Watford (A) - 12:30pm, Sat 12/08/17 - The goals that ripped the Hornets' net.

[Faustus]

For all the comments about the owners- which I agree with for the most part- they're not the ones at the training ground helping us defend set pieces, are they? I love Klopp, but this is bordering on negligence.

[INTORRESTING]

Origi depresses me. He is championship at best.

[Ginny]

We'll start picking up pace again don't worry. We'll be snotting teams 4-1 soon.

[Paulie Dangerously]

Why did he take off TAA during the game of his life for Gomez who's hardly kicked a ball in 12 months? Gave away a soft free kick leading to the goal

[Bobby Hundreds]

Now I'm sober I've had time to reflect. Feel like getting pissed again. Gini My god gini was an absolute bag of shite.

[Brownie]

For all the comments about the owners- which I agree with for the most part- they're not the ones at the training ground helping us defend set pieces, are they? I love Klopp, but this is bordering on negligence.

I agree with this. I don't particularly like the owners but our defending is not down to them, it's down to the manager and Klopp is as good at organising a defence as Rodgers was.

 

As I said yesterday it will be his undoing in the end (no idea when that will be but could be sooner than we think).

[Faustus]

Exactly, Brownie. I'm very concerned that we have another Bournemouth in us. Our in game management and organisation at set pieces is non-existent. It's not even Sunday League standard because I've genuinely seen teams at that level shut down a game and protect a one goal lead far better than us. The issue with the set pieces is so fucking glaring and so easy to rectify at the same time. There's a reason why new managers go into a job and immediately focus on tightening things at the back because it's a solid base to build from and the easiest thing to instil after a couple of sessions.

 

You hear of how Tony Pulis' training sessions are absolutely brutal in how repetitive they are, but Christ, do we need something like that. One day, Klopp and the coaches getting the cones out and going 'we are not leaving until we nail this'.

 

I genuinely don't get it. Is it the manager being too clever for his good? Is it because of the player's egos (who'd presumably get the hump at being forced to do something so basic)? There's an acceptance that we'll concede the odd goal down to systemic deficiencies on account of how expansive we play and that consequently makes it all the more frustrating that we appear to neglect the one area where we have total control over the situation. It's at the stage now where not even good deliveries into the box are causing issues. The ball in for Watford's third was garbage and shouldn't have even got past the first man. It reminded me of Benteke's second against us last season, where the corner itself was utterly shite yet somehow managed to get past the first man and even bounced in the six yard box before it fell to him. Just how is this being allowed to happen?

 

For all the shit that Mourinho takes (rightfully so in a number of areas), but I think he has it sussed in packing the side full of grocks, especially in this league. We seem to be trying to reinvent the wheel while ignoring the inarguable fundamentals of the game.

[Grinch]

I agree with this. I don't particularly like the owners but our defending is not down to them, it's down to the manager and Klopp is as good at organising a defence as Rodgers was.

 

As I said yesterday it will be his undoing in the end (no idea when that will be but could be sooner than we think).

Youd be forgiven for thinking it was defence with zero investment.

 

Oh wait, it is.

[waddy78]

Moreno is not good enough.

 

You could apply that to half of the players on the pitch today.

 

And when I mean not good enough, not good enough to be at the club, let alone the fucking bench.

 

Fuck knows why Klopp hasn't fucked them off.

 

Carragher was right mate BEFORE the match kicked off, he said he didn't understand why Moreno was starting based on a decent pre-season Klopp has had him for 18 months and he got no better so why would he after 2 pre season games? same goes for Mingolet saved us at the back end of the season but cost us as much at the start of it has he changed that drastically that we don't buy a better keeper, not in my book.

 

Not sure what the deal is with the manager he appears to have money to spend he tells us that he has money to spend.... So fucking spend it, its not like there are not players out there who aren't better than (ready for it) Mingolet,Moreno,Lovren,Henderson,Gini,Karius,Milner and probably a few more I cant think of right now, for me Henderson offers energy but nothing else he doesn't lead his assists are few and far between and his goals are even rarer should be no where near the captains armband let alone actually be captain sadly I cant think of any one who is worthy of it (who would thrive in it like Carra or Gerard). Not looking forward to Tuesday as I feel Hoffenhiem are a decent side who will cause us a good few problems.

[Faustus]

 I also agree with you, Brownie, regarding your comment about Klopp's future. On the train home yesterday, the same murmurings were beginning among supporters. If we have a poor start or even, heaven forbid, get knocked out by Hoffenheim, they'll only increase. Especially if he pushes his luck and has his usual pop at the fans.

 

Personally, he gets the full length of his contract for me, barring an absolute catastrophe, as I feel he's the best option for the club and can have us punching above our weight consistently under these mingebag owners. Fans are fickle though and having heard grumbles in January time ("Getting away with murder" was one comment I overheard at half time during the Wolves game) have played some scintillating stuff the previous couple of months, they'll only increase if things are looking shaky on the pitch. I feel as though the fans ire is being directed at the wrong target in this case, so it's all the more frustrating for me when the fella clearly isn't helping himself when it comes to basic stuff like set pieces. You may as well be loading the bullets yourself for these people.

[Red House]

Moreno didn't even have that good of a pre-season. He had one good game against Bayern, but was constantly turned inside out by Mitchell Weiser in the Berlin game before that. He shouldn't even be a lfc player by now, never mind starting.

[Moo]

Carragher was right mate BEFORE the match kicked off, he said he didn't understand why Moreno was starting based on a decent pre-season Klopp has had him for 18 months and he got no better so why would he after 2 pre season games? same goes for Mingolet saved us at the back end of the season but cost us as much at the start of it has he changed that drastically that we don't buy a better keeper, not in my book.

 

Not sure what the deal is with the manager he appears to have money to spend he tells us that he has money to spend.... So fucking spend it...

When did Klopp last say there's money to spend? He could have said it yesterday for all I know, I don't pay too much attention to all the bullshit that surrounds the transfer window. I'm curious because this seems to have become the accepted line, that Klopp says there's money to spend.

[magicrat]

Moreno didn't even have that good of a pre-season. He had one good game against Bayern, but was constantly turned inside out by Mitchell Weiser in the Berlin game before that. He shouldn't even be a lfc player by now, never mind starting.

 

Correct and Gomez showed nothing much in pre-season to suggest he should be getting on the pitch in tight situations ahead of TAA. I love Klopp but he has been asleep at the wheel where our defence in concerned this summer and given he fell out with our best defender and banished him , then sold Lucas that's not easy to forgive. He has a couple of weeks to draft in some reinforcements otherwise this season has every chance of being a write off,  Utd and City haven't fucked about  all summer waiting for a couple of players that won't ever kick a ball for the club. 

[Brownie]

Youd be forgiven for thinking it was defence with zero investment.

 

Oh wait, it is.

Mate we've spent shitloads of money on defenders under these owners. It's not a lack of investment.

[Grinch]

Mate we've spent shitloads of money on defenders under these owners. It's not a lack of investment.

Sure as hell haven't under Klopp.

[waddy78]

When did Klopp last say there's money to spend? He could have said it yesterday for all I know, I don't pay too much attention to all the bullshit that surrounds the transfer window. I'm curious because this seems to have become the accepted line, that Klopp says there's money to spend.

 

Said it numerous times mate, start of the summer, during the pre-season if I remember correctly he was asked about transfers in one of the pre season games pre match interview (think it was about Keita fee) said the money was available it was just about paying the right fee for the player, he then went on about wanting number 1 targets which isn't always easy.

 

I like Klopp and I think at the moment he is the best option we have, but he does make the same mistakes over and over its becoming reminiscent of Rogers last season. at the moment we could spend £70m on VVD but I don't think it will make a difference because Fiminho for instance was told to pick up Okala at the corner just like he was told to pick up Dann at Anfield last season that comes from coaches/managers the player doesn't say I'm gonna mark him or him and that's the worrying thing firstly not spending and secondly if we spend will it change? 

[Lee909]

Mate we've spent shitloads of money on defenders under these owners. It's not a lack of investment.

Its always the excuse though and has been for years. Admittedly we cant compete with Utd,City or Chelsea financially but we have spent big plenty of times over the past 10 years and few have justified the fee. Lovren and Sakho cost over 40ml.

Are any of them better than Skrtel was

[Brownie]

Sure as hell haven't under Klopp.

That's his choice though.

[Moo]

Said it numerous times mate, start of the summer, during the pre-season if I remember correctly he was asked about transfers in one of the pre season games pre match interview (think it was about Keita fee) said the money was available it was just about paying the right fee for the player, he then went on about wanting number 1 targets which isn't always easy.

 

I like Klopp and I think at the moment he is the best option we have, but he does make the same mistakes over and over its becoming reminiscent of Rogers last season. at the moment we could spend £70m on VVD but I don't think it will make a difference because Fiminho for instance was told to pick up Okala at the corner just like he was told to pick up Dann at Anfield last season that comes from coaches/managers the player doesn't say I'm gonna mark him or him and that's the worrying thing firstly not spending and secondly if we spend will it change?

Cheers for replying but I was wondering when he last said it because it seems a while since and we appear to have completely cooled on Keita and VD? Things may have changed or worse FSG could have been, heaven forbid, lying.

[Moo]

That's his choice though.

You don't know that.

[waddy78]

Wenger had a reluctance to spend and look where that got him this season.

 

We should be buying now whilst we have the pull of CL football, IF we don't (as others have) I cant see this squad getting top 4 this season and the pull of CL goes away you now have to start looking at level 2 / 3 type players as most top players want CL that's why Sanchez will leave Arsenal this summer. I don't want us to become the blue shite happy with EL football because that's all we can hope for.

[waddy78]

Cheers for replying but I was wondering when he last said it because it seems a while since and we appear to have completely cooled on Keita and VD? Things may have changed or worse FSG could have been, heaven forbid, lying.

 

Possibly mate, I suppose we will never know for certain only Klopp and FSG will.

[Grinch]

That's his choice though.

Thats where we disagree. Common sense that he doesnt rate Mignolet. He tried to replace him. The FSGway, cheaply. So Migs is back in playing shit.

 

Moreno back starting after Milner playing out of position all season rather than dare play him. Of course all we could sign at left back was a cheap player from Hull who isnt even as good as the woeful Moreno so needs must.

 

The notion that Klopp rates these players and is sitting on a big pile of cash is crazy. Very similar to how Wenger took the flack when Arsenal were paying off the emirates. Wonder where our money is going cause it sure as fuck isn't on the team for a few seasons now. Funnily enough it coincides with the ticket price protest. I dare say cunt billionaires didn't lile being told what to do and their careful what you wish for statement only adds fuel to that firem

[Brownie]

He picks these players though. If he didn't rate Mignolet he would pick Karius instead and he wouldn't have given him a contract extension. Looks at the things he says about Mignolet; he's happy with him.

 

Look at Lovren too; another contract extension. Moreno he was going to sell but he's seemingly changed his mind after pre-season.

 

Anyone putting all of these footballing decisions on FSG is quite frankly weird.

[Brownie]

You don't know that.

Well he hasn't changed the players and hasn't moaned about it yet, so it's a reasoned and logical explanation.