The Partition of India

[skend04]

Nearly at the 70 year anniversary of the biggest movement of people the world has ever witnessed and many of the people old enough to remember are coming to the end of their time. I've never heard any of my grandparents talk about it and only one is still with us, but nearing the end too.

 

It's almost like a taboo, something that isn't talked about. When you read some accounts it's not hard to see why, like a national stain. Many stories that do come out are harrowing, burning trains, rape, infanticide where babies were snatched and literally thrown against walls.

 

I guess it's more in sharp focus here now because of Brexit and Empire 2.0 and how over 65s appear to think they'll be ruling the waves once again. However whereas Germany and in some ways the US have confronted their darker history, many in the UK appear to revel and romanticise their colonial past. It makes me seethe when I hear "oh we'll be okay, we ruled the world" without acknowledging it caused the death of 29 million people in India alone through manufactured famines. This is before you start looking elsewhere.

 

The more you read the more you have to conclude it was a crime against humanity, manufactured by the Empire as a way to get of India.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

[Lee909]

From what i have read of the events it sounded a terrible thing to deal with. Isn't this one if the main things the new radical Hindu's use to go after Gandhi with

[Paulie Dangerously]

 

Me when the usual swinging dicks of the TLW overseas policy police roll in 

[skend04]

From what i have read of the events it sounded a terrible thing to deal with. Isn't this one if the main things the new radical Hindu's use to go after Gandhi with

Yeah, he was assassinated barely a month after the migration had reached its end. I think there could have been any number of people that did for him, it just happened to be from the party that now is in power in India.

 

 

Me when the usual swinging dicks of the TLW overseas policy police roll in

Haha it is possibly one of the most contentious ones this. Foreign policy, Empires, Religion, inequality. I think it could be a conglomeration of all that is TLW.

[Champ]

Well, in the 5 minutes before that happens I'd just like to say that this is something that I've been pretty ignorant about have found the stuff I'very been finding out, pretty much for the first time, has been utterly appalling.

 

Whether all aspects of what happened and why will be covered I don't know but credit to the BBC for the amount of coverage that has been given in the past few weeks

[skend04]

Well, in the 5 minutes before that happens I'd just like to say that this is something that I've been pretty ignorant about have found the stuff I'very been finding out, pretty much for the first time, has been utterly appalling.

 

Whether all aspects of what happened and why will be covered I don't know but credit to the BBC for the amount of coverage that has been given in the past few weeks

The Guardian online have been pretty good too.

[Champ]

The Guardian online have been pretty good too.

Thanks. I'll take a look.

 

I was out in the car earlier and there was a programme on R4 about a group of women's experiences. It was very moving. You may not agree with Rico's politics but he is dead right about the range and quality of speech programmes provided by BBC radio

[Paul]

Nearly at the 70 year anniversary of the biggest movement of people the world has ever witnessed and many of the people old enough to remember are coming to the end of their time. I've never heard any of my grandparents talk about it and only one is still with us, but nearing the end too.

 

It's almost like a taboo, something that isn't talked about. When you read some accounts it's not hard to see why, like a national stain. Many stories that do come out are harrowing, burning trains, rape, infanticide where babies were snatched and literally thrown against walls.

 

I guess it's more in sharp focus here now because of Brexit and Empire 2.0 and how over 65s appear to think they'll be ruling the waves once again. However whereas Germany and in some ways the US have confronted their darker history, many in the UK appear to revel and romanticise their colonial past. It makes me seethe when I hear "oh we'll be okay, we ruled the world" without acknowledging it caused the death of 29 million people in India alone through manufactured famines. This is before you start looking elsewhere.

 

The more you read the more you have to conclude it was a crime against humanity, manufactured by the Empire as a way to get of India.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

I think the establishment British attitude to the history of empire is bewildering. It is fundamental to our national identity and yet it's not even on the national curriculum! Our attitudes to Brexit and immigration would be far more nuanced with a better general level of understanding about Empire.

[Red Phoenix]

While I don't agree with associating a lot of people who voted for Brexit with this, I feel especially sick when looking at this subject because of the respect I have for India (respect mainly because of Buddhism.) It took me far too long before I was aware of it and its a fucking foul set of events that has to be up there with the most sickening things our previous elitist scum governments have ever been involved in.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I think the establishment British attitude to the history of empire is bewildering. It is fundamental to our national identity and yet it's not even on the national curriculum! Our attitudes to Brexit and immigration would be far more nuanced with a better general level of understanding about Empire.

 

We can't have children knowing what the British Empire got up to mate. The empire was responsible for some of the greatest advancements in engineering and medicine but also for some of the worst crimes against others.

 

Concentration camps during the Boer wars and again in Kenya. The Amritsar massacre, Bengal famine and Partitioning of India. Slavery and the raping of Countries for their riches.

 

The British empire were every much as evil as other cunts in history, they just hide it well. 

[Paulie Dangerously]

We can't have children knowing what the British Empire got up to mate. The empire was responsible for some of the greatest advancements in engineering and medicine but also for some of the worst crimes against others.

 

Concentration camps during the Boer wars and again in Kenya. The Amritsar massacre, Bengal famine and Partitioning of India. Slavery and the raping of Countries for their riches.

 

The British empire were every much as evil as other cunts in history, they just hide it well. 

 

 

Oh, I say!

 

[setreal]

Nearly at the 70 year anniversary of the biggest movement of people the world has ever witnessed and many of the people old enough to remember are coming to the end of their time. I've never heard any of my grandparents talk about it and only one is still with us, but nearing the end too.

 

It's almost like a taboo, something that isn't talked about. When you read some accounts it's not hard to see why, like a national stain. Many stories that do come out are harrowing, burning trains, rape, infanticide where babies were snatched and literally thrown against walls.

 

I guess it's more in sharp focus here now because of Brexit and Empire 2.0 and how over 65s appear to think they'll be ruling the waves once again. However whereas Germany and in some ways the US have confronted their darker history, many in the UK appear to revel and romanticise their colonial past. It makes me seethe when I hear "oh we'll be okay, we ruled the world" without acknowledging it caused the death of 29 million people in India alone through manufactured famines. This is before you start looking elsewhere.

 

The more you read the more you have to conclude it was a crime against humanity, manufactured by the Empire as a way to get of India.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

 

Quick question: Do I still have to read all that when I have already seen Temple of Doom?

[skend04]

Quick question: Do I still have to read all that when I have already seen Temple of Doom?

Yeah, ToD only covers the latter years.

[magicrat]

We can't have children knowing what the British Empire got up to mate. The empire was responsible for some of the greatest advancements in engineering and medicine but also for some of the worst crimes against others.

 

Concentration camps during the Boer wars and again in Kenya. The Amritsar massacre, Bengal famine and Partitioning of India. Slavery and the raping of Countries for their riches.

 

The British empire were every much as evil as other cunts in history, they just hide it well. 

 

Powerful people with loud shooty things suppress and exploit weaker people. There is an element of harking back to the days of Empire from some of the Brexit loons . "Britain's place in the world " seems an obsession too,  I think our place in the world should be to keep our heads down and let the bigger boys argue the toss,  Fuck me we must annoy so many people across the globe. The gobby little runt at the back of the class always shouting out with an opinion on everything . All mouth and no trousers, 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Powerful people with loud shooty things suppress and exploit weaker people. There is an element of harking back to the days of Empire from some of the Brexit loons . "Britain's place in the world " seems an obsession too,  I think our place in the world should be to keep our heads down and let the bigger boys argue the toss,  Fuck me we must annoy so many people across the globe. The gobby little runt at the back of the class always shouting out with an opinion on everything . All mouth and no trousers, 

 

I doubt many of those who voted for Brexit would have a clue about our dark and murky past, some of it is not that old in the big scheme of things. The Mau Mau uprising in Kenya was as recent as the 50's, after the great wars. If people read up on what the British did in those camps with the Kenyan people they would be gobsmacked and disgusted, although i dare say some of the Brexit mongs would be proud. The partitioning of India was only a few years before and Cyril Radcliffe killed more people with the stroke of a pen than anybody else in history. 

 

Some Brits, especially those in power seem pretty happy to throw the 'Holier than thou' attitude at other countries, the hypocrisy is mind boggling. 

[Pureblood]

Did they use stud partition?  You don't need building regs.

[magicrat]

I doubt many of those who voted for Brexit would have a clue about our dark and murky past, some of it is not that old in the big scheme of things. The Mau Mau uprising in Kenya was as recent as the 50's, after the great wars. If people read up on what the British did in those camps with the Kenyan people they would be gobsmacked and disgusted, although i dare say some of the Brexit mongs would be proud. 

 

Some Brits, especially those in power seem pretty happy to throw the 'Holier than thou' attitude at other countries, the hypocrisy is mind boggling. 

 

Liverpool itself largely built on the profits from the slave trade . We need to be saying as little as possible about the days of Empire not indulging in nostalgic fantasies about the civilising influence of colonialism, The parallels with Brexit are there because we have never been able to accept our place in Europe since the middle ages . Centuries of punching above our weight and largely getting away with it have created a mindless arrogant elite that think we are better than everyone else and won't accept we are better off part of a Union of European states

[magicrat]

Did they use stud partition?  You don't need building regs.

The got Trump to build it 

[skend04]

Did they use stud partition? You don't need building regs.

I think you'll find that stud partitions will require building regulation approval dependant on the situation. At least Part B will need to be satisfied, Part F too. I hope you've not been telling people otherwise you scamp.

[Pureblood]

I think you'll find that stud partitions will require building regulation approval dependant on the situation. At least Part B will need to be satisfied, Part F too. I hope you've not been telling people otherwise you scamp.

 

Not back then you didn't!

[Jose Jones]

I think the establishment British attitude to the history of empire is bewildering. It is fundamental to our national identity and yet it's not even on the national curriculum! Our attitudes to Brexit and immigration would be far more nuanced with a better general level of understanding about Empire.

Deliberate isn't it?

There was no teaching of British history in Ireland either when I was at school.

At least I suppose teaching nothing about it is better than teaching propaganda.

[TheHowieLama]

On 09/08/2017 at 05:45, Lee909 said:

From what i have read of the events it sounded a terrible thing to deal with. Isn't this one if the main things the new radical Hindu's use to go after Gandhi with

 

The demolition of two mosques in India within days of each other has highlighted the deep religious divide in the country, months before voters head to the polls for a nationwide election that is expected to hand Prime Minister Narendra Modi a rare third term in power.

The twin demolitions in Uttarakhand state and Delhi came just weeks after Modi inaugurated the controversial Ram Mandir, a temple built on the foundations of a centuries-old mosque that was torn down by hardline Hindu crowds in the early 1990s.

That ceremony marked a seismic shift away from modern India’s secular founding principles and was hailed by Hindu nationalists as a crowning moment in their decades-long campaign to reshape the nation.

Deadly violence erupted in Uttarakhand’s Haldwani city last week, after government officials, accompanied by police, razed a mosque and madrassa (an Islamic school), citing “illegal encroachment.”

The clashes come one week after another madrassa, a centuries-old mosque, a Sufi shrine and dozens of Muslim graves were demolished by government authorities in Delhi, also for alleged “illegal encroachment,” prompting anger and outrage in the Indian capital.

 

Analysts say these incidents underscore an uncomfortable reality in the world’s largest democracy and fear that inter-religious tensions will increase as Modi and his Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) continue to push their populist, yet divisive, policies in the lead up to a nationwide election in just a few months’ time.

The image of India that Modi wants to project is one of a confident, vibrant, and modern superpower. But many of the country’s 230 million Muslims say they are being sidelined and marginalized in the world’s largest democracy.

“This is the worst possible time to be a Muslim in India,” said author Nilanjan Mukhopadhyay, adding that it has “become normal to demolish mosques in India.”

“The stigmatization of Muslims is an old story, seen as the new normal. No longer does it shock people.”

The mosque demolitions come against a backdrop of increased religious polarization and accusations that the BJP is building a Hindu-first state in what is constitutionally meant to be a secular country.

[Bjornebye]

On 10/08/2017 at 00:32, Jose Jones said:

Deliberate isn't it?

There was no teaching of British history in Ireland either when I was at school.

At least I suppose teaching nothing about it is better than teaching propaganda.

 

I was lucky with my history teacher who openly welcomed debate. He didn't hide his disdain for what he was teaching at times. He lost his dad (or grandad I can't remember exactly) on the Hood but not from the enemy, the backfire from a mounted gun smashed his chest to pieces. Brilliant teacher. 

 

He was the first person to open my eyes to the allied bombings in Germany (Dresden etc) and it wasn't all Germany who were horrible cunts to civilians. 

 

Britain and all it stands for is pretty fucking horrible to be honest. Entitled evil cunts like the USA and Israel. Then moan when someone sticks one back on them. 

[SasaS]

Why is the partition of India seen as something British rule is responsible for? Was it not Muslim leadership that pushed for the creation of Pakistan? Genuine question.

[TheHowieLama]

I think it is impossible to extricate Britain from any/all of India's modern history.