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Trent Alexander-Arnold

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20 minutes ago, Aventus said:

Yeah I've read that too, it's a low percentage move so most of the time all you achieve is conceding possession and leaving yourself open to counter attacks. 

 

If you've got the players to do it then it's a great gamble to take because first of all they might score, and secondly because the defence thinks you might score they'll want to quickly close the player down, dragging them out of position and creating space to make the short pass instead of the shot. 

 

As it stands the opposition has no problem with us having as much of the ball as we want outside of the box, because there's next to no danger of us having the shot, and when we do it goes wide anyway.

 

We're wasting the opportunity to give the defence something to think about, a dimension of the game that we're completely neglecting. 

We have scored 4 this season from outside the box, 14 last year, 5 the year before. Leeds and Leicester are top this season with 12 each.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Aventus said:

Yeah I've read that too, it's a low percentage move so most of the time all you achieve is conceding possession and leaving yourself open to counter attacks. 

 

If you've got the players to do it then it's a great gamble to take because first of all they might score, and secondly because the defence thinks you might score they'll want to quickly close the player down, dragging them out of position and creating space to make the short pass instead of the shot. 

 

As it stands the opposition has no problem with us having as much of the ball as we want outside of the box, because there's next to no danger of us having the shot, and when we do it goes wide anyway.

 

We're wasting the opportunity to give the defence something to think about, a dimension of the game that we're completely neglecting. 


 Very good post!

 

Give a player like Gerrard a good shooting opportunity from 20–25 yards, and he’ll have a go 10 out of 10 times. And score maybe 2, 3 or 4 out of the ten. If he gets a good opportunity 25 times over a season that will give you 5-10 goals.

 

Give a player like Henderson a the same opportunity and he’ll have a go maybe 3 out of 10 times. And score maybe 1 out of 10 from the shots he actually takes. Meaning if he gets the same 25 opportunities over s seasonthe return will be maybe 1 goal if you’re lucky.

 

A massive difference, and that’s without factoring in that the opposition will put a lot of effort into closing down the willing and capable shooter, which again will create space for others.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, No2 said:

We have scored 4 this season from outside the box, 14 last year, 5 the year before. Leeds and Leicester are top this season with 12 each.

 

 

 

DeadPoorEastrussiancoursinghounds-small.gif

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Thought Trent was one of our best players tonight. Defended well. Kept up a good tempo and kept trying to create something. He looked shattered at the end. Thankfully, we don't play till Monday.

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On 14/04/2021 at 12:41, Joey8FrogsLegs said:


 Very good post!

 

Give a player like Gerrard a good shooting opportunity from 20–25 yards, and he’ll have a go 10 out of 10 times. And score maybe 2, 3 or 4 out of the ten. If he gets a good opportunity 25 times over a season that will give you 5-10 goals.

 

Give a player like Henderson a the same opportunity and he’ll have a go maybe 3 out of 10 times. And score maybe 1 out of 10 from the shots he actually takes. Meaning if he gets the same 25 opportunities over s seasonthe return will be maybe 1 goal if you’re lucky.

 

A massive difference, and that’s without factoring in that the opposition will put a lot of effort into closing down the willing and capable shooter, which again will create space for others.

 

 

1 goal would probably equal the last 3 months in the league at Anfield. Not a bad return considering. 

Sarcasm aside,an almost shoot on site policy sends a message to the opposition that you will be willing to try any way of scoring and thats important.

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3 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

1 goal would probably equal the last 3 months in the league at Anfield. Not a bad return considering. 

Sarcasm aside,an almost shoot on site policy sends a message to the opposition that you will be willing to try any way of scoring and thats important.

Yeah I think it's important. This is the problem with the statistical approach for things like this - you miss the second order effects. You have to optimise the whole, not each part. Otherwise you end up doing Charles Reep style long ball shite.

 

If you're just looking at the places on the pitch where shots are most likely to go in, then yeah, shooting from outside the box is gonna look shit compared to shooting inside the six yard box. It's too simple an analysis though. For a start it's not accounting for where the opposition are. I'd rather give up a chance inside the six yard box with the entire back four and goalkeeper on top of the striker than a shot from 20 yards under no pressure with only the goalie to beat.

 

Also, maybe if you take away all the shots from outside the box, the number of chances you get inside the six yard box goes down, perhaps because there's nothing to draw the defenders out of a low block. Problem is, you're relying on correlation to figure out the effects of shots from outside the box on how many six yard box chances you get. That sort of indirect relationship is always harder to tease out of the stats, correlation is not causation and all that.

 

It's like if you're working on a production line and you have an incredibly thorough QA team testing everything that's made to a ridiculous degree. They never find a problem because everyone on the production line is shit scared of them and takes extra care on building anything. Then some bean counter comes along, looks at the defect rate being picked up, sacks all the QA team because they're not finding anything, expecting to save a fortune, and then wonders why everything the factory makes has suddenly taken a nosedive in quality.

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4 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

1 goal would probably equal the last 3 months in the league at Anfield. Not a bad return considering. 

Sarcasm aside,an almost shoot on site policy sends a message to the opposition that you will be willing to try any way of scoring and thats important.

If we start taking more shots from outside the box defenders will have to break ranks and close down, freeing up space that we just can't seem to get at the moment. Arsenal used to do it, try and walk the ball into the net until they too got found out by sides just playing with 18 defenders in the box. 

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19 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

If we start taking more shots from outside the box defenders will have to break ranks and close down, freeing up space that we just can't seem to get at the moment. Arsenal used to do it, try and walk the ball into the net until they too got found out by sides just playing with 18 defenders in the box. 

Yep. As you and joefish have said it is more than just stats and sends a clear message to the opponents you mean business. We have some players with a cracking shot on them but they are usually scared to try. TAA's winner v Villa was a refreshing change and a great goal too.

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Back to his best again going forward. Magnificent today. I still think we should have a go at using him in midfield but for today just enjoy how well he was playing. 

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28 minutes ago, DJLJ said:

Back to his best again going forward. Magnificent today. I still think we should have a go at using him in midfield but for today just enjoy how well he was playing. 

Gary Lineker said the same, but who would he replace there?

 

In a 4-4-2 he might well be a great winger, but we don't play that.

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On 14/05/2021 at 07:46, M_B said:

Gary Lineker said the same, but who would he replace there?

 

In a 4-4-2 he might well be a great winger, but we don't play that.

We could if we had another decent right back.

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2 minutes ago, aRdja said:

We could if we had another decent right back.

How are you fitting the rest of the current players into a 442?  Assume Trent at right midfield and we've signed a right back of your choice.

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Yea I've always thought it was crazy how people want to move him to midfield when he's already far and away the best at the position he currently plays. I'm not even sure his game translates well to midfield, certainly not in the set up we currently employ. He can improve defensively but a lot of that is also on the way he's asked to play and when he has better players covering for his runs he's generally fine. Lately he's been good both ways, maybe this patch is what sees him take his defensive game to the next level even when we're at full strength around him.

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Brilliant performance yesterday. He and Thiago dictated the game, passing and creativity was first class. Could, and maybe should, have scored as well. I actually think he could have 6-8 goals in him over a season, as well as the 15+ assists he will be getting.


And not least yesterday he also saved our asses a couple of times in defence. Showed great pace, timing and determination to deny them

on a couple of occasions. 
 

 

Very close to being back at his best, he probably was there yesterday to be fair. And hopefully this season will be a valuable experience to make him an even better player.

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2 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

How are you fitting the rest of the current players into a 442?  Assume Trent at right midfield and we've signed a right back of your choice.

Alisson; Lamptey, Gomez, Van Dijk, Robertson; Trent, Thiago, Fabinho, Mane; Salah, Jota


That’d work I think. 

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According to the Athletic, it’s too little too late in Southgate’s eyes, and he’s set on his three right backs; Trippier, Walker and James. That’d be super harsh IMO. 

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Southgate isn't that stupid.

 

And if he is that stupid, he definitely isn't that brave. No way he's got the balls to not pick Trent because he knows the heat he'll get.

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Southgate doesn't fancy him, a quick look at his minutes for England tells you that. His slight and vastly over exaggerated dip in form just gave him the perfect opportunity to drop him.

 

It's shit for Trent but is great for us.Drop Hendo too and our 90% of our squad will have the summer off.

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With a proper centre back next to him, and a settled midfield, and I've no doubt we'll see Gerrard levels of performance. He's an incredibly gifted footballer - we've really hit the jackpot here.

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17 minutes ago, dave u said:

Southgate isn't that stupid.

 

And if he is that stupid, he definitely isn't that brave. No way he's got the balls to not pick Trent because he knows the heat he'll get.

Normally Id agree Dave but maybe Southgate considers he's overloaded with choices for right back?

 

I still think Trent wastes a lot of balls by not looking up before he crosses. When they're bob on, they're bob on but a few too many still sail over the bar or over everyone's head and out for a throw.

 

Still, I'll be more than made up if none of our lads make it to the Euros with their country.

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