Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Red Shift]

5 hours ago, rico1304 said:

Peterson on with Rogan tonight. 

 

 

not for the first time

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 hours ago, Red Shift said:

not for the first time

I feel like you're trying to make a point?

[Spy Bee]

Did anyone see that transgender bird on First Dates last week?

 

I would've... if I could've, but she still had a winky!

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 hours ago, cloggypop said:

Koch brothers sponsored mouthpiece. Allegedly. 

It all comes back to the Kochs on this thread.

[SasaS]

Or lack thereof...

As some kind of liberal / libertarian, I'd be surprised if the Kochs didn't give Peterson some money at some point.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

I find Peterson very fascinating and although I don't agree with everything he says, I think the vast majority of people who are disagreeing with him, are either thick as pig shit and can't understand what he's saying, or purposefully creating the most ridiculous strawmen ever to dismantle to win points from their fellow lefties.

 

Id be left of centre, definitely. But anyone who thinks he's a nazi apologist from that clip isn't really listening to him. He's a clinical psychologist. He's trying to explain HOW and WHY fellow humans could ever be stretched to do such heinous things on such a gargantuan scale. He's not saying it was ok. Or that Hitler was right. Or the Jews were bad. He's trying to see how and why it all happened.

[moof]

8 hours ago, Red Shift said:

It's pretty simple, if you have ever studied mythology re: Joseph Campbell and 'The Power Of Myth' - a huge series from the 90's that can still be viewed on YouTube. Mythological stories help us make sense of life on a deep and profound level. Rituals are the enactment of a myth.

Also, Peterson espouses  Neitzke - who famously declared 'God is dead' and then predicted Totalitarianism to replace the death of God, because 'nature abhors a vacuum', and people need something to believe in, as well as 'participating in a social hierarchy'

Peterson's whole trip seems to be 'choose your hierarchy carefully and keep the dialogue going, or the danger in a non religious world is that extreme hierarchies on both the left and the right will spring up.'

 

[moof]

4 minutes ago, ROTOQ said:

I find Peterson very fascinating and although I don't agree with everything he says, I think the vast majority of people who are disagreeing with him, are either thick as pig shit and can't understand what he's saying, or purposefully creating the most ridiculous strawmen ever to dismantle to win points from their fellow lefties.

 

Id be left of centre, definitely. But anyone who thinks he's a nazi apologist from that clip isn't really listening to him. He's a clinical psychologist. He's trying to explain HOW and WHY fellow humans could ever be stretched to do such heinous things on such a gargantuan scale. He's not saying it was ok. Or that Hitler was right. Or the Jews were bad. He's trying to see how and why it all happened.

He’s saying the German people had a thirst for genocide and Hitler was just following their demands. It’s gross, at best. 

 

Thick as pigshit... fucking bravo. 

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

2 minutes ago, moof said:

He’s saying the German people had a thirst for genocide and Hitler was just following their demands. It’s gross, at best. 

 

Thick as pigshit... fucking bravo. 

I said most people. Not anyone who disagrees with him. But he is the most criminally misrepresented person I can think of. If people disagree and come up with a counter argument, fine. But most people twist what he says and add their own shite in and say "wow, isn't be ridiculous". Exactly like you have. You can paraphrase his words more towards your own interpretation all you want, but that's not what he said.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

I must live in my own little bubble, as I have no idea who half these people are. 

[SasaS]

I don't think it's necessarily about being thick, people seem to be getting more dogmatic in their views and he manages to question some of the concepts and notions that you are apparently not supposed to discuss any more, but don't appear all that criticism-proof after all.  The totalitarian response is then not to engage with the points, but dismiss the overall (intellectual) integrity of the person making them.

The theory of cultural Marxism conspiracy for example cannot be dismissed on the grounds that the Nazis had similar theories, it comes from anti-Communist positions and all anti-Communists would have something similar, including the Nazis. You can argue against it by dismantling its claims, as Žižek tried to do in his polemic with Peterson, that what is seen as some united Marxist front does not exist on many issues, or you can look at actual numbers and influence etc. If he says something about tendencies to purposefully mould the language to prevent dissenting opinions and ultimately suppress free speech, you cannot respond to that by saying, what about his ideas on gay marriage or climate change.

Mind you, not that Peterson's fan boys are often any less dogmatic.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

24 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

I must live in my own little bubble, as I have no idea who half these people are. 

It does get a bit he said/she said at times.

 

If the Chomsky/Peterson thing is re-run as a rap-battle, a penalty shootout or a bake-off then I might bother watching it.  Until then...

[moof]

There’s no such thing as cultural Marxism 

[moof]

8 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It does get a bit he said/she said at times.

 

If the Chomsky/Peterson thing is re-run as a rap-battle, a penalty shootout or a bake-off then I might bother watching it.  Until then...

The problem is, the shit the likes of Peterson says has a real pernicious impact on the public consciousness. Even if he, himself can escape much criticism under the guise of being misrepresented or the vagueness of his arguments - they can and have been used to lend credibility to far right political conservatism. The trans stuff, the incel stuff, the climate change stuff etc. etc. This is why he needs to be invalidated as a serious voice. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Cultural Marxism isn’t really a thing, but it’s clear what they’re referring to when they say it. It’s becoming a thing, separate from the Nazi connotations, simply because people are using it as such. 

 

I partially agree that Peterson is badly misrepresented, to the point where it’s clearly a lie with pernicious intent, and from what I can tell he isn’t a particularly nasty character. That said, I also see that he is used by a quite nasty group of people to push their own agenda. But I can’t lie, I agree with quite a lot of what he says. Not everything, but a good deal of it seems common sense. 

[SasaS]

13 minutes ago, moof said:

There’s no such thing as cultural Marxism 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School#Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

[moof]

6 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School#Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

Ok, when Peterson uses ‘cultural marxism’ he’s not talking about academic critique, it’s a dog whistle - he’s talking about a communist/Jewish takeover of all media with the purpose of infecting the minds of the population. It’s literally a rehash of the cultural Bolshevism conspiracy theory created by the Nazis. 

[SasaS]

3 minutes ago, moof said:

Ok, when Peterson uses ‘cultural marxism’ he’s not talking about academic critique, it’s a dog whistle - he’s talking about a communist/Jewish takeover of all media with the purpose of infecting the minds of the population. It’s literally a rehash of the cultural Bolshevism conspiracy theory created by the Nazis. 

 

I probably don't follow him that closely as you obviously do, in interviews I read when he was talking about Cultural Marxism he was mostly talking about Foucault and what they now usually call "postmodernism", which is a fairly widespread theory / trope on the right and not only on the right (the influence of Foucault and what came after him such as Frankfurt School on Western culture).
 

[Red Shift]

7 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I feel like you're trying to make a point?

Just acknowledging that Joe likes him on the show.

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

Just acknowledging that Joe likes him on the show.

Yeah, he’s pretty popular at the moment. That said, he’s a million miles away from being as much of a regular as others. Even Abby Martin has been on more. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Peterson should have stuck to cricket and left the politics to Campbell.

[Red Shift]

3 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Cultural Marxism isn’t really a thing, but it’s clear what they’re referring to when they say it. It’s becoming a thing, separate from the Nazi connotations, simply because people are using it as such. 

 

I partially agree that Peterson is badly misrepresented, to the point where it’s clearly a lie with pernicious intent, and from what I can tell he isn’t a particularly nasty character. That said, I also see that he is used by a quite nasty group of people to push their own agenda. But I can’t lie, I agree with quite a lot of what he says. Not everything, but a good deal of it seems common sense. 

I think it’s fair to say that anybody who challenges the far left, is going to be championed (partially) by the far right - proving Peterson’s point, that playing identity politics is dangerous.

 

It’s easy to spot far right behavior, but I think he’s saying (I could be wrong) that it’s not so easy to spot Marxist behavior, which is why he constantly repeats that he agrees with ‘equality of opportunity, but NOT with equality of outcome.’

 

He makes a valid point that in the race to tear down capitalism on the grounds of inequality, it might be a case of ‘out of the frying pan & into the fire’ or rather, the Gulag.

[Rico1304]

22 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

Just acknowledging that Joe likes him on the show.

He’s said in the past he’s a very close friend.  I like Rogan, don’t agree with everything he says but he seems like a nice guy.  Obviously some on here think he’s alt right.  

[Numero Veinticinco]

28 minutes ago, rico1304 said:

Obviously some on here think he’s alt right.  

Name. Them.

[moof]

40 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

I think it’s fair to say that anybody who challenges the far left, is going to be championed (partially) by the far right - proving Peterson’s point, that playing identity politics is dangerous.

 

It’s easy to spot far right behavior, but I think he’s saying (I could be wrong) that it’s not so easy to spot Marxist behavior, which is why he constantly repeats that he agrees with ‘equality of opportunity, but NOT with equality of outcome.’

 

He makes a valid point that in the race to tear down capitalism on the grounds of inequality, it might be a case of ‘out of the frying pan & into the fire’ or rather, the Gulag.