did. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

9 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

It was in this country, the rapist was "Karen White". Everyone, prosecutors etc had to refer to "her penis" in court.

 

This is the lady in question:

 

 

But if you allow anyone who wants to be recognised as the opposite gender to do so, regardless of whether they have undergone any kind of physical transition, then things like this will happen.

But you’re not legally a female in this country just because you declare yourself one, and there’s no law saying you have to use pronouns, so where did Rico get this ‘had to’ stuff from? I don’t know who decided to let him into a woman’s prison considering he was legally a man, but that shit needs sorting out. It just needs sorting out in a way that doesn’t screw over trans people.

[Sugar Ape]

1 hour ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

But you’re not legally a female in this country just because you declare yourself one, and there’s no law saying you have to use pronouns, so where did Rico get this ‘had to’ stuff from? I don’t know who decided to let him into a woman’s prison considering he was legally a man, but that shit needs sorting out. It just needs sorting out in a way that doesn’t screw over trans people.

I remember a lot of people getting worked up over this case at the time. 
 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/transgender-activist-tara-wolf-fined-150-for-assaulting-exclusionary-radical-feminist-in-hyde-park-a3813856.html?amp

[Rico1304]

10 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

I remember a lot of people getting worked up over this case at the time. 
 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/transgender-activist-tara-wolf-fined-150-for-assaulting-exclusionary-radical-feminist-in-hyde-park-a3813856.html?amp

In Whites case he managed to convince gullible people he was a woman. I’m sure they thought they were doing the right thing.  Like all the people saying trans women are women, they want to do the right thing but there are too many consequences for real women.  Women’s prisons are full of vulnerable women, why wouldn’t manipulative men want to get in there (not you Stig). 
 

Tara wolf is now training in Thailand to become a Thai boxer.  Over there she’s fighting against men, when he gets back he’s going to fight against women.  You really couldn’t fucking make it up. 

[Bjornebye]

7 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

In Whites case he managed to convince gullible people he was a woman. I’m sure they thought they were doing the right thing.  Like all the people saying trans women are women, they want to do the right thing but there are too many consequences for real women.  Women’s prisons are full of vulnerable women, why wouldn’t manipulative men want to get in there (not you Stig). 
 

Tara wolf is now training in Thailand to become a Thai boxer.  Over there she’s fighting against men, when he gets back he’s going to fight against women.  You really couldn’t fucking make it up. 

Mate don't worry, thats exactly why ! 

[TheHowieLama]

Had to go back and rep Stronts - the loophole indeed.

[VladimirIlyich]

9 hours ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Pretty sure you’ve been involved in discussion about women dicks before, mate. You’re almost obsessed at this point. 

Chicks with Dicks,you can't beat them,or so I am told.

[Ne Moe Imya]

I know this is going to sound like something out of the 1800s in a way to many of you, and there's little reason for you to believe that I'm saying this in good faith rather than as some sort of bigoted so-and-so, but why, exactly, are we, as a society, so certain that transgenderism isn't a mental health problem?

 

What I mean is that society has basically decided at this point that anyone having sex with anyone else they want to is fine, as long as it is consensual. That part I get, and that's not at all what I'm talking about. But somehow, in the midst of giving gay and lesbian and bi people rights to do whatever they wanted to whomever they wanted, it got extended into the transgender thing, and I don't at all think they're the same issue.

 

Transgender people basically believe something about themselves that isn't true. I mean, there are exceptions with intersex genetic disorders, but that's not what I'm talking about here. What I'm talking about is a person who is born with a penis and an XY chromosome, who says that they feel like they should be a woman.

 

Well, like, with the best will in the world (and I know there are a lot of hateful people who hold this view WITHOUT the best will in the world, and I think the distinction is important)... that person is wrong. If you have a penis and an XY chromosome and a beard, then you're just NOT a woman. It's simply inaccurate, in a factual sense, to say that you are.

 

If transgenderism were about people saying "I feel like a woman" and then we, as society said to them "well, you're not, but out of respect for you we won't bring it up and if you want to dress like one and pretend, then none of us are going to mock you or make your pain worse in any way," then yeah, I'm on board for that. We would know it was a mental illness, but we would have empathy and offer treatment if it were desired, and we would definitely love the afflicted person and try to find ways to make their lives better. We might not even stand in their way if they got surgery, like the man who believed he was a lion who got surgery to implant whiskers and tattoos of lion fur. But everyone knew he wasn't actually a lion, even as they tried to ease the mental pain that came from his delusion.

 

I know that this is completely against everything we're told that we have to think about transgender people, and I wouldn't say it to one's face, because of the hurt it would cause, but since I assume there aren't any here on the boards I'm just going to be honest. I mostly just keep this opinion to myself, as it is so out of step with where everyone else is, but I really just feel like the character in Zoolander who says "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" whenever anyone around me starts talking about this.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I know this is going to sound like something out of the 1800s in a way to many of you, and there's little reason for you to believe that I'm saying this in good faith rather than as some sort of bigoted so-and-so, but why, exactly, are we, as a society, so certain that transgenderism isn't a mental health problem?

 

What I mean is that society has basically decided at this point that anyone having sex with anyone else they want to is fine, as long as it is consensual. That part I get, and that's not at all what I'm talking about. But somehow, in the midst of giving gay and lesbian and bi people rights to do whatever they wanted to whomever they wanted, it got extended into the transgender thing, and I don't at all think they're the same issue.

 

Transgender people basically believe something about themselves that isn't true. I mean, there are exceptions with intersex genetic disorders, but that's not what I'm talking about here. What I'm talking about is a person who is born with a penis and an XY chromosome, who says that they feel like they should be a woman.

 

Well, like, with the best will in the world (and I know there are a lot of hateful people who hold this view WITHOUT the best will in the world, and I think the distinction is important)... that person is wrong. If you have a penis and an XY chromosome and a beard, then you're just NOT a woman. It's simply inaccurate, in a factual sense, to say that you are.

 

If transgenderism were about people saying "I feel like a woman" and then we, as society said to them "well, you're not, but out of respect for you we won't bring it up and if you want to dress like one and pretend, then none of us are going to mock you or make your pain worse in any way," then yeah, I'm on board for that. We would know it was a mental illness, but we would have empathy and offer treatment if it were desired, and we would definitely love the afflicted person and try to find ways to make their lives better. We might not even stand in their way if they got surgery, like the man who believed he was a lion who got surgery to implant whiskers and tattoos of lion fur. But everyone knew he wasn't actually a lion, even as they tried to ease the mental pain that came from his delusion.

 

I know that this is completely against everything we're told that we have to think about transgender people, and I wouldn't say it to one's face, because of the hurt it would cause, but since I assume there aren't any here on the boards I'm just going to be honest. I mostly just keep this opinion to myself, as it is so out of step with where everyone else is, but I really just feel like the character in Zoolander who says "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" whenever anyone around me starts talking about this.

You bigoted so-and-so. <- Had to, it’s the TLW way. I appreciate the post though, so many views on this subject that aren’t directly in line with ‘just accept it and move on’ are shouted down without honest and legitimate discussion, especially on this subject. 
 

For me, it has been a difficult one to wrap my head around. There’s so much (and many... snarf) bollocks mixed into the subject that it was confusing and hard to understand. I’m not an expert, this isn’t my chosen field of speciality, but it is something I’ve looked into a little bit recently. 
 

On one hand you’ve got the very real condition of Gender Dysphoria (formerly Gender Identity Disorder) that is a result of genetic and other factors. On the other hand, you have twats trying to claim things like trans women can have periods, and all sorts of other nonsense. Trans men can have periods, at least some. Well, that’s biology not giving a fuck, and it’s because they’re still biological females. Issue is, It allows people who are actually bigoted to run with only those silly things and try to deny rights and legitimacy to trans people. There are twitter accounts dedicated to only posting the fringe crazy shit to make it look like that’s the whole story. Some posters on here do it too. It’s the same with anything they have a deep seated issue with, they only post things that reaffirm that. 
 

However, there is a significant number of people who have gender dysphoria and they deserve the respect afforded to any human. As a vulnerable set of people they deserve protection. There’s a lot of very ‘feminine’ males who transition who you’d never know were born male. For example, you’d never look at this person and think ‘yeah, whatever Barry. You’re fooling no one’. Before the transition they looked very much the same, very feminine and had been their whole life. Biology is weird, it throws up some quirks and you’re bound to get cases where people feel like they were ‘born in the wrong body’. 

If that was the entire thing, I don’t think there’d be too much of an issue. However, the extremes of this subject hurt people like the person I linked to above. There are lots of trans people who wouldn’t claim silly things about periods, because that’s biology and biology doesn’t give a fuck about your feelings. This is where the difference between biological sex and socially constructed gender roles and norms become an important distinction. 

If anybody tries to deny biology, then I’ve got an issue with it. You can’t just say you’re a female and suddenly be a female. You can say you’re a woman and adopt all the societal norms, the way you dress and act and present yourself and what you’re called, then you’re a woman (again, female and woman is different. I think you meant female in your post, so haven’t really picked up on it), especially if you’re somebody with gender dysphoria and you’ve gone through a transition. Look, if you’re in that place where you’ve cut your cock and balls off, taken hormones, and transitioned. That’s a woman. It might not be a female, but significant steps have been taken and we can surely all agree that these people are still humans and are to be treated as such. It’s when people chat absolute shit about biology that there’s an issue. 
 

One concern is legislation that is or will be created around this, and Stronts has a point where he says that radical trans activists are pushing an agenda that results in the type of thing we see with men taking the piss and pretending to be trans just to cheat the system. In the attempt to be inclusive holes are being left (snarf). That needs to be sensibly mitigated. 
 

A final thing thing I’ll say is that although there is gender dysphoria, there’s also a lot of kids being influenced by social media and the celebration and special status of being different. Watch some of the ‘coming out’ videos and the responses. It’s like a parade where somebody has gone from just a regular kid to being special and lived and celebrated. Why,l? Because you find one sex or gender more attractive than the one that others do? Who cares? Being gay, lesbian, bi, or other is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of - I’m not - but it’s also not something that makes you special. It’s gone from a recognition of a struggle to a faux parade for likes and views. And it’s influencing kids who watch it. Same with Trans stuff. A lot of it all seems forced and fake and the people who are being hurt by it are those who are genuinely going through the struggle of transitioning. And it’s going to get worse. 

 

Either way, they need support and guidance and compassion.

 

[Lario]

It seems to be a very first world problem.

 

Don't think there are many starving people in the third world thinking "I wish I was a woman".

[Bobby Hundreds]

I don't think anyone who is starving is worrying about anything other than where their next meal is coming from. That would be a very inclusive group. Worrying about anything else is frivolous when dying of hunger is on the cards.

 

[Jairzinho]

12 minutes ago, Lario said:

It seems to be a very first world problem.

 

Don't think there are many starving people in the third world thinking "I wish I was a woman".

"Is there any way my life could get even worse living here...ahh yes..."

[Red Phoenix]

I've been thinking about one of those gender certificate thingies so I can go from identifying as a Japanese Male Elf to a Japanese Female Elf but the big bald patch on the top of my head has kind of fucked that one up.

 

When I next have some cash I'll maybe see about getting a wig though and have another think about it.

[Rico1304]

31 minutes ago, Lario said:

It seems to be a very first world problem.

 

Don't think there are many starving people in the third world thinking "I wish I was a woman".

Don’t they have smaller appetites? 

[Paulie Dangerously]

18 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Yeah if I ever get sent to jail for anything I'm going to say I want to be a woman and get a move to a womans prison. 

 

If they ask me why I want to be one then I'll say I want to have babies. Why not eh 

You'd still get bummed in the showers. 

[Paulie Dangerously]

18 hours ago, Aw Geez said:

 

I identify as a lesbian woman. Does that mean that mean I can bang women in prison with my lady dick? Consensually obviously. I'm not a weirdo.

You can. If they don't want to touch your female penis you can call them TERFs and set twitter on them. 

5 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I know this is going to sound like something out of the 1800s in a way to many of you, and there's little reason for you to believe that I'm saying this in good faith rather than as some sort of bigoted so-and-so, but why, exactly, are we, as a society, so certain that transgenderism isn't a mental health problem?

 

What I mean is that society has basically decided at this point that anyone having sex with anyone else they want to is fine, as long as it is consensual. That part I get, and that's not at all what I'm talking about. But somehow, in the midst of giving gay and lesbian and bi people rights to do whatever they wanted to whomever they wanted, it got extended into the transgender thing, and I don't at all think they're the same issue.

 

Transgender people basically believe something about themselves that isn't true. I mean, there are exceptions with intersex genetic disorders, but that's not what I'm talking about here. What I'm talking about is a person who is born with a penis and an XY chromosome, who says that they feel like they should be a woman.

 

Well, like, with the best will in the world (and I know there are a lot of hateful people who hold this view WITHOUT the best will in the world, and I think the distinction is important)... that person is wrong. If you have a penis and an XY chromosome and a beard, then you're just NOT a woman. It's simply inaccurate, in a factual sense, to say that you are.

 

If transgenderism were about people saying "I feel like a woman" and then we, as society said to them "well, you're not, but out of respect for you we won't bring it up and if you want to dress like one and pretend, then none of us are going to mock you or make your pain worse in any way," then yeah, I'm on board for that. We would know it was a mental illness, but we would have empathy and offer treatment if it were desired, and we would definitely love the afflicted person and try to find ways to make their lives better. We might not even stand in their way if they got surgery, like the man who believed he was a lion who got surgery to implant whiskers and tattoos of lion fur. But everyone knew he wasn't actually a lion, even as they tried to ease the mental pain that came from his delusion.

 

I know that this is completely against everything we're told that we have to think about transgender people, and I wouldn't say it to one's face, because of the hurt it would cause, but since I assume there aren't any here on the boards I'm just going to be honest. I mostly just keep this opinion to myself, as it is so out of step with where everyone else is, but I really just feel like the character in Zoolander who says "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" whenever anyone around me starts talking about this.

 

3 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

You bigoted so-and-so. <- Had to, it’s the TLW way. I appreciate the post though, so many views on this subject that aren’t directly in line with ‘just accept it and move on’ are shouted down without honest and legitimate discussion, especially on this subject. 
 

For me, it has been a difficult one to wrap my head around. There’s so much (and many... snarf) bollocks mixed into the subject that it was confusing and hard to understand. I’m not an expert, this isn’t my chosen field of speciality, but it is something I’ve looked into a little bit recently. 
 

On one hand you’ve got the very real condition of Gender Dysphoria (formerly Gender Identity Disorder) that is a result of genetic and other factors. On the other hand, you have twats trying to claim things like trans women can have periods, and all sorts of other nonsense. Trans men can have periods, at least some. Well, that’s biology not giving a fuck, and it’s because they’re still biological females. Issue is, It allows people who are actually bigoted to run with only those silly things and try to deny rights and legitimacy to trans people. There are twitter accounts dedicated to only posting the fringe crazy shit to make it look like that’s the whole story. Some posters on here do it too. It’s the same with anything they have a deep seated issue with, they only post things that reaffirm that. 
 

However, there is a significant number of people who have gender dysphoria and they deserve the respect afforded to any human. As a vulnerable set of people they deserve protection. There’s a lot of very ‘feminine’ males who transition who you’d never know were born male. For example, you’d never look at this person and think ‘yeah, whatever Barry. You’re fooling no one’. Before the transition they looked very much the same, very feminine and had been their whole life. Biology is weird, it throws up some quirks and you’re bound to get cases where people feel like they were ‘born in the wrong body’. 

If that was the entire thing, I don’t think there’d be too much of an issue. However, the extremes of this subject hurt people like the person I linked to above. There are lots of trans people who wouldn’t claim silly things about periods, because that’s biology and biology doesn’t give a fuck about your feelings. This is where the difference between biological sex and socially constructed gender roles and norms become an important distinction. 

If anybody tries to deny biology, then I’ve got an issue with it. You can’t just say you’re a female and suddenly be a female. You can say you’re a woman and adopt all the societal norms, the way you dress and act and present yourself and what you’re called, then you’re a woman (again, female and woman is different. I think you meant female in your post, so haven’t really picked up on it), especially if you’re somebody with gender dysphoria and you’ve gone through a transition. Look, if you’re in that place where you’ve cut your cock and balls off, taken hormones, and transitioned. That’s a woman. It might not be a female, but significant steps have been taken and we can surely all agree that these people are still humans and are to be treated as such. It’s when people chat absolute shit about biology that there’s an issue. 
 

One concern is legislation that is or will be created around this, and Stronts has a point where he says that radical trans activists are pushing an agenda that results in the type of thing we see with men taking the piss and pretending to be trans just to cheat the system. In the attempt to be inclusive holes are being left (snarf). That needs to be sensibly mitigated. 
 

A final thing thing I’ll say is that although there is gender dysphoria, there’s also a lot of kids being influenced by social media and the celebration and special status of being different. Watch some of the ‘coming out’ videos and the responses. It’s like a parade where somebody has gone from just a regular kid to being special and lived and celebrated. Why,l? Because you find one sex or gender more attractive than the one that others do? Who cares? Being gay, lesbian, bi, or other is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of - I’m not - but it’s also not something that makes you special. It’s gone from a recognition of a struggle to a faux parade for likes and views. And it’s influencing kids who watch it. Same with Trans stuff. A lot of it all seems forced and fake and the people who are being hurt by it are those who are genuinely going through the struggle of transitioning. And it’s going to get worse. 

 

Either way, they need support and guidance and compassion.

 

Two great, honest posts here. 

 

It's such a difficult issue. 

[lifetime fan]

21 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Would 

And I thought I was fucked up. 

[SasaS]

8 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

A final thing thing I’ll say is that although there is gender dysphoria, there’s also a lot of kids being influenced by social media and the celebration and special status of being different. Watch some of the ‘coming out’ videos and the responses. It’s like a parade where somebody has gone from just a regular kid to being special and lived and celebrated. Why,l? Because you find one sex or gender more attractive than the one that others do? Who cares? Being gay, lesbian, bi, or other is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of - I’m not - but it’s also not something that makes you special. It’s gone from a recognition of a struggle to a faux parade for likes and views. And it’s influencing kids who watch it. Same with Trans stuff. A lot of it all seems forced and fake and the people who are being hurt by it are those who are genuinely going through the struggle of transitioning. And it’s going to get worse. 

 

Either way, they need support and guidance and compassion.

 

Someone said gender dysphoria is the new anorexia for troubled teens seeking attention.
 

[Rico1304]

http://www.transgendertrend.com/bbc-newsnight-tavistock-gids/

[Numero Veinticinco]

Oh my God. 

[Mudface]

4 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

http://www.transgendertrend.com/bbc-newsnight-tavistock-gids/

That's just horrendous, those poor kids.

[Rico1304]

On 07/06/2020 at 10:36, Moo said:

Are you being forced?  Out of interest who is forcing you?