Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Sugar Ape]

8 minutes ago, Seasons said:

I don't work within the legal framework so how a crime would be reported/actioned with regards to self-ID/trans (pre/post-op) isn't something I have expertise in. It would however be obvious that more sexual assaults are committed by those of the opposite gender due to the probability of there being a higher ratio of heterosexuals to homosexuals. 

 

However, the emphasise of relevance comes to a security issue rather than whether the someone has a penis or not. Same-sex and opposite-sexual violence happens within certain spaces, how you'd manage someone abusing that system is something that should be debated with regards to how that's managed. For instance, if anyone could easily change their gender, why could they not then change their nationality, race etc - there's clearly a need for a framework and process to reduce risk. 

 

Some good points. There need to be checks and balances clearly, and if the current system of being diagnosed with gender dysphoria and getting a GRC certificate seems overly oppressive then allowing people to legally change their sex based on self ID goes too far the other way in my opinion.

 

Your comment on people potentially changing their race reminded me of the case of Rachel Dolezal in America who was a rights activist for black people and pretended she was black while being solely of white ancestry and still states she identifies as a black person. Not sure how you are supposed to respond to that situation. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal?wprov=sfti1

[Sugar Ape]

Went down a  bit of a rabbit hole there and apparently being Transracial is a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transracial_(identity)

 

Which led me to Martina Big who has had injections to turn her into a black woman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martina_Big

 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Oh my days. 

[SasaS]

1 hour ago, Sugar Ape said:

Went down a  bit of a rabbit hole there and apparently being Transracial is a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transracial_(identity)

 

Which led me to Martina Big who has had injections to turn her into a black woman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martina_Big

 

 

 

And that poor Dolezal woman was ridiculed.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

She lied about a lot though.

[SasaS]

She was just ahead of her time with that too. Poor, poor woman.

 

[VladimirIlyich]

5 hours ago, cloggypop said:

Transsexuals seem to spend a lot of time hanging out in the changies. 

It's their spiritual home.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

15 hours ago, Sugar Ape said:

 

Your comment on people potentially changing their race reminded me of the case of Rachel Dolezal in America who was a rights activist for black people and pretended she was black while being solely of white ancestry and still states she identifies as a black person. Not sure how you are supposed to respond to that situation. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal?wprov=sfti1

That always reminds me of Michelle Wolf saying that when she was a kid she looked like a combination of both Annies.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155207457351800&id=7976226799&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&_rdr

 

More proof (as if it were needed) that the whole idea of categorising people according to "race" has always been bullshit.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

15 hours ago, Sugar Ape said:

Went down a  bit of a rabbit hole there and apparently being Transracial is a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transracial_(identity)

 

Which led me to Martina Big who has had injections to turn her into a black woman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martina_Big

 

 

She clearly has some psychological issues.  Now, should we try and work through them, or should we just take all her money to inject her with boot polish and strap a bouncy castle to her chest?

 

'Murica.

 

I love the NHS.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

16 hours ago, Seasons said:

However, the emphasise of relevance comes to a security issue rather than whether the someone has a penis or not. Same-sex and opposite-sexual violence happens within certain spaces, how you'd manage someone abusing that system is something that should be debated with regards to how that's managed. For instance, if anyone could easily change their gender, why could they not then change their nationality, race etc - there's clearly a need for a framework and process to reduce risk. 

In the UK, at least, there are frameworks and processes around gender reassignment.  These are (as far as I understand it), quite rightly, focused on protecting the individual who is transitioning. The favourite spectre raised by transphobes - of a predatory man putting a frock on and gaining a legal right to hang around women's toilets - doesn't get a mention; and nor should it, it's bullshit.  The UK processes are focused on ensuring that people only transition if they're absolutely sure it's right. This sets high hurdles in the way for trans people, but it reduces the risk of people subsequently regretting having transitioned. It's a tricky balance to get right and that's where the most important debates are to be had.

 

(PS - Changing nationality is much easier and much more common than changing gender.)

[Hades]

22 hours ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you're advocating, namely having a wider discussion about this and not jumping to cry bigotry, I have a bit of a problem with the "feeling uncomfortable" argument. It's natural to feel uncomfortable with anything that isn't familiar, and it isn't necessarily a sign that something shouldn't be allowed or is a threat. There were similar instances of people feeling uncomfortable when asked to mix with other races or those of a different sexuality. Obviously safety concerns are to be taken seriously, but to me it seems a touch reminiscent of when gay men were seen as a threat to children, and potential paedophiles.

 

I'm not advocating an anything goes attitude, where we all share communal facilities and wave our bits about, but I'm always a little wary when the crux of an argument is a lack of comfort with an idea. We can't change our gut reactions (I still get a bit weirded out seeing two blokes kissing), but we can change how that manifests itself in our actions and acceptance of others.

Feeling uncomfortable is a natural response that has been honed over billions of years to ensure survival. It is the current society that is unnatural. We are designed to live in small, homogenous tribes filled with relatives surviving against a natural environment. The current environment is facilitating all kinds of unnatural behaviour and making it incredibly stressful and impersonal. Unless we evolve as a species through transhumanism or return to hunter-gatherer ways because of some natural disaster, ethics should be based around the feelings of the masses. We weren't designed to be robots that accept every single outside threat.

[Oh Buoy]

3 hours ago, Hades said:

Feeling uncomfortable is a natural response that has been honed over billions of years to ensure survival. It is the current society that is unnatural. We are designed to live in small, homogenous tribes filled with relatives surviving against a natural environment. The current environment is facilitating all kinds of unnatural behaviour and making it incredibly stressful and impersonal. Unless we evolve as a species through transhumanism or return to hunter-gatherer ways because of some natural disaster, ethics should be based around the feelings of the masses. We weren't designed to be robots that accept every single outside threat.

Hade's Social Psychology 101, Lesson 1: We're all trans or we're doomed and stressed. 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Some information and stuff from Stonewall. 

 

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/our-work/campaigns/come-out-trans-equality

[moof]

Easy to forget we’re talking about people’s actual right to exist as some kind of “threat”. 

[Ne Moe Imya]

5 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The UK processes are focused on ensuring that people only transition if they're absolutely sure it's right. This sets high hurdles in the way for trans people, but it reduces the risk of people subsequently regretting having transitioned. It's a tricky balance to get right and that's where the most important debates are to be had.

I was very intrigued by the videos a few pages back from a couple of people with a lot of experience in the field talking specifically about the issue of kids transitioning.

 

It seems utterly bizarre to me that you'd let a 14-year old say they're transgendered and then go for surgery and puberty blockers (which can all have a massive effect on health long-term, especially fertility) without so much as informing the parents what's going on! Had no idea it had gotten to that point.

 

You can argue for balance and whatever but I think almost any objective observer would say that's a terrible idea and sure to massively backfire in the long run.

[moof]

7 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I was very intrigued by the videos a few pages back from a couple of people with a lot of experience in the field talking specifically about the issue of kids transitioning.

 

It seems utterly bizarre to me that you'd let a 14-year old say they're transgendered and then go for surgery and puberty blockers (which can all have a massive effect on health long-term, especially fertility) without so much as informing the parents what's going on! Had no idea it had gotten to that point.

 

You can argue for balance and whatever but I think almost any objective observer would say that's a terrible idea and sure to massively backfire in the long run.

I think that’s illegal in this country, isn’t it? 

[moof]

This is just some good, healthy incitement to panic. What’s the worry? 

[Oh Buoy]

Get them willies away from our daughters! 

 

NO DICKS ALLOWED! NO DICKS ALLOWED! 

[SasaS]

Are FPFW a genuine feminist group or a front for something else?

[Rico1304]

If a man identifies as a woman but doesn’t transition fully, does she have to tell any bloke she may become involved with that she has a dick?  If he decides not to take it further is he transphobic?  

[Oh Buoy]

5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Are FPFW a genuine feminist group or a front for something else?

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/41-per-cent-trans-transgender-trans-women-prisoners-sex-offenders-false-study-statistic-this-is-why-a8072431.html

 

This was an article from November 2017 that highlights how the group interpreted statistics for their own agenda. 

[moof]

10 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Are FPFW a genuine feminist group or a front for something else?

They’re a hate group 

[SasaS]

Neither would discredit them as a feminist group though.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

19 minutes ago, rico1304 said:

If a man identifies as a woman but doesn’t transition fully, does she have to tell any bloke she may become involved with that she has a dick?  If he decides not to take it further is he transphobic?  

Best just to wait until it comes up.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

24 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Are FPFW a genuine feminist group or a front for something else?

Their concern for child safety seems about as legit as Yaxley-Lennon's.